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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 25 2012 06:03 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 22:32 oYsteR wrote:On April 24 2012 11:13 Gondlem wrote:
Did anyone else feel that the scene with Joffrey and the two prostitutes kinda undermined the point of the previous scene with Sansa? I always thought that was a cool scene before seeing it translated to the show because it gives some context for Joffrey's horrible behaviour. That is, he's a bored, horny teenager with too much power and a desirable but sexually unavailable woman he is allowed to do whatever he wants with... aside from what he actually wants to do with her. So he has the guard beat and strip her in front of everyone. Adding in the scene with the two prostitutes and having them hurt each other just makes him seem like an aimless psychopath though. Removes a lot of the depth from his character. Yeah I think you've got this spot on. For me the last episode was quite markedly worse than the previous ones. Until this point the show has managed to tread the line very well between serious/dark and unrealistic/unbelievable, but the Joffrey scene was really unnecessary. Not only was it unpleasant, it made no virtue of its unpleasantness (i.e. we didn't discover anything new about him, but, as you said, his character was made far less interesting by basically being revealed as a total sadist with no redeeming qualities). Jaime is the perfect counterpoise to Joffrey at this point (in terms of how they've developed the characters). The former is a prick but you can see good qualities/he's charismatic, the latter is just a petulant 'evil' child. Also, I thought the scenes with Arya and the torture camp were equally pointless. Yeah it's a nasty, grim world, we get it, but again, this seem gratuitous without being interesting. Part of the appeal of the visceral moments in the show is that they happen (relatively) infrequently, whereas in this episode they were a little choc-a-bloc and lost a lot of their power. Additionally, does anyone else feel that with all the different storylines the show runs the risk of being a little too stretched? As in, we'll only get to see a few minutes for each subsection, which means they quickly become cliched/simplistic (as in Joffrey = evil; Daenerys = tough times in the desert etc). I realise all that looks very negative, but I do greatly enjoy the show! Absolutely incredible television, no doubt. We discovered that Joffery isn't a horny teenager, and that he's actually just really sadistic and power-drunk. We are learning things, you're just ignoring the new information and sticking with the old info. If you see the latter scene, it makes you think the previous scene with Sansa wasn't sexual at all, but instead just him degrading her and displaying his power. Dunno why a character has to have redeeming qualities to be interesting. Some characters are just straight-up evil, and I don't find them any less interesting than other characters.
But most people who've kept up with the show already know how sadistic Joffery is. Just like they know Littlefinger is an evil schemer (he betrayed two main characters in season 1 afterall).
That's my real issue with the whore scenes in season 2 in that they introduced next to nothing new (in other words: filler). To put things in perspective, Ros, LittleFinger, and Tyrion are the only 3 characters to appear in every episode in season 2. Now just because I'm complaining about prostitute sex, doesn't mean I'm critizing all nudity in the show.. there's been a lot that have kept me engaged (Margarey scene, Viserys bath scene, hell even the first Ros sex scene that introduced some complexities of Theon to the audience). Scenes like these work because we learn new stuff and is not just nudity for the sake of nudity.
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On April 25 2012 06:29 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:03 killa_robot wrote:On April 24 2012 22:32 oYsteR wrote:On April 24 2012 11:13 Gondlem wrote:
Did anyone else feel that the scene with Joffrey and the two prostitutes kinda undermined the point of the previous scene with Sansa? I always thought that was a cool scene before seeing it translated to the show because it gives some context for Joffrey's horrible behaviour. That is, he's a bored, horny teenager with too much power and a desirable but sexually unavailable woman he is allowed to do whatever he wants with... aside from what he actually wants to do with her. So he has the guard beat and strip her in front of everyone. Adding in the scene with the two prostitutes and having them hurt each other just makes him seem like an aimless psychopath though. Removes a lot of the depth from his character. Yeah I think you've got this spot on. For me the last episode was quite markedly worse than the previous ones. Until this point the show has managed to tread the line very well between serious/dark and unrealistic/unbelievable, but the Joffrey scene was really unnecessary. Not only was it unpleasant, it made no virtue of its unpleasantness (i.e. we didn't discover anything new about him, but, as you said, his character was made far less interesting by basically being revealed as a total sadist with no redeeming qualities). Jaime is the perfect counterpoise to Joffrey at this point (in terms of how they've developed the characters). The former is a prick but you can see good qualities/he's charismatic, the latter is just a petulant 'evil' child. Also, I thought the scenes with Arya and the torture camp were equally pointless. Yeah it's a nasty, grim world, we get it, but again, this seem gratuitous without being interesting. Part of the appeal of the visceral moments in the show is that they happen (relatively) infrequently, whereas in this episode they were a little choc-a-bloc and lost a lot of their power. Additionally, does anyone else feel that with all the different storylines the show runs the risk of being a little too stretched? As in, we'll only get to see a few minutes for each subsection, which means they quickly become cliched/simplistic (as in Joffrey = evil; Daenerys = tough times in the desert etc). I realise all that looks very negative, but I do greatly enjoy the show! Absolutely incredible television, no doubt. We discovered that Joffery isn't a horny teenager, and that he's actually just really sadistic and power-drunk. We are learning things, you're just ignoring the new information and sticking with the old info. If you see the latter scene, it makes you think the previous scene with Sansa wasn't sexual at all, but instead just him degrading her and displaying his power. Dunno why a character has to have redeeming qualities to be interesting. Some characters are just straight-up evil, and I don't find them any less interesting than other characters. But most people who've kept up with the show already know how sadistic Joffery is. Just like they know Littlefinger is an evil schemer (he betrayed two main characters in season 1 afterall). That's my real issue with the whore scenes in season 2 in that they introduced next to nothing new (in other words: filler). Now just because I'm complaining about prostitute sex, doesn't mean I'm critizing all nudity in the show.. there's been a lot that have kept me engaged (Margarey scene, Viserys bath scene, hell even the first Ros sex scene that introduced some complexities of Theon to the audience). Scenes like these work because we learn new stuff and is not just nudity for the sake of nudity.
sorry but I have to completely disagree. The nude scenes almost always add something valuable, even if we knew joffery is a evil prick, the show reinforces that same theme in many many different ways. The nude scene is one of those different ways and still gets that message across, making his character that much more interesting. It is also valuable to know that he did not sleep with the whores, which most kings would have easily been tempted to do. His pride and evil intents overshadow his desire to have sex, and since he is in his teens it means ALOT. Sex is a major driving force in GoT, and its used to show more about the characters, plus boobs are always good
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On April 25 2012 06:06 suxN wrote:
Whats with the dragons, seems like everyone wants dragons? Was the same thing with skyrim. Personally im liking this season just as much as season1, and to be honest im not missing the fights at all, actually i have reasons to believe i enjoy the series more because it lacks fights.
Then again i might be a bit special since i think lord of the rings episode 2 was really really boring movie, just because of the massive and long fightscenes.
I have to agree with that there is no need to show fights. I guess people see things differently what they really want from this show. For me its Loyalty and/or Charisma. Seeing how Eddark Stark, Tyrion, Tywin and Sansa do/did. Characters I don't really like to follow right now are Robb Stark and Catalyn Stark. They seem change their position too easily which I don't like.
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On April 25 2012 02:15 Mataru wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 02:13 funcmode wrote:
What was Arya saying while laying down at Harrenhal? I could hear Cersei and Joffrey but couldn't make out the rest. Polliver (the guy asking the questions during the "interrogation" I believe), Ser Ilyn Payne (The King's Justice, guy who cut Neds head off) and the Hound. Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 02:10 LoLAdriankat wrote:
They got the height right and I suppose the face is similar enough (with the helmet on at least), but his thin figure and shoulders make him look like a dufus in armor. "The Needle" would be a more suitable nickname than "The Mountain."
The vast majority of the cast is near perfect though, not everything can be great it seems. Are you talking about the tall guy who picked which prisoners were to be interrogated? Because that's not the same guy who played the Mountain in season 1, which leads to me believe that it's not meant to be the mountain. The Mountain from season 1 looks quite broad and big.
Polliver is the guy who took Needle (Arya's sword). The Tickler is the blonde man directing the torture.
The actor who played the mountain in season one had other commitments (filming the Hobbit, I believe), so they got a new actor. The new Mountain is the same actor that played the White Walker in season one.
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On April 25 2012 05:26 TheBanana wrote:
I'm a little disappointed at this season so far, maybe it's because season 1 was so good that my excpectations are too high.
It's like everything is moving so slowly and nothing is really happening. Status quo.
I'm hopeful we're going somewhere and will continue to watch closely to be be ready when things start happening again.
(I will spoiler this as I am basing it on the books, dont click if you dont want to know, but it does not 'spoil' the story in any way)
Regarding the pace of the series...
+ Show Spoiler +The pace slows down at the start of each book/season, and picks up towards the end. Season one was also very slow paced at the start because they had to introduce new characters. As book 3 is split into two seasons. the start of season 4 may not be slow. Book 3 is much faster paced than any of the others, but since they are splitting it into two seasons it should even out for the TV series.
User was warned for this post
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On April 25 2012 08:01 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:06 suxN wrote:
Whats with the dragons, seems like everyone wants dragons? Was the same thing with skyrim. Personally im liking this season just as much as season1, and to be honest im not missing the fights at all, actually i have reasons to believe i enjoy the series more because it lacks fights.
Then again i might be a bit special since i think lord of the rings episode 2 was really really boring movie, just because of the massive and long fightscenes. I have to agree with that there is no need to show fights. I guess people see things differently what they really want from this show. For me its Loyalty and/or Charisma. Seeing how Eddark Stark, Tyrion, Tywin and Sansa do/did. Characters I don't really like to follow right now are Robb Stark and Catalyn Stark. They seem change their position too easily which I don't like.
Haha, every time I reach Catelyn in the books, I power read through it.
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Catelyn as horrible as Lori from Walking Dead? I admit that I have a hard time enduring both ^^
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On April 25 2012 11:11 XenOmega wrote:
Catelyn as horrible as Lori from Walking Dead? I admit that I have a hard time enduring both ^^
They both care for their families, but they are way different
Lori is always unwilling to do things herself, and make others do her work or go out into the danger. Lori really doesn't see past her son and husband. She cheated on her husband, blames Shane for that, and she likes to bitch at people when things don't go as she expected them to.
Catelyn is willing to do thing herself (ride out to Barotheon camp / capture Tyrion). She might seem a little aggressive at times but she just lost her husband, she doesn't know where her children are, etc. She seems responsible and reasonable, a lot more so than Lori who just whines and makes others feed bad.
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United States13896 Posts
On April 25 2012 11:11 XenOmega wrote:
Catelyn as horrible as Lori from Walking Dead? I admit that I have a hard time enduring both ^^
Not even close. Lori blows all other competition away for worst mother on television. Catelyn isn't even annoying at all.
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On April 25 2012 09:03 beachbeachy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:01 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On April 25 2012 06:06 suxN wrote:
Whats with the dragons, seems like everyone wants dragons? Was the same thing with skyrim. Personally im liking this season just as much as season1, and to be honest im not missing the fights at all, actually i have reasons to believe i enjoy the series more because it lacks fights.
Then again i might be a bit special since i think lord of the rings episode 2 was really really boring movie, just because of the massive and long fightscenes. I have to agree with that there is no need to show fights. I guess people see things differently what they really want from this show. For me its Loyalty and/or Charisma. Seeing how Eddark Stark, Tyrion, Tywin and Sansa do/did. Characters I don't really like to follow right now are Robb Stark and Catalyn Stark. They seem change their position too easily which I don't like. Haha, every time I reach Catelyn in the books, I power read through it.
I'd take Cat over Dany any day of the week.
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On April 25 2012 11:44 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:11 XenOmega wrote:
Catelyn as horrible as Lori from Walking Dead? I admit that I have a hard time enduring both ^^ Not even close. Lori blows all other competition away for worst mother on television. Catelyn isn't even annoying at all.
This is true. I hate Lori more than I've hated any character in my life. Lori, or as I like to call her "annoying bitch", needs to die ASAP.
I'm pumped for the next episode! The Ghost Of Harrenhal.
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On April 25 2012 11:46 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:03 beachbeachy wrote:On April 25 2012 08:01 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On April 25 2012 06:06 suxN wrote:
Whats with the dragons, seems like everyone wants dragons? Was the same thing with skyrim. Personally im liking this season just as much as season1, and to be honest im not missing the fights at all, actually i have reasons to believe i enjoy the series more because it lacks fights.
Then again i might be a bit special since i think lord of the rings episode 2 was really really boring movie, just because of the massive and long fightscenes. I have to agree with that there is no need to show fights. I guess people see things differently what they really want from this show. For me its Loyalty and/or Charisma. Seeing how Eddark Stark, Tyrion, Tywin and Sansa do/did. Characters I don't really like to follow right now are Robb Stark and Catalyn Stark. They seem change their position too easily which I don't like. Haha, every time I reach Catelyn in the books, I power read through it. I'd take Cat over Dany any day of the week.
I like Dany's parts because she seems most likely to win in the end. (Or maybe Stannis)
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United States7639 Posts
On April 25 2012 11:46 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:03 beachbeachy wrote:On April 25 2012 08:01 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On April 25 2012 06:06 suxN wrote:
Whats with the dragons, seems like everyone wants dragons? Was the same thing with skyrim. Personally im liking this season just as much as season1, and to be honest im not missing the fights at all, actually i have reasons to believe i enjoy the series more because it lacks fights.
Then again i might be a bit special since i think lord of the rings episode 2 was really really boring movie, just because of the massive and long fightscenes. I have to agree with that there is no need to show fights. I guess people see things differently what they really want from this show. For me its Loyalty and/or Charisma. Seeing how Eddark Stark, Tyrion, Tywin and Sansa do/did. Characters I don't really like to follow right now are Robb Stark and Catalyn Stark. They seem change their position too easily which I don't like. Haha, every time I reach Catelyn in the books, I power read through it. I'd take Cat over Dany any day of the week.
I skip over everyone else's parts just to read Dany's lol. I like her parts the most in the show too. Except for Tyrion's scenes, of course ^^
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I like Dany's scenes best because of two reasons:
1. Emelia Clarke is hot as fuck.
2. Dragons.
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On April 25 2012 05:26 TheBanana wrote:
I'm a little disappointed at this season so far, maybe it's because season 1 was so good that my excpectations are too high.
It's like everything is moving so slowly and nothing is really happening. Status quo.
I'm hopeful we're going somewhere and will continue to watch closely to be be ready when things start happening again.
?? Have you heard of dramatic structure or plot - setting, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution - I learned about these things in elementary school. What book/movie/tv show that relies on plot have you seen that starts off with a bang and slows down throughout and ends with a mundane finale?
And why do people complain/want to complain? You are creating your own errors "Joffrey is too evil, this can't be really happening" - you know nothing about Joffrey, the show is telling you whats what and you're trying to debate it like they're wrong. You don't go outside and say "God, you discolored the grass, it is supposed to be lighter, come on, grass can't be THIS dark."
I will try my best to explain the episode. Joffrey was abusing Sansa, Tyrion noticed it and in order to show that Tyrion was NOT as evil as his nephew he attempted to not only HELP Sansa, but HELP his NEPHEW as well. To show that Tyrion did NOT hate his nephew (as his nephew may be beginning to believe) Tyrion thought he might buy his nephew a good time and now the show wants to show Joffrey is BEYOND help, Joffrey spits on Tyrion's gift and the show makes it quite plain that Joffrey is pushing Tyrion away AND showing that Joffrey is really quite fucked up. Try to see past the "Joffrey so BM, why does the show keep repeating that he's BM?" The show is trying to show Joffrey's relationship with his uncle falling to pieces as well as Tyrions heart for his family.
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On April 25 2012 12:00 politik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:46 moopie wrote:On April 25 2012 09:03 beachbeachy wrote:On April 25 2012 08:01 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On April 25 2012 06:06 suxN wrote:
Whats with the dragons, seems like everyone wants dragons? Was the same thing with skyrim. Personally im liking this season just as much as season1, and to be honest im not missing the fights at all, actually i have reasons to believe i enjoy the series more because it lacks fights.
Then again i might be a bit special since i think lord of the rings episode 2 was really really boring movie, just because of the massive and long fightscenes. I have to agree with that there is no need to show fights. I guess people see things differently what they really want from this show. For me its Loyalty and/or Charisma. Seeing how Eddark Stark, Tyrion, Tywin and Sansa do/did. Characters I don't really like to follow right now are Robb Stark and Catalyn Stark. They seem change their position too easily which I don't like. Haha, every time I reach Catelyn in the books, I power read through it. I'd take Cat over Dany any day of the week. I like Dany's parts because she seems most likely to win in the end. (Or maybe Stannis)
I hope Renly wins I like him
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I just assume that most viewers were too busy with their pants down, expecting some erotic Joffrey+Ros+Daisy action, to notice that Joffrey intended to send the prostitutes back to Tyrion as a "fuck you, Tyrion." It's like most viewers completely forgot that Tyrion made a fool out of King Joffrey just a few minutes ago in the throne room. Did that many people not catch Joffrey's order to Ros (not the spanking)?
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On April 25 2012 12:45 Sprungjeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 05:26 TheBanana wrote:
I'm a little disappointed at this season so far, maybe it's because season 1 was so good that my excpectations are too high.
It's like everything is moving so slowly and nothing is really happening. Status quo.
I'm hopeful we're going somewhere and will continue to watch closely to be be ready when things start happening again. ?? Have you heard of dramatic structure or plot - setting, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution - I learned about these things in elementary school. What book/movie/tv show that relies on plot have you seen that starts off with a bang and slows down throughout and ends with a mundane finale? And why do people complain/want to complain? You are creating your own errors "Joffrey is too evil, this can't be really happening" - you know nothing about Joffrey, the show is telling you whats what and you're trying to debate it like they're wrong. You don't go outside and say "God, you discolored the grass, it is supposed to be lighter, come on, grass can't be THIS dark." I will try my best to explain the episode. Joffrey was abusing Sansa, Tyrion noticed it and in order to show that Tyrion was NOT as evil as his nephew he attempted to not only HELP Sansa, but HELP his NEPHEW as well. To show that Tyrion did NOT hate his nephew (as his nephew may be beginning to believe) Tyrion thought he might buy his nephew a good time and now the show wants to show Joffrey is BEYOND help, Joffrey spits on Tyrion's gift and the show makes it quite plain that Joffrey is pushing Tyrion away AND showing that Joffrey is really quite fucked up. Try to see past the "Joffrey so BM, why does the show keep repeating that he's BM?" The show is trying to show Joffrey's relationship with his uncle falling to pieces as well as Tyrions heart for his family.
Nice post, thanks for writing it down better than I could've.
People are whining so much about unneccessary sex and cruelty. While I guess some scenes could have worked without whores and nudity, that is how they have chosen to show it. I don't think there is any sex scene so far that hasn't had something ,other than the sex itself, that needed to be shown.
In short: The sex and excessive cruely aren't necessary for the scenes to work, but at the same time the content that's being presented in those very scenes are.
As you pointed out, the scene where Joffrey tortured the whores is important to the character evolution of both Joff and Tyrion. You could argue they could've showed it in a "nicer" way for the viewers eyes, but I think it did an excellent job.
Brilliant little piece of humor with the "grass is too dark" comment as well haha.
On April 25 2012 13:03 Devise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 12:00 politik wrote:On April 25 2012 11:46 moopie wrote:On April 25 2012 09:03 beachbeachy wrote:On April 25 2012 08:01 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On April 25 2012 06:06 suxN wrote:
Whats with the dragons, seems like everyone wants dragons? Was the same thing with skyrim. Personally im liking this season just as much as season1, and to be honest im not missing the fights at all, actually i have reasons to believe i enjoy the series more because it lacks fights.
Then again i might be a bit special since i think lord of the rings episode 2 was really really boring movie, just because of the massive and long fightscenes. I have to agree with that there is no need to show fights. I guess people see things differently what they really want from this show. For me its Loyalty and/or Charisma. Seeing how Eddark Stark, Tyrion, Tywin and Sansa do/did. Characters I don't really like to follow right now are Robb Stark and Catalyn Stark. They seem change their position too easily which I don't like. Haha, every time I reach Catelyn in the books, I power read through it. I'd take Cat over Dany any day of the week. I like Dany's parts because she seems most likely to win in the end. (Or maybe Stannis) I hope Renly wins I like him
Yeah Renly I think Renly has a bright future
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Canada1637 Posts
On April 25 2012 11:44 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:11 XenOmega wrote:
Catelyn as horrible as Lori from Walking Dead? I admit that I have a hard time enduring both ^^ Not even close. Lori blows all other competition away for worst mother on television. Catelyn isn't even annoying at all.
Skyler from Breaking Bad by far the worst.
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On April 25 2012 01:38 Mogget wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:27 Hoon wrote:On April 24 2012 22:55 c0ldfusion wrote:On April 24 2012 21:45 pred470r wrote:
Why does everybody keep asking what the shadow is in a thread with no book spoilers? I mean if you want to find out, wait until next week or go ask in the spoiler thread, or just read the books, they are better than the series anyway. Why do people keep saying that the books are better than the series? You can't make a direct comparison between two completely different mediums. What does that even mean? The only valid comparison you can make would be other TV series that are adapted from a book or book series. Can you name one that's better than GoT? Edit: Or better yet, just don't even mention the books in this thread. You can compare the book and the series in a lot of different ways: the way the story is told, the characters and their personalities, etc. Comparing different series, on the other hand, makes no sense at all. By asking "can you name a series that is better than GoT?", you are trying to compare different genres. It's like saying "SC2 is better than Quake". If you want to make comparisons between TV series, then ask "Which series is better adapted from a book than GoT?" Personally, I think that the GoT TV series is pretty boring, since they don't change enough stuff from the book to keep the readers interested. The only reason reader would keep watching the series would be to see some cool CGI and fight scenes, which are completely screwed by their low budget. Stop talking about the book, no one cares, we like the series, we dont care if you like the book more. Shut up or get out of this thread. As someone said earlier, i dont even care if you've read the book, its a different thing, which i am not interested in. Which is why im in this thread, about something i AM interested in.
You should notice that I never mentioned anything related to the GoT book.
I answered the guy that was talking about comparing books to series and series to series.
Maybe you should read posts before answering them. ^_^
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