[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 542

On May 30 2012 11:20 Mercy13 wrote:


Well... mb evil is too strong a word. I believe that one of the greatest strengths of the series is that, as you suggest, no character in the show is truly good or evil. Some are much more good (or evil) than others however.

As for things that Tywin has done that I would characterize as evil:
- The thing w/ Tyrion and his wife. He had a girl gang-raped to prove a point.
- He unleashed Ser Gregor and Ser Armory on the countryside. They have been burning and killing hundreds if not thousands of civilians. This isn't just collateral damage, it is exactly what Tywin wants them to do, in order to terrorize his enemies.
- He is terrorizing his own army because he thinks someone tried to assassinate him. For the past two episodes you can see him randomly hanging soldiers that are sworn to his service, that he presumably swore to protect in turn.
- The events referenced by the song "The Rains of Castamere," where, according to the show's bonus features, Tywin "annihilated" an entire family. This implies that the massacre included children, infants, whoever.

There are other things too, though the references are not always direct. I absolutely do not think Tywin is "devoted to his family." He is devoted to the PRESTIGE of his family, or maybe obsessed is a better word. He would slaughter thousands of people to repay an insult to the Lannister name, and he will see a Lannister on the throne at literally any cost.

At least that's my take on the character. Sorry if I'm being a bit melodramatic, I've been drinking wine all night whilst rewatching the first season and it's put me in a funny mood : )

On May 30 2012 11:48 Euronyme wrote:


Well I'm up way past bed time (04:24 am) and in an arguing mode so here goes: ^^
-The girl who was gang raped was actually a prostitute, and it was mentioned that she got vastly overpayed. "by the end she had gotten so many silver coins, she could no longer carry them" or something along those lines.
-The terrorizing is what every army does in a war. It's just tactics. Lowers enemy moral.
-I think he's after the hidden or whatever they're called. The same kind of dudes like the murderer guy who Arya commands(?). He's just rooting out traitorous assassins. Remember that Lannister soldiers seem to be recruited in all kinds of manner. The assassin went from being picked up randomly in an enemy camp (he was released from the cage before the soldiers found him) to being a solider in the Lannister army.
-I havn't seen any bonus features so I can't comment on that.

He's devoted to every aspect of his family as far as I can tell. The prestige is important. If other houses think of them weak, they are weak. You're only as powerful as others consider you.
As the eunuch said: Power is only shadow on the wall.
He's devoted to keeping the family name powerful in the future. He's not really interested in personal gain.

On May 30 2012 12:02 Mercy13 wrote:


I think we are in very real danger of getting into a debate over objective vs. subjective system of ethics... If that happens may the gods help us all : )

Your responses for the most part seem to be explaining the motivations behind Tywin's actions. I agree that those motivations are likely accurate, but that doesn't excuse his actions. For example, believing that an assassin is hiding in his army does not justify randomly hanging soldiers. I agree that I am viewing his actions through modern sensibilities, but that should not be relevant in determining whether his actions were "good," "evil," or "neither," at least if one is an objectivist (oh jeez, sorry).

The only bullet I have a serious problem with is the first one. PLEASE don't suggest that it's ok to rape prostitutes as long as you pay them : / that's not cool dude.

Finally, of course prestige is important. Different people in GoT go to different lengths to obtain it, but I think all of them, from Eddard, to Littlefinger, to Tywin know how important it is. The lengths they will go to to get it is what distiguishes the good one from the bad ones. I believe Tywin would sacrifice anything for the prestige of his family, up to and including the lives of his children. Thus I characterize him as evil. However, evil is a very loaded term and I can accept that we have different views on it.

On May 30 2012 12:31 Whole wrote:
Isn't Jamie regarded as one of the best swordfighters by everyone though? That wouldn't seem like being overrated.