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On February 28 2014 12:26 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 09:38 17Sphynx17 wrote:
What if zoro found out.mihawk had a tell/weakness on one side only to learn that he was actually already blind in one eye when he 'beat' mihawk.
And zoro in a fit of pridr could not accept his victory seeing.it as unfair and.chose to blind himself as well and told mihawk he will challenge him again some other time as he needs to bw somewhere already (end of 2 year timeskip).
I think from zoro's character, it is also a possible scenario.
We never see scars on mihawk but what if he lost use of one of his eyes in a battle which is why he agreed to become shibukai? (maybe) i'd say kizaru related battle if i were to speculate.
And zoro also wants to beat kizaru because kizaru ended up disturbing his path to becoming the best.
Their.obs haki (mihawk and zoro) would compensate for loss of vision in eye though.
Just a theory.
has Zoro ever made an excuse? when he was fighting the unicycle dude? when he was fighting Hachi after almost being killed by Mihawk? has he ever made an excuse? why would he accept one from Mihawk? regardless of any handicap mihawk may or may not have Mihawk is at the top of the totem pole even if its not the strongest he could possibly be Zoro would never go easy on him besides, observation Haki who needs eyes?
You don't get what I am saying.
I didn't mean mihawk used his eye problem (if he has one) as an excuse. I meant to say Zoro found out about the eye issue after defeating him. He then found out about the backstory behind it from Mihawk. Maybe it went along the lines of him being defeated by Kizaru (my speculation only). Hence, Mihawk is no longer the best.
Yes obs haki makes up for the loss in eyesight of one eye. But m aybe Zoro could not accept why he did not notice it before and could not accept his victory. As a way to make up for it, he also took out his eye and vowed to defeat Kizaru to take back the title from Kizaru.
Yes I know there is no announcement that Kizaru became the strongest blah blah blah, but for me,that doesn't matter much in the op verse. It is mostly symbolic and between those that really value it.
Take for example Shanks and Mihawk. Mihawk has the title presently as far as we know as the strongest swordsman. Yet we know for a fact that he and shanks duked it out 12 years prior to shanks losing his arm. If that were the case then Mihawk only got the title of strongest swordsman in the world because he didn't choose to fight with Shanks anymore which doesn't make much sense if you want a definite and clear winner in terms of the swordsman class in the op verse.
We have no inclination who one in each one of their bouts but we know there is a rivalry there. We also know Mihawk respects shanks in that he even went to see shanks to tell him about Luffy and can spends time with Shanks' crew.
So my suspicion on the matter is that Zoro defeated mihawk within the 2 year timeskip, found out about an eye problem Mihawk has after losing to another swordsman. And Zoro took out one of his eyes to show not only the world, but Mihawk that even with the eye handicap, he can beat the swordsman that beat mihawk as well to get the title of strongest swordsman in the world.
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That's kind of silly even disregarding there being no signs Mihawk has eye problems (he has hawk in his name for crying out loud). If Mihawk has a crippling weakness because he has one bad eye Zoro would not cripple himself just to make things even or to prove a point when he beats an imaginary person that beat Mihawk. Does someone need to tie one arm behind their back to face Shanks? Get a crippling disease to face Whitebeard? Even if a fighter were incredibly prideful they wouldn't cripple themselves to prove a point.
If Mihawk were really so weak that one eye injury made him not the strongest than he legitimately does not deserve the title anymore and especially if that meant time skip Zoro could beat him. More likely Zoro was just injured while training with Mihawk. Either the training was too extreme or Zoro challenged Mihawk before leaving.
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I like the theory that Zoro has alrdy defeated Mihawk and has the title now and is basically just going along with Luffy out of loyalty and for shits and giggles and to see new things.
Doubt Mihawk has some eye problem and Zoro took his eye out by choice, that just seems kinda weird. I think it's more likely that Zoro actually still has the eye but is saving it for when he really needs it ala Zaraki in Bleach or Kakashi in Naruto.
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Hence, Mihawk is no longer the best.
Mihawk is the best swordsman in the world, there is no swordsman in the world who can beat mihawk in a fight
in the entirety of the world, there is no swordsman who can beat Mihawk
if Zoro beats Mihawk, that makes him the best swordsman in the world
Kizaru is not a swordsman
Take for example Shanks and Mihawk. Mihawk has the title presently as far as we know as the strongest swordsman. Yet we know for a fact that he and shanks duked it out 12 years prior to shanks losing his arm. If that were the case then Mihawk only got the title of strongest swordsman in the world because he didn't choose to fight with Shanks anymore which doesn't make much sense if you want a definite and clear winner in terms of the swordsman class in the op verse.
or Shanks isnt considered a swordsman or is legit weaker at swordsplay then mihawk, also it doesnt matter if Mihawk fights him or not people dont consider shanks a better swordsman then Mihawk
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Here is my problem. He is the best swordsman in the world. Does that include the "new world"?
Because we already know there exists an island of samurais. Where is Mihawk's island anyway?
We've clearly seen Kizaru wield a light sword, to say he isn't a swordsman just because he chose not to mainly fight with it when we saw him fight is a bit farfetched though.
Have we even seens Shanks swordsmanship? He was a rival to Mihawk so it implies he is a swordsman. No point in the best swordsman in having a rival who is not a swordsman. It doesn't make much sense for a build-up for a character.
What if the statement was also changed. In the entirety of the OP world, there was no swordsman better than Mihawk, up until the point ? swordsman beat him.
I really think Zoro beat Mihawk already, the question is, did someone beat Zoro to the punch? Have we seen Mihawk after the timeskip as well?
Oh, and I am not hung up on the idea of Zoro sacrificing his eye. It could happen (shounen logic) or not happen. It doesn't matter to me regardless. But what if someone did beat Mihawk before Zoro did? Does that diminish the fact that Zoro managed to beat Mihawk? I say no. It is just someone has surpassed Mihawk, and he is the next logical step to Zoro's evolution in the world of One Piece to become the best.
@Black Magister - I am not saying his eye injury gave his character a handicap (if that were the case).. But if you twist it on shounen logic, you could give a character that motivation where he can't accept his victory upon finding out that the facts of the fight were unclear to him. Like Goku giving cell a senju bean so that the fight they do clash in is in their best shape and 1v1. Not saying this applies to Zoro, just saying it can apply since it is still a shounen.
It goes with this line of thinking. If mihawk legitimately won in a duel against Shanks,now people in the op-verse could say he won because Shanks only has one arm.
Like the Marineford War, Blackbeard/Akainu beating Whitebeard (in the sense of just the final blow) could be argued that it wasn't 1v1, he was not in his prime (sick), and he was already tired when faced either of them. Whatever the case, it wasn't a level playing field.
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Just for kicks I hope the reason Zoro lost his eye is really underwhelming. Like, on his way back to sabby island he was trying to fish and a spearfish jumped out the water and gouged his eye. Would completely mess with everyone who thought there was some epic backstory to it haha.
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Swordmen specialize in sword, and is their main form/way of attack. Just because Kizaru uses a sword doesnt make him a legit swordman like Mihawk/Zoro. I thought we discussed this before ?
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On February 28 2014 18:35 vndestiny wrote:
Swordmen specialize in sword, and is their main form/way of attack. Just because Kizaru uses a sword doesnt make him a legit swordman like Mihawk/Zoro. I thought we discussed this before ?
We've also had a discussion that we haven't seen Kizaru really fight seriously in any of the clashes he has been in.
We have seen him fight with a sword, but only against Rayleigh. The rest was usually with his feet.
In shounen, we have been presented a type of character who, when faced against someone he doesn't deem to be a legit threat, does not need to fight seriously and does not use his "main" weapon.
Also, characters like Kizaru and Aokiji (logia mostly) don't need to walk around with swords because they can "form" them unliike those with no DF who we are definitely sure are swordsmen (like Zoro and Mihawk and I believe Rayleigh).
Again, I know it may be a stretch for some people, but Kizaru did use it to fight against Rayleigh, so it should mean something. if you argue against Ben Beckmann then a sword really wont help in fighting him anyway I feel.
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eerrrr...
Someone is overthinking the Zoro timeskip story way too much.
You can't compare anyone to Goku btw. Goku is a simple-hearted and optimistic do-gooder, while Zoro is quite the opposite, being serious and tsundere and selifcritical and shit.
I don't know either how he got the scar on his eye, but I'm 90% sure that Zoro wouldn't cripple his eyesight voluntarily. Observation Haki does give a sense of living beings around oneself and also the intended movement of those living beings around you, but it is not really the same as looking with your eyes.
Also Observation Haki must be limited to short or medium range, since Sanji and half of the crew got ambushed on their own ship with sleeping gas at the beginning of Punk Hazard. Sanji noticed it, but he noticed it too late.
Any other opinions on how Obs Haki works? I think it allows you only to feel living beings, predicting attacks works because you can sense how they want to move/attack.
Enel had a sensing range covering most of Skypiea with Obs Haki, but he also used a trick with electric waves in addition to regular Haki to increase his range so far. Link
The fishman queen Otohime was said to have exceptional Obs. Haki as well but she couldn't sense her people from the palace.
I have no real basis for this, but I guess that the average Haki user can sense only 2-3 meters(6-10 ft) around himself with higher skilled people like Sanji maybe 2-4 times as far as that. That would be something 12 meters or 40 feet.
This would be a sizable range, but far from covering the whole Sunny. Which would fall in line with his group being ambushed on the Sunny.
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On February 28 2014 17:03 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Have we even seens Shanks swordsmanship? He was a rival to Mihawk so it implies he is a swordsman. No point in the best swordsman in having a rival who is not a swordsman. It doesn't make much sense for a build-up for a character.
This is something I've though about, considering that Shanks doesn't have a devil fruit and fights with a sword and that Hawkeyes is supposedly the best swordman in the world, Shanks should be the weakest of the two.
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On February 28 2014 19:08 Mataza wrote:+ Show Spoiler +eerrrr... Someone is overthinking the Zoro timeskip story way too much. You can't compare anyone to Goku btw. Goku is a simple-hearted and optimistic do-gooder, while Zoro is quite the opposite, being serious and tsundere and selifcritical and shit. I don't know either how he got the scar on his eye, but I'm 90% sure that Zoro wouldn't cripple his eyesight voluntarily. Observation Haki does give a sense of living beings around oneself and also the intended movement of those living beings around you, but it is not really the same as looking with your eyes. Also Observation Haki must be limited to short or medium range, since Sanji and half of the crew got ambushed on their own ship with sleeping gas at the beginning of Punk Hazard. Sanji noticed it, but he noticed it too late. Any other opinions on how Obs Haki works? I think it allows you only to feel living beings, predicting attacks works because you can sense how they want to move/attack. Enel had a sensing range covering most of Skypiea with Obs Haki, but he also used a trick with electric waves in addition to regular Haki to increase his range so far. LinkThe fishman queen Otohime was said to have exceptional Obs. Haki as well but she couldn't sense her people from the palace. I have no real basis for this, but I guess that the average Haki user can sense only 2-3 meters(6-10 ft) around himself with higher skilled people like Sanji maybe 2-4 times as far as that. That would be something 12 meters or 40 feet. This would be a sizable range, but far from covering the whole Sunny. Which would fall in line with his group being ambushed on the Sunny.
Hehe! I just suddenly found my mind running wild with the question today when discussion was about Zoro. No intent to disrupt the peace but given shounen logic, I just thought.. ehh... MAYBE.... but I wouldn't put my foot down to say I am right. hehe! =)
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On February 28 2014 19:23 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 17:03 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Have we even seens Shanks swordsmanship? He was a rival to Mihawk so it implies he is a swordsman. No point in the best swordsman in having a rival who is not a swordsman. It doesn't make much sense for a build-up for a character.
This is something I've though about, considering that Shanks doesn't have a devil fruit and fights with a sword and that Hawkeyes is supposedly the best swordman in the world, Shanks should be the weakest of the two. .
Shanks has stronger haki
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On February 28 2014 20:28 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 19:23 Diavlo wrote:On February 28 2014 17:03 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Have we even seens Shanks swordsmanship? He was a rival to Mihawk so it implies he is a swordsman. No point in the best swordsman in having a rival who is not a swordsman. It doesn't make much sense for a build-up for a character.
This is something I've though about, considering that Shanks doesn't have a devil fruit and fights with a sword and that Hawkeyes is supposedly the best swordman in the world, Shanks should be the weakest of the two. . Shanks has stronger haki
Indeed, I do not think Miahawk possesses the conqueror's haki (at the very least it has never been shown) whereas Shanks has to be one of the strongest in the world in conqueror's haki.
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On March 01 2014 02:07 LaughingTulkas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 20:28 sc2holar wrote:On February 28 2014 19:23 Diavlo wrote:On February 28 2014 17:03 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Have we even seens Shanks swordsmanship? He was a rival to Mihawk so it implies he is a swordsman. No point in the best swordsman in having a rival who is not a swordsman. It doesn't make much sense for a build-up for a character.
This is something I've though about, considering that Shanks doesn't have a devil fruit and fights with a sword and that Hawkeyes is supposedly the best swordman in the world, Shanks should be the weakest of the two. . Shanks has stronger haki Indeed, I do not think Miahawk possesses the conqueror's haki (at the very least it has never been shown) whereas Shanks has to be one of the strongest in the world in conqueror's haki.
I meant that Shanks should be weaker than Hawkeyes in head to head where conqueror's haki is irrelevant.
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Being the World's best swordsman is not a title that you get when you defeat Mihawk.
That title is what the "public" calls who ever they consider a person to be above all else... right now that person is Mihawk.
But if Zoro had managed to defeat Mihawk, on that island, alone and without no one noticing, how would he be the world's best swordsman?
When it happens it will be where many people and probably some marines will see that Zoro deserves that title because he can kick Mihawk's ass when is life is on the line..
And let go of Shanks vs Mihawk.. One is a younkou.. has a freaking powerfull crew and has King haki.. the other is the most skilled swordsman in the world! They practiced with swords but not anymore
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I'm pretty sure Mihawk got his title the same way Ryuma was named "king". By travelling round a country or world(in mihawks) case and by word of mouth becoming extremely well known. IMO Zoro is gonna have to beat alot of famous swordsman and have it reported to the marines/newspapers before defeating Mihawk to take his position and be recognised as the best.
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Mihawk is kinda overrated.
Jozu stopped so-called "strongest slash in the world" like nothing. I dont think there's much difference between Vista and Mihawk. He isnt even strongest shichibukai.
oh and Zoro's eye, i think he restrict himself like Zaraki Kenpachi. He's waiting for worth opponent to open his eye.
![[image loading]](http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130513030308/onepiece/images/9/9f/Shadowed_Shichibukai.png)
It was when Shichibukai first introduced. Oda-sensei was planning to make all Shichibukai's legendary swordsmans but he changed his mind.
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Mensol.. yeah great logic dude! you won ^^
WoW it's like saying Squard > WB because he managed to put a sword thru is chest...
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On February 28 2014 14:17 BlackMagister wrote:
That's kind of silly even disregarding there being no signs Mihawk has eye problems (he has hawk in his name for crying out loud). If Mihawk has a crippling weakness because he has one bad eye Zoro would not cripple himself just to make things even or to prove a point when he beats an imaginary person that beat Mihawk. Does someone need to tie one arm behind their back to face Shanks? Get a crippling disease to face Whitebeard? Even if a fighter were incredibly prideful they wouldn't cripple themselves to prove a point.
If Mihawk were really so weak that one eye injury made him not the strongest than he legitimately does not deserve the title anymore and especially if that meant time skip Zoro could beat him. More likely Zoro was just injured while training with Mihawk. Either the training was too extreme or Zoro challenged Mihawk before leaving.
not saying i agree the other points in this mihawk argument but
just saying your point here is incorrect
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2063-16/one-piece/chapter-16.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2063-17/one-piece/chapter-16.html
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On March 01 2014 02:59 shell wrote:
Mensol.. yeah great logic dude! you won ^^
WoW it's like saying Squard > WB because he managed to put a sword thru is chest...
mensol won because someone finally succumbed to his trolling ;p
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EPT
