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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
I'd say the power rankings should have these people: Brienne Loras Tyrell Barristan Selmy Jaime Lannister Clegane brothers Robert ( He did beat the Dragon Prince Rhaegar ) Drogo Bronn ( Killed Ser Vardis Egen, champion of Vale of Arryn) Syrio Forel Ned (his past is very badass) http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2012/05/29/game-of-thrones-new-season-3-characters-revealed/ We get to meet the Tully family :D | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:02 Mercy13 wrote: I think we are in very real danger of getting into a debate over objective vs. subjective system of ethics... If that happens may the gods help us all : ) Your responses for the most part seem to be explaining the motivations behind Tywin's actions. I agree that those motivations are likely accurate, but that doesn't excuse his actions. For example, believing that an assassin is hiding in his army does not justify randomly hanging soldiers. I agree that I am viewing his actions through modern sensibilities, but that should not be relevant in determining whether his actions were "good," "evil," or "neither," at least if one is an objectivist (oh jeez, sorry). The only bullet I have a serious problem with is the first one. PLEASE don't suggest that it's ok to rape prostitutes as long as you pay them : / that's not cool dude. Finally, of course prestige is important. Different people in GoT go to different lengths to obtain it, but I think all of them, from Eddard, to Littlefinger, to Tywin know how important it is. The lengths they will go to to get it is what distiguishes the good one from the bad ones. I believe Tywin would sacrifice anything for the prestige of his family, up to and including the lives of his children. Thus I characterize him as evil. However, evil is a very loaded term and I can accept that we have different views on it. Well I'd like to claim ignorance when it comes to the hanged soldiers. We don't know how random their deaths were. When was rape ever mentioned with the prostitute? It wasn't mentioned whether it was consensual or not was it? Either way women were treated as property up until fairly recently in history so for the show it doesn't matter either way. Rape was not even a crime, unless it's a powerful woman ofcourse. As far as I understood it she was informed about the whole thing beforehand. In most countries a man raping his wife wasn't outlawed until the 20th century. Raping a prostitute while paying her ten fold wouldn't go far in a medieval court, I can tell you that. If you're worried for my personal views on prostitution, all I can tell you is that I'm happy to live where it's both illegal and considered utterly disgusting and pathetic to buy sex. Imo prostitution is practically synonymous to rape and modern day slavery. I don't think Tywin would ever sacrifice his children. That would nullify his entire point. He wants to create something that will withstand time itself. His family is his legacy. It's what will continue on after he's dead. I'd like to leave the discussion about good and evil as it's ultimately off topic. Edit. Ethics are imo very much so subjective so that's my point of view in the discussion. Tywin acts after the information he's got to work for the goal he has in mind. Edit2. I see Tywin in the light of what I would be imagine being medieval morals. By todays standards pretty much the entire cast would be in prison for first degree murder, so that's pointless. | ||
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nekoconeco
Australia359 Posts
On May 30 2012 11:50 UdderChaos wrote: anyone interested in the "power ranking" in the series (of hand to hand combat), after what Jamie said the other week im wondering who would go where at the moment: The old guy (kings guard bloke who was dismissed by Jeoffry and everyone was afraid to fight him) Jamie Ned (before he died he put up a good fight against jamie before someone else stepped in) Rob Stark possibly the butch women who's got Jamie captive? The Hound The Mountain Tywin Theon All i can think of right now, silly ranking i guess because we don't get to see them all fight, be that to me seems fair so far. You missed a lot of characters. Also Jamie seems pretty weak in general (although I guess he is strong for a Lannister). Khal Drogo Syrio Forel (Aria's sword-master) Jaqen H'ghar (Aria's assassin friend) The Hound Bronn Brienne of Tarth Rattleshirt aka Lord of Bones (guy with skull mask... seems tough) ... Jamie (seems really overrated though) Ned Stark Rob Stark Jon Snow Also Pyat Pree (the Qarth warlock) seems almost impossible to beat. | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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Mercy13
United States718 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:26 Euronyme wrote: Well I'd like to claim ignorance when it comes to the hanged soldiers. We don't know how random their deaths were. When was rape ever mentioned with the prostitute? It wasn't mentioned whether it was consensual or not was it? Either way women were treated as property up until fairly recently in history so for the show it doesn't matter either way. Rape was not even a crime, unless it's a powerful woman ofcourse. As far as I understood it she was informed about the whole thing beforehand. In most countries a man raping his wife wasn't outlawed until the 20th century. Raping a prostitute while paying her ten fold wouldn't go far in a medieval court, I can tell you that. If you're worried for my personal views on prostitution, all I can tell you is that I'm happy to live where it's both illegal and considered utterly disgusting and pathetic to buy sex. Imo prostitution is practically synonymous to rape and modern day slavery. I don't think Tywin would ever sacrifice his children. That would nullify his entire point. He wants to create something that will withstand time itself. His family is his legacy. It's what will continue on after he's dead. I'd like to leave the discussion about good and evil as it's ultimately off topic. Edit. Ethics are imo very much so subjective so that's my point of view in the discussion. Tywin acts after the information he's got to work for the goal he has in mind. Well you asked me what I thought Tywin had done which was evil, so I listed the things which I think were evil and then we were discussing them. You seem to be arguing that these things weren't evil because in the world of GoT they are common place (I'm not sure sure about this btw, the Starks, and others, would frown on that sort of behavior). Regardless, my personal view is that whether or not Tywin's actions are good or evil has nothing to do w/ the morality of his time. Many would dispute this, however, and we may just have to agree to disagree. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:34 Mercy13 wrote: Well you asked me what I thought Tywin had done which was evil, so I listed the things which I think were evil and then we were discussing them. You seem to be arguing that these things weren't evil because in the world of GoT they are common place (I'm not sure sure about this btw, the Starks, and others, would frown on that sort of behavior). Regardless, my personal view is that whether or not Tywin's actions are good or evil has nothing to do w/ the morality of his time. Many would dispute this, however, and we may just have to agree to disagree. Well yeah since I don't believe in good or evil the discussion was kind of pointless from the beginning I guess. Fair enough, agree to disagree ^^ | ||
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Raisauce
Canada864 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:17 BlindKill wrote: Robb,Jon and Theon are just bad. They are only as powerful as their liegelords/army. I'd say the power rankings should have these people: Brienne Loras Tyrell Barristan Selmy Jaime Lannister Clegane brothers Robert ( He did beat the Dragon Prince Rhaegar ) Drogo Bronn ( Killed Ser Vardis Egen, champion of Vale of Arryn) Syrio Forel Ned (his past is very badass) http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2012/05/29/game-of-thrones-new-season-3-characters-revealed/ We get to meet the Tully family :D Loras Tyrell shouldn't be that high up on the list. He is only renowned for his lance skills. Also, Barristan Selmy can beat Brienne easily in my opinion. Jaime right behind Barristan as well  . | ||
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thebigdonkey
United States354 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:31 Whole wrote: Isn't Jamie regarded as one of the best swordfighters by everyone though? That wouldn't seem like being overrated. Yes, he is. He said two episodes ago when Brienne was putting him in the boat that "there are 3 men in the kingdoms who might have a chance against me, you're not one of them." Back in season 1, you could tell that Ned was trying to avoid dueling him at all costs. Robb also declined a fight with him cause he admitted Jaime would win. He's not overrated (except maybe in leading armies). | ||
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thebigdonkey
United States354 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:49 Raisauce wrote: Loras Tyrell shouldn't be that high up on the list. He is only renowned for his lance skills. Also, Barristan Selmy can beat Brienne easily in my opinion. Jaime right behind Barristan as well .And Loras only beat The Mountain because he used a mare in heat (The Mountain always uses foul tempered stallions to joust, so the scent of the mare distracted the stallion). | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:50 thebigdonkey wrote: Yes, he is. He said two episodes ago when Brienne was putting him in the boat that "there are 3 men in the kingdoms who might have a chance against me, you're not one of them." Back in season 1, you could tell that Ned was trying to avoid dueling him at all costs. Robb also declined a fight with him cause he admitted Jaime would win. He's not overrated (except maybe in leading armies). Well in all fairness Ned probably didn't want to duel with him as that would escalate the whole situation. He can't win in that duel. If he loses - he's dead. If he wins - he's equally dead. Come to think of it.. in what way was Ned avoiding confrontation with Jamie? I thought Ned was pretty straight up about what his thoughts were. They didn't come close to dueling before Ned starting digging about Baratheons having black hair. | ||
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Tewks44
United States2032 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:17 BlindKill wrote: Robb,Jon and Theon are just bad. They are only as powerful as their liegelords/army. I'd say the power rankings should have these people: Brienne Loras Tyrell Barristan Selmy Jaime Lannister Clegane brothers Robert ( He did beat the Dragon Prince Rhaegar ) Drogo Bronn ( Killed Ser Vardis Egen, champion of Vale of Arryn) Syrio Forel Ned (his past is very badass) http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpinchefsky/2012/05/29/game-of-thrones-new-season-3-characters-revealed/ We get to meet the Tully family :D I'd say Barristan Selmy or Sandor Clegane is probably the best, but you gotta give Jaime a hand, too | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:50 thebigdonkey wrote: Back in season 1, you could tell that Ned was trying to avoid dueling him at all costs. Robb also declined a fight with him cause he admitted Jaime would win. He's not overrated (except maybe in leading armies). where did you get this from ? When they actually fought? Ned didnt want to duel him because there were 4 starks vs 20 Lanisters and if the Lanisters dont mind killing small children and assassinating hands of king why wouldnt Ned think the Lanisters would just kill him? Otherwise in that scene it looked like Ned was holding more than his own and he is a whole generation older than Jamie. | ||
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Mercy13
United States718 Posts
On May 30 2012 13:07 Whole wrote: Actually, I'd take Loras off. Do they ever say that he is good at fighting? Loras is a good fighter, but he has not been tested in real combat (ditto Brienne). I would not put them on the list, b/c they are unproven. | ||
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thebigdonkey
United States354 Posts
On May 30 2012 13:09 Sub40APM wrote: where did you get this from ? When they actually fought? Ned didnt want to duel him because there were 4 starks vs 20 Lanisters and if the Lanisters dont mind killing small children and assassinating hands of king why wouldnt Ned think the Lanisters would just kill him? Otherwise in that scene it looked like Ned was holding more than his own and he is a whole generation older than Jamie. There were several conversations (the other one that comes to mind was when Ned walked in on Jaime in the throne room). Jaime was always trying to provoke him and Ned didn't want any part of it. | ||
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Jergen
United States136 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:26 nekoconeco wrote: You missed a lot of characters. Also Jamie seems pretty weak in general (although I guess he is strong for a Lannister). Khal Drogo Syrio Forel (Aria's sword-master) Jaqen H'ghar (Aria's assassin friend) The Hound Bronn Brienne of Tarth Rattleshirt aka Lord of Bones (guy with skull mask... seems tough) ... Jamie (seems really overrated though) Ned Stark Rob Stark Jon Snow Also Pyat Pree (the Qarth warlock) seems almost impossible to beat. Jaime is one of the best swordsmen in the Seven Kingdoms, he's not overrated at all. None of the Starks are really all that good in the stories anyway. Jon's above average, he only kicks ass since the people he's training against are bad (he was trained, and they weren't, etc etc). Robb's a good tactician, but he's wouldn't be considered one of the best one on one. Ned used to be amazing, but he was past his prime by the time of the books. Overall, I'd say that the best for one-on-one combat would include: Jaime Lannister Khal Drogo Syrio Forel The Cleganes Bronn Barriston Selmy Brienne of Tarth Also, for characters who haven't been introduced, people like: spoilers User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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HyDrA_solic
Portugal491 Posts
Bronn, Jaime, Ned Stark, The Hound and Brienne are right behind. Drogo is a brute force, but we couldn't see him dueling vs. a swordfighter. Mormont is good too, but not that good. Young Robert Baratheon (he got fat) | ||
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Quexana
98 Posts
anyone interested in the "power ranking" in the series (of hand to hand combat), after what Jamie said the other week im wondering who would go where at the moment: I asked Hodor who he thought was the baddest Mother F'er in the Seven Kingoms was and he quickly gave me the answer. He gave me his top ten. 1. Hodor 2. Hodor 3. Hodor 4. Hodor 5. Hodor 6. Hodor 7. Hodor 8. Hodor 9. Hodor 10. Hodor | ||
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
On May 30 2012 13:17 HyDrA_solic wrote: Syrio, Ser Barristan and Stannis are my trio. Bronn, Jaime, Ned Stark, The Hound and Brienne are right behind. Drogo is a brute force, but we couldn't see him dueling vs. a swordfighter. Mormont is good too, but not that good. Young Robert Baratheon (he got fat) When you say Mormont, do you mean the Dany's knight/bodyguard? In the one fight that he had, he seemed to have been getting worked by that Dothraki, until...platemail. | ||
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