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On October 21 2013 01:13 freewareplayer wrote:
We have already seen that he cant pull stuff away thats being held down. Law would have a field day with Buggy or anyone else without strong haki.
@furumite you quoted my sentence, yet didnt read it? He doesnt need to do something new. Take his heart = gg wp. He did that to multiple people including smoker who even has Haki. If Buggy learned Haki till now is questionable.
He has to catch the heart first. Punching out the heart is harder to do than doing his slash and and putting together people in weird ways, which he has shown that he can do at range. He has to get to Bucky, but bucky is a master of running and evading, and could split up and fly away with his torso if needed. If his heart WAS punched out, he might be able to fly away with it immediately before Law kills him. Maybe,
I´m not saying that Law would definitely get beaten up by the hilariously pathetic pirate Bucky, but I don´t think it would be an autolose either. Just like Enels lightning was unaffective against Luffy and Magellans poison was stopped by Mr.3s wax, Buggys power might be the perfect counter to Laws power, and there is no way to know how the battle would end.
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On October 21 2013 02:54 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 01:13 freewareplayer wrote:
We have already seen that he cant pull stuff away thats being held down. Law would have a field day with Buggy or anyone else without strong haki.
@furumite you quoted my sentence, yet didnt read it? He doesnt need to do something new. Take his heart = gg wp. He did that to multiple people including smoker who even has Haki. If Buggy learned Haki till now is questionable. He has to catch the heart first. Punching out the heart is harder to do than doing his slash and and putting together people in weird ways, which he has shown that he can do at range. He has to get to Bucky, but bucky is a master of running and evading, and could split up and fly away with his torso if needed. If his heart WAS punched out, he might be able to fly away with it immediately before Law kills him. Maybe, I´m not saying that Law would definitely get beaten up by the hilariously pathetic pirate Bucky, but I don´t think it would be an autolose either. Just like Enels lightning was unaffective against Luffy and Magellans poison was stopped by Mr.3s wax, Buggys power might be the perfect counter to Laws power, and there is no way to know how the battle would end.
Yeah Buhggcky is realy funny,this Buhggcky guy realy is the monster of running ! *sigh*
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On October 20 2013 18:02 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2013 17:33 Sentenal wrote:On October 20 2013 17:20 evilfatsh1t wrote:On October 20 2013 11:42 Sableyeah wrote:On October 20 2013 05:07 shark. wrote:
As I said before it is impossible to Debate whether or not Buggy is affected by haki strikes as we have not been shown absolute proof. To say that Mihawk wasn't using Haki despite knowing Luffy is a DF user and saying that he would go all out would be stupid. Yet given Buggy's DF was working as normal would show otherwise. Given the small glimpse into Haki we have been given we simply don't have enough info to possibly have a decent discussion about a topic such as Buggy etc. All we know is that Haki can be used to negate DF's to point where the user can still use his abilities but an opponent can by pass them given enough skill. Logias have been explained and we have been shown that paramecias can also be harmed but the nature of the strike being dealt also seems to play a huge impact onto the result. I only want to talk about the Buggy and Haki thing. How would it affect him? He seperates his body. Does it mean you think he has some sort of connection between the splitting and with Haki you could in fact tie them up orsomething? Haki enhanced attack/defence is like a waterblanket against fire, you can use it to cover yourself or to put out the fire. It doesn't allow you to make them unable to use their ability. It only allows you to punch through their DF and straight up damage their real bodies. So I'm not exactly sure why Haki would be really that detremental against Buggy unless ofcourse Buggy tries to fight but doesn't know how to use Haki against a Haki which would be bad for him as his punches wouldn't hurt really as much. consider buggy's df to be a logia. his body splits against swords exactly the same way logias do. if haki imbued attacks can cut logias then its safe to assume buggy could get cut too. Buggy is not a Logia. Your logic is baseless and faulty. no it isnt. his body reacts exactly the same way logias do against sword attacks. against swordsmen he is no different than a logia so theres no reason for people to assume his body is immune to all sword attacks even with haki
You are wrong, and now I'll explain why.
Buggy is not a Logia, or like a Logia, in any shape or form. Buggy's power allows him to do two things. These things are facts that we have observed from reading it. Firstly, Buggy can split himself into parts. Secondly, Buggy can control his parts however he wants once split. Did you read both of them? Now think about them. It shouldn't be too hard.
Do you know the implication of that second one? Once Buggy is split, he can control his parts. Pretty simple, right? Now lets take into account other facts that we have observed from reading One Piece that cannot be disputed. It doesn't matter how Buggy is split, he can always control his parts. Whether Buggy splits himself, or someone slices him, he is always in control of his parts. Always. There is not one instance in the entire manga of this being untrue, barring something like Seastone.
So, we have two facts here. Buggy's power allows him to control parts of his body once his body is split, and it doesn't matter how his body is split, he can still control the parts. Now what does this mean? It means that when a Swordsman slices him, Buggy isn't actually avoiding the attack. There isn't a single part of his ability that is logia-like and automatically splits itself to avoid a cutting attack. Buggy still gets cut. Hes not "avoiding" any attack. The difference is that once Buggy is cut/split, he still controls the split parts, so in practice, it isn't any different from him splitting himself of his own accord.
Now, what does Haki do against Devil Fruit users like Logias users? It allows you to give form to their fluid bodies, allowing you to strike them. It does NOT cancel out their power. They still turn into sand/magma/ice/fire/etc, still control their element, and all that stuff. Now, considering all I wrote above, how is this like Buggy's power in the least? He doesn't have a fluid body. He isn't avoiding any attack. The sword is still slicing his body, just like it would slice anything else. Its just that Buggy's power also lets him control split parts of his body, so the act of cutting on Buggy is simply pointless, unless you cancel out his power.
Note that everything I wrote here is based on fact that we have observed in the manga, and everything you wrote is just baseless speculation because you think hes like a Logia for some reason.
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im so confused. is your post supposed to prove me wrong somehow?
whats your point about him being in control of his parts once he is sliced up? logias are the same. its not like theyre immobile or disarmed when they get cut as well, they still move freely.
your whole 3rd paragraph is just an attempt to differentiate his fruit from a logia, when really they do the exact same shit against swords. they both get split and they both reform perfectly without getting hurt at all.
haki pretty much removes the defensive property of a fruit. luffy is supposed to be pretty much the opposite to buggy, immune to blunt objects and weak to swords. yet when a haki imbued attack blunt attack hits him he is injured. if youre naive enough to think that a haki imbued sword wont injure buggy then im not even going to bother attempting to change your mind. it has nothing to do with "cancelling out" the power, if buggy doesnt split his body manually to dodge the cut quick enough, he will get hurt as the body wont automatically do it for him, just like logias
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you're forgetting you're not the writer and that oda can make buggy be immune to haki or not according to his liking.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that.
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On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that.
Can you provide proof, because the translation I read doesn't state that at all.
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On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that.
haki allows you to hit the real body. Paramecia doesnt have an elemental body.
Edit: it would be funny if buggy is the hardcounter to mihawk. but i think haki does go through his ability.
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The way i see it, Buggy is the one that splits himself when is in danger, maybe one could even argue that is observation haki
He lacks resolve and guts, but he has some skills imo
He can't be immune to haki, because no one is.
It really is interesting to think what could happen if Law fought Buggy, maybe he would be split by Law but then law wouldn't be able to control those pieces.
Don't forget Law couldn't cut DD, Fujitora and Vergo.
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5003 Posts
haki + fruit interaction arguments have ruined everything interesting about one piece discussion threads
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On October 21 2013 06:42 evilfatsh1t wrote:
im so confused. is your post supposed to prove me wrong somehow?
whats your point about him being in control of his parts once he is sliced up? logias are the same. its not like theyre immobile or disarmed when they get cut as well, they still move freely.
your whole 3rd paragraph is just an attempt to differentiate his fruit from a logia, when really they do the exact same shit against swords. they both get split and they both reform perfectly without getting hurt at all.
haki pretty much removes the defensive property of a fruit. luffy is supposed to be pretty much the opposite to buggy, immune to blunt objects and weak to swords. yet when a haki imbued attack blunt attack hits him he is injured. if youre naive enough to think that a haki imbued sword wont injure buggy then im not even going to bother attempting to change your mind. it has nothing to do with "cancelling out" the power, if buggy doesnt split his body manually to dodge the cut quick enough, he will get hurt as the body wont automatically do it for him, just like logias
Other than Haki being able to cause Luffy pain (which btw is completely irrelevant to this discussion), you are making up shit. Congratulations. Where does it say "Haki removes defensive properties of a fruit"? No where. Not a single place. Buggy does not do the exact same shit as a Logia user. Again, this is you making up shit.
And btw, we also saw a Logia user get an attack put through his throat, with Haki, and be just fine.
Oh, almost missed the "Luffy is weak to swords" line. I guess its time to stop taking seriously the guy who thinks its necessary to point out "people are weak to dying".
On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that.
[Citation required]
I sure do like how people don't even bother to read my post. Every single thing you people have been saying, I've already addressed in my post. I guess Forikorder has infected more people here than I thought.
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On October 21 2013 09:40 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that. [Citation required] I sure do like how people don't even bother to read my post. Every single thing you people have been saying, I've already addressed in my post. I guess Forikorder has infected more people here than I thought.
Looks like you're the Forkorder this time.
http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/597/14
Rayleigh: "A hardened suit of armor can of course also be used as a weapon."
::Flick::
Luffy: "Owww...!! But I'm a rubber man!! That flick hurt!!!"
Rayleigh: "That's where this power really comes in handy. Besides its ability to attack the weak points of devil's fruit users, this 'color of armaments' haki also exists as the only way to oppose them...!! Even the flowing bodies of 'logia' users, which may feel invincible, can be captured as 'substantial bodies'!!!"
In a different translation it says, "other than taking advantage of their individual weaknesses... this 'armament haki' is the sole method of effectively combating their abilities...!!"
Right there it says that Haki counters DF abilities. Not just logia abilities.
Also interesting from when I was searching for that line that is now relevant in the current chapter:
http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/595/3
"I'll be sure... to steal the proper throne!!!" - Law (ch 595)
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I'm fairly certain you just strawmanned Sentenal just now. You should reread what has been said.
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Buggy ability work similar to that of Law in that when he is cut the part is cleanly removed form his body without harm this can be done all the way down to the atomic level.
this makes sword attack against him pointless because even with Haki the attack would simply separate his body, but not remove his DF ability which allows freely separate his body and control the pieces. The reason why Haki is so powerful against LOGIA type is because they are over-confident in their ability to manifest their bodies in to their element. Its a false sense of invincibility.
This makes Buggy Devil Fruit one of the most OP fruit in the whole series which is the point to his character that even with amazing power and ability and teacher you can still be your biggest enemy.
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On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that.
Haki does apply to all fruit but the thing people don't understand is Haki doesn't disable the ability (like Sea Stone). and the way Buggy ability work is that when he is cut that part is separated without injury (Like law cutting ability) then he has free control over that part within a limit.
this ability can go down in theory to the atomic level meaning the second a blade hit him his body split apart. So even if the blade was using Haki it would have little effect. As he could train his body to separate on relax
This is the same as a Logia user avoid Haki attacks (unskilled Logia user wouldn't simply turn their body in to their element a powerful Logia user would see the sword coming and split apart allow it to pass though the empty space)
like when Dolf cut off Crocodiles head
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On October 21 2013 10:23 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 09:40 Sentenal wrote:On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that. [Citation required] I sure do like how people don't even bother to read my post. Every single thing you people have been saying, I've already addressed in my post. I guess Forikorder has infected more people here than I thought. Looks like you're the Forkorder this time. http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/597/14Rayleigh: "A hardened suit of armor can of course also be used as a weapon." ::Flick:: Luffy: "Owww...!! But I'm a rubber man!! That flick hurt!!!" Rayleigh: "That's where this power really comes in handy. Besides its ability to attack the weak points of devil's fruit users, this 'color of armaments' haki also exists as the only way to oppose them...!! Even the flowing bodies of 'logia' users, which may feel invincible, can be captured as 'substantial bodies'!!!" In a different translation it says, "other than taking advantage of their individual weaknesses... this 'armament haki' is the sole method of effectively combating their abilities...!!" Right there it says that Haki counters DF abilities. Not just logia abilities. Also interesting from when I was searching for that line that is now relevant in the current chapter: http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/595/3"I'll be sure... to steal the proper throne!!!" - Law (ch 595)
Are you being serious? Are you trying to tell me that "attacking weak points" or "taking advantage of individual weaknesses" means the same thing as "removing defensive attributes of a fruit"? Or "haki lets you attack all devil fruit users as if they were normal people"? Nice strawman.
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On October 21 2013 11:10 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 10:23 RenSC2 wrote:On October 21 2013 09:40 Sentenal wrote:On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that. [Citation required] I sure do like how people don't even bother to read my post. Every single thing you people have been saying, I've already addressed in my post. I guess Forikorder has infected more people here than I thought. Looks like you're the Forkorder this time. http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/597/14Rayleigh: "A hardened suit of armor can of course also be used as a weapon." ::Flick:: Luffy: "Owww...!! But I'm a rubber man!! That flick hurt!!!" Rayleigh: "That's where this power really comes in handy. Besides its ability to attack the weak points of devil's fruit users, this 'color of armaments' haki also exists as the only way to oppose them...!! Even the flowing bodies of 'logia' users, which may feel invincible, can be captured as 'substantial bodies'!!!" In a different translation it says, "other than taking advantage of their individual weaknesses... this 'armament haki' is the sole method of effectively combating their abilities...!!" Right there it says that Haki counters DF abilities. Not just logia abilities. Also interesting from when I was searching for that line that is now relevant in the current chapter: http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/595/3"I'll be sure... to steal the proper throne!!!" - Law (ch 595) Are you being serious? Are you trying to tell me that "attacking weak points" or "taking advantage of individual weaknesses" means the same thing as "removing defensive attributes of a fruit"? Or "haki lets you attack all devil fruit users as if they were normal people"? Nice strawman.
Haki doesn't equal sea stone.
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On October 21 2013 10:23 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 09:40 Sentenal wrote:On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that. [Citation required] I sure do like how people don't even bother to read my post. Every single thing you people have been saying, I've already addressed in my post. I guess Forikorder has infected more people here than I thought. Looks like you're the Forkorder this time. http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/597/14Rayleigh: "A hardened suit of armor can of course also be used as a weapon." ::Flick:: Luffy: "Owww...!! But I'm a rubber man!! That flick hurt!!!" Rayleigh: "That's where this power really comes in handy. Besides its ability to attack the weak points of devil's fruit users, this 'color of armaments' haki also exists as the only way to oppose them...!! Even the flowing bodies of 'logia' users, which may feel invincible, can be captured as 'substantial bodies'!!!" In a different translation it says, "other than taking advantage of their individual weaknesses... this 'armament haki' is the sole method of effectively combating their abilities...!!" Right there it says that Haki counters DF abilities. Not just logia abilities. Also interesting from when I was searching for that line that is now relevant in the current chapter: http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/595/3"I'll be sure... to steal the proper throne!!!" - Law (ch 595)
Haki doesn't remove ones devil fruit abilities.
If it did Law would have been unable to cut Vergo in half without killing him.
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On October 21 2013 11:20 FlyingSheeps wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 11:10 Sentenal wrote:On October 21 2013 10:23 RenSC2 wrote:On October 21 2013 09:40 Sentenal wrote:On October 21 2013 07:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Please. You're forgetting that Oda is a good enough author to keep things consistent, and Rayleigh clearly says that Armament Haki is effective in combatting fruit users abilities. He mentionned the logias as an example, but he clearly says that it applies to all fruit users. Armament Haki allows you to hit devil fruit users as if they were regular people, and being a paramecia devil fruit like Buggy doesn't change that. [Citation required] I sure do like how people don't even bother to read my post. Every single thing you people have been saying, I've already addressed in my post. I guess Forikorder has infected more people here than I thought. Looks like you're the Forkorder this time. http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/597/14Rayleigh: "A hardened suit of armor can of course also be used as a weapon." ::Flick:: Luffy: "Owww...!! But I'm a rubber man!! That flick hurt!!!" Rayleigh: "That's where this power really comes in handy. Besides its ability to attack the weak points of devil's fruit users, this 'color of armaments' haki also exists as the only way to oppose them...!! Even the flowing bodies of 'logia' users, which may feel invincible, can be captured as 'substantial bodies'!!!" In a different translation it says, "other than taking advantage of their individual weaknesses... this 'armament haki' is the sole method of effectively combating their abilities...!!" Right there it says that Haki counters DF abilities. Not just logia abilities. Also interesting from when I was searching for that line that is now relevant in the current chapter: http://starkana.com/manga/O/One_Piece/chapter/595/3"I'll be sure... to steal the proper throne!!!" - Law (ch 595) Are you being serious? Are you trying to tell me that "attacking weak points" or "taking advantage of individual weaknesses" means the same thing as "removing defensive attributes of a fruit"? Or "haki lets you attack all devil fruit users as if they were normal people"? Nice strawman. Haki doesn't equal sea stone.
I know, that's the whole point.
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Sentenal is correct, a haki blade wouldnt do crap to buggy. From what vergo said vs. smoker. Source Why do you spread yourself out so thin when facing something with good haki, you're just making yourself a bigger target.
Logia's spread their body out and can put it where they want, hiding their true body. Haki allows users to hit the true body or the 'breath' of the user (back when zoro fought Mr.1, as a premise of the idea). Buggy doesn't have this 'true body' when using his power, its not hidden in some element or anything like that, its physically split up. Nothing can stop it from splitting up because no one can cut his physically body. It splits up and the nothingness thats left behind where a normal logia would get hit isn't there, its physically somewhere else. He has one of the most powerful fruits out there, him not using it properly is part of the running joke that is buggy in general.
The fact that mihawk didn't hit him is proof of that, thinking he would go easy on anyone is crazy, he let zoro hardly live because he liked him, you don't think he'd do the same to buggy if he could?
Also don't use words like haki 'counters' something, this isn't rock paper scissors. It lets you deal with them, luffy doesn't lose vs. someone who can use haki by default. They can just hurt him, nothing more or less. DF users still have a chance, they just have to use it differently. I'm sure when we see skilled DF logias it'll be a completely different story. IE When a logia dodges a punch in their elemental form. As seen with the harpy fight, tashigi had the haki and skill to hit the harpy girl, the harpy girl was just too fast in her elemental form. Its not like tashigi could cut the snow on the ground or the blizzard and hit her no matter what.
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