EPTJamie killed the mad king just before he was going to be judged and captured, he waited for the last moment and that's what Ned reproached him along with breaking his oath. If he thought the king was a bad one, he should have joined the rebellion or try to defend Ned's father and brother when they got burned.
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Acertos
France852 Posts
Jamie killed the mad king just before he was going to be judged and captured, he waited for the last moment and that's what Ned reproached him along with breaking his oath. If he thought the king was a bad one, he should have joined the rebellion or try to defend Ned's father and brother when they got burned. | ||
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Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
On May 03 2013 02:43 Too_MuchZerg wrote: But what about Tyrion? He doesn't seem to value anything lately. Wants to hurt/kill Cercei. Justice and oaths arent that high on list either. Where do you get that Tyrion wants to hurt/kill Cercei? He may be at odds with her and disagree with her actions but i highly doubt he's out to hurt/kill her. I'm guessing he wants to someone expose her and get her on his side of things. He respects that she is his sister and he loves her but what she is doing at the moment is wrong. | ||
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
On May 03 2013 03:46 Shelke14 wrote: Where do you get that Tyrion wants to hurt/kill Cercei? He may be at odds with her and disagree with her actions but i highly doubt he's out to hurt/kill her. I'm guessing he wants to someone expose her and get her on his side of things. He respects that she is his sister and he loves her but what she is doing at the moment is wrong. Cercei tried to have him killed, he knows it and Tywin knows it; it's likely you're wrong and Tyrion wants her dead or at least exposed but who he does admire and respect is his brother (you can see this as they banter) and exposing one would the other so it's likely just dead would suffice or at least under his finger. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On May 03 2013 03:47 Hitch-22 wrote: Cercei tried to have him killed, he knows it and Tywin knows it; it's likely you're wrong and Tyrion wants her dead or at least exposed but who he does admire and respect is his brother (you can see this as they banter) and exposing one would the other so it's likely just dead would suffice or at least under his finger. Was it explicitly Cersei who tried to have Tyrion killed? Because I got the feeling that Cersei thinks Tyrion is speaking about her incest while Tyrion was hinting about the assassination attempt against him. | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On May 03 2013 03:46 Shelke14 wrote: Where do you get that Tyrion wants to hurt/kill Cercei? He may be at odds with her and disagree with her actions but i highly doubt he's out to hurt/kill her. I'm guessing he wants to someone expose her and get her on his side of things. He respects that she is his sister and he loves her but what she is doing at the moment is wrong. Whole season its been like that. Tyrion even said that to Lord Varys in episode 4. So I say he wants to hurt/kill her for sure. Tyrion cant really expose incest because of his father and brother. So if he does it has to be secret way, same as Cersei did. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On May 03 2013 03:41 Acertos wrote: In season 1, Ned and Jamie talked with each-other when they were in the thrown room. Jamie killed the mad king just before he was going to be judged and captured, he waited for the last moment and that's what Ned reproached him along with breaking his oath. If he thought the king was a bad one, he should have joined the rebellion or try to defend Ned's father and brother when they got burned. Jaime was a man of the Kingsguard. He was sworn to serve any king that came along. Even Ser Barristan said as much in the last episode - he had to serve a mad king, a drunk king, he just wants to serve a king that he believes in. Jaime couldn't really just up and leave the king's side. Then he would still have been considered an oath breaker, and Ned STILL wouldn't have wanted Jaime on the side of the rebellion. | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On May 03 2013 04:35 jcarlsoniv wrote: Jaime was a man of the Kingsguard. He was sworn to serve any king that came along. Even Ser Barristan said as much in the last episode - he had to serve a mad king, a drunk king, he just wants to serve a king that he believes in. Jaime couldn't really just up and leave the king's side. Then he would still have been considered an oath breaker, and Ned STILL wouldn't have wanted Jaime on the side of the rebellion. What if Jaime Lannister and Selmy Barristan switches places? Would Selmy kill mad king? Though he doesn't have to worry about killing his own father but still. | ||
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ecstazy
Russian Federation59 Posts
On May 03 2013 04:53 Too_MuchZerg wrote: What if Jaime Lannister and Selmy Barristan switches places? Would Selmy kill mad king? Though he doesn't have to worry about killing his own father but still. I definitely think he would have stopped the explosion. I don't know if he would have actually killed the king. There are ways to stop people without killing them, it's just Jaime prefers a very straight forward approach and he was angry with the order to kill father. | ||
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Aegon I
Canada133 Posts
All of it was fantastic except for the killing strike. Why did the one-eyed guy kneel and then take such a weak stance to defend a against a swing that hadn't even begun yet? That didn't seem realistic. Anyway, what the **** is Stannis doing exactly? Wasn't Rennly supposed to have had an army 100,000 strong, most of whom defected to his brother after his death? Even if Stannis lost half his force in that siege, which must have been unlikely, he should still have probably the most sizeable army of all. And why isn't Robb withdrawing to the North to defend his realm on his home-ground with the aid of winter? What if his banner men don't want to march south again afterwards? I have not understood what has been his strategic goal in this war exactly. Politically he wants to be recognised as a king, right, but militarily how does he intend to enforce that on whoever sits on the throne in King's Landing? By winning so many crushing victories on the battlefield that his enemies run out of troops, ala Hannibal? | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
It's interesting to see how many people are morally ambiguous but for all intents and purposes maintain a polite outward appearance, especially the nobles. The "good" tend to have to settle for less polite ways to stay alive, and are split between neutral and lawful. Also the "chaotic" column seems to almost be devoid of nobles sans Joffrey and Arya, both children. Expected but it's cool to see on paper. | ||
Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On May 03 2013 05:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: My alignment sheet so far It's interesting to see how many people are morally ambiguous but for all intents and purposes maintain a polite outward appearance, especially the nobles. The "good" tend to have to settle for less polite ways to stay alive, and are split between neutral and lawful. Also the "chaotic" column seems to almost be devoid of nobles sans Joffrey and Arya, both children. Expected but it's cool to see on paper. very intriguing list. If you were to add dead people, where'd they go? (Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, the mad king, Viserys Targaryen) I'm also interested in seeing the list change as the show develops. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 03 2013 05:47 Live2Win wrote: very intriguing list. If you were to add dead people, where'd they go? (Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, the mad king, Viserys Targaryen) I'm also interested in seeing the list change as the show develops. Well if I left the dead in, the sheet would fill up fast. For the ones you mentioned, Ned goes to Lawful Good, Robert to Chaotic Neutral, Aerys to Chaotic Evil, Viserys to Neutral Evil. Renly would go to Lawful Good and Khal Drogo to Chaotic Good (he's barbaric but considering his environment he does have good motives at heart both for the khalasar and for Daenerys) | ||
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psychopat
Canada417 Posts
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PerryHooter
Sweden268 Posts
On May 03 2013 05:34 Aegon I wrote: Anyway, what the **** is Stannis doing exactly? Wasn't Rennly supposed to have had an army 100,000 strong, most of whom defected to his brother after his death? Even if Stannis lost half his force in that siege, which must have been unlikely, he should still have probably the most sizeable army of all. And why isn't Robb withdrawing to the North to defend his realm on his home-ground with the aid of winter? What if his banner men don't want to march south again afterwards? I have not understood what has been his strategic goal in this war exactly. Politically he wants to be recognised as a king, right, but militarily how does he intend to enforce that on whoever sits on the throne in King's Landing? By winning so many crushing victories on the battlefield that his enemies run out of troops, ala Hannibal? A large part of Renly's army, I think about half, was Tyrell supporters, which were won over to the Lannister side with the aid of Littlefinger. And the reason the Starks went to war in the first place was to free Ned, as he died it became more of extracting revenge, dethroning the false king Joffrey and as a "side quest" (lol) to free Sansa and Arya. Robb has said himself that he doesn't want to become king himself, and that he has no plan on what to do once they've won (Talisa asked him about it in one episode). What confused me was why Robb didn't side with Stannis during season 2 (or Renly for that matter), despite Stannis having the best claim to the throne aswell as being supported by Ned before he was killed (for instance Ned only informed Stannis of Jaime being the real father of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen). It makes no sense to me why the Starks didn't unite forces with either Baratheon. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On May 03 2013 05:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: My alignment sheet so far It's interesting to see how many people are morally ambiguous but for all intents and purposes maintain a polite outward appearance, especially the nobles. The "good" tend to have to settle for less polite ways to stay alive, and are split between neutral and lawful. Also the "chaotic" column seems to almost be devoid of nobles sans Joffrey and Arya, both children. Expected but it's cool to see on paper. Very interesting. A few comments: Good row: Seems sensible, though I'd be more likely to put Sandor Clegane in CV or even TN. We'll see though. Theon used to be CG too, but we should probably go with current alignment. (Hound used to be Lawful Neutral.) Neutral row: When I tried to do one of these charts, the neutral row was the most difficult to populate. That said... Still not sure personally if I could even put Jon Snow, Thoros, or Varys on the map. I would also put Tywin and Stannis both in LE, or maybe Stannis even in NE. Jaime Lannister is CE, or kindly CN. Barristan Selmy is LN. Evil row: Littlefinger has to be CE. Tywin should be LE. Joff is NE. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22487 Posts
On May 03 2013 06:00 PerryHooter wrote: A large part of Renly's army, I think about half, was Tyrell supporters, which were won over to the Lannister side with the aid of Littlefinger. And the reason the Starks went to war in the first place was to free Ned, as he died it became more of extracting revenge, dethroning the false king Joffrey and as a "side quest" (lol) to free Sansa and Arya. Robb has said himself that he doesn't want to become king himself, and that he has no plan on what to do once they've won (Talisa asked him about it in one episode). What confused me was why Robb didn't side with Stannis during season 2 (or Renly for that matter), despite Stannis having the best claim to the throne aswell as being supported by Ned before he was killed (for instance Ned only informed Stannis of Jaime being the real father of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen). It makes no sense to me why the Starks didn't unite forces with either Baratheon. Because Stannis is a very traditional man. Im pretty sure it was said in an episode during a conversation with Stannis that he would not accept Robb as King of the North and that he was as much a traitor as everyone else. While allying himself with Stannis would be a good move while Ned was still alive and the goal was to rescue him. Once his bannerman declared Robb King of the North an alliance with Stannis stopped being an option. | ||
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ecstazy
Russian Federation59 Posts
On May 03 2013 05:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: My alignment sheet so far It's interesting to see how many people are morally ambiguous but for all intents and purposes maintain a polite outward appearance, especially the nobles. The "good" tend to have to settle for less polite ways to stay alive, and are split between neutral and lawful. Also the "chaotic" column seems to almost be devoid of nobles sans Joffrey and Arya, both children. Expected but it's cool to see on paper. I think Jorah Mormont is true neutral. Baristan Selmy is lawful good. Hodor is probably chaotic good. I'm not sure if Theon and Cersei are actually evil - they are just idiots who got themselves in a terrible position and then tried to get out with some immoral decision making (in Cersei's case quite successfully). Kid who jesus'd theon is probably chaotic evil - random guard killing. Melisandre might not be evil - we just don't really know much about her. I agree with the rest - nice sheet. Edit: oh yeah - also Jaime is Chaotic - screwing his sister, killing a king and attacking the Hand of the King on the streets is not particularly lawful. | ||
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zeratul_jf
United States808 Posts
On May 03 2013 06:00 PerryHooter wrote: A large part of Renly's army, I think about half, was Tyrell supporters, which were won over to the Lannister side with the aid of Littlefinger. And the reason the Starks went to war in the first place was to free Ned, as he died it became more of extracting revenge, dethroning the false king Joffrey and as a "side quest" (lol) to free Sansa and Arya. Robb has said himself that he doesn't want to become king himself, and that he has no plan on what to do once they've won (Talisa asked him about it in one episode). What confused me was why Robb didn't side with Stannis during season 2 (or Renly for that matter), despite Stannis having the best claim to the throne aswell as being supported by Ned before he was killed (for instance Ned only informed Stannis of Jaime being the real father of Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen). It makes no sense to me why the Starks didn't unite forces with either Baratheon. Robb did try to ally with Renly thats why his mom was there when Renly was killed. Its just that the alliance went to crap once the shadow demon thingy killed Renly. Because now the army did not have a leader and hence they could not form an alliance since people wanted to go to different sides. | ||
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
On May 03 2013 03:41 Acertos wrote: In season 1, Ned and Jamie talked with each-other when they were in the thrown room. Jamie killed the mad king just before he was going to be judged and captured, he waited for the last moment and that's what Ned reproached him along with breaking his oath. If he thought the king was a bad one, he should have joined the rebellion or try to defend Ned's father and brother when they got burned. You make it sound so point blank... At what point do you break and oath? At what point is your oath not bondable? Is it at the slightest craze? Is it at the burning of two innocent people and you then stab the king? Do you wait to see it develop and try to find a time where he steps completely over the line? In my opinion Jaime showed that he was in constant morale struggle between defending the Mad King and defending the people and when the Mad King prepared to burn the entire city to the ground his last straw snapped and he killed the King. "What would you have done" is the best line from the dialogue in which he forces you to take on the struggle of swearing an oath to protect a king with your life even if said king burns honorable nobility and prepares to kill hundreds if not thousands of innocence on a whim. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On May 03 2013 04:35 jcarlsoniv wrote: Ned and Robert and all the rebels swore oaths to the king too. I think he would of been ok with breaking oaths assuming there were particular grounds that validated it, i.e burning innoncents alive.Jaime was a man of the Kingsguard. He was sworn to serve any king that came along. Even Ser Barristan said as much in the last episode - he had to serve a mad king, a drunk king, he just wants to serve a king that he believes in. Jaime couldn't really just up and leave the king's side. Then he would still have been considered an oath breaker, and Ned STILL wouldn't have wanted Jaime on the side of the rebellion. | ||
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