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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 17 2012 20:40 pettter wrote:
I agree that Gendry is not likely to be a trueborn heir of Robert and Cersei. However, considering some of Cersei's words on the subject, I am highly sceptical as to the death of the first black-haired heir being from natural causes. In particular, it being a quick and powerful fever (kind of like the death of Jon Arryn). I don't think Cersei would be the culprit in this case though. She's not enough of a bitch to kill her own child just to spite Robert. It might be a plot from the other Lannisters, but I'm not sure if that rings entirely true either..
Well once again, Varys stated that other forces with their own motivations may influence the kingdom's faith lately ... Not only the Lannisters (represented by Cersei).
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On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 20:06 Emix_Squall wrote:
But I still believe that Gendry is much more than a simpler bastard, there's too much coincidence about him and from a pure scenario point of view, there's no reason for the story to focus on one bastard more than another for now. Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important. Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point. Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems".
Stannis has only one daughter. So yea, only bastards of Roberts are any form of descendants.
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Huh, I've read all the books and... I find the series better than the book... thats a first. O_O.
And rofl... in the tv series 'Lord Snow' reminds me so much of HuK ... ~.~
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On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now.
Eddard Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Eddard Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne.
EDIT: Confused the names.
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On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne.
No he didn't(It was Eddard not Rob btw). He considered Stannis the rightful heir to the throne. A bastard can't inherit anything, the eldest brother is next in the line of succession if there are no trueborn children.
The importance of Genry to Eddard was that it help point him in the direction that Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella looked nothing like him.
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On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne.
I don't think so. Wouldn't Rob consider Stannis the heir?
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On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne.
This is all sorts of wrong. He sent the letter to Stannis about the children being illegitimate because Stannis is the true heir
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On April 17 2012 22:53 feanor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne. No he didn't(It was Eddard not Rob btw). He considered Stannis the rightful heir to the throne. A bastard can't inherit anything, the eldest brother is next in the line of succession if there are no trueborn children. The importance of Genry to Eddard was that it help point him in the direction that Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella looked nothing like him.
That's exactly it. Considering Gendry as the bastard (and nothing more) he is at this point in the story, the only importance he had regarding the inheritance of the throne was from a purely physical point of view, proving that a Baratheon child should look more like him, and therefore pointing at the fact that the 3 other children were probably not Robert's.
Now I still go back to saying he is probably Cersei and Robert's lost/dead child ... but noone seems to agree with me on that here :D
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Gendry explicitly say that his mother was a barmaid and died early in his childhood. And I see no reason to doubt that
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On April 17 2012 22:53 feanor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne. No he didn't(It was Eddard not Rob btw). He considered Stannis the rightful heir to the throne. A bastard can't inherit anything, the eldest brother is next in the line of succession if there are no trueborn children. The importance of Genry to Eddard was that it help point him in the direction that Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella looked nothing like him.
No, I think he wanted Gendry to inherit the throne. He considered it the dying wish of Robert Baratheon, that he should put his son on the throne, that´s what I get from him changing the kings will. He wrote that the will of the king was that his son should inherit, referring to Gendry.
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On April 17 2012 23:13 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:53 feanor1 wrote:On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne. No he didn't(It was Eddard not Rob btw). He considered Stannis the rightful heir to the throne. A bastard can't inherit anything, the eldest brother is next in the line of succession if there are no trueborn children. The importance of Genry to Eddard was that it help point him in the direction that Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella looked nothing like him. No, I think he wanted Gendry to inherit the throne. He considered it the dying wish of Robert Baratheon, that he should put his son on the throne, that´s what I get from him changing the kings will. He wrote that the will of the king was that his son should inherit, referring to Gendry.
Eddard definitely considered Stannis the rightful heir. He said so many times. He also wrote a letter to Stannis informing him about the whole situation. Moreover, he called Gendry a bastard. Eddard would not consider Gendry as the rightful heir unless Robert had legitimized him. He changed the letter from saying "Joffrey" to sayin "the rightful heir", not to "my son". If Eddard wanted Gendry on the throne, he would not have insisted to Renly and Petyr that Stannis should have the throne. He would also probably have secured Gendry in some way.
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On April 17 2012 23:10 Skilledblob wrote:
Gendry explicitly say that his mother was a barmaid and died early in his childhood. And I see no reason to doubt that
When he talks so explicitly about his mom being a barmaid and dying early, he only refers to thing he was told when he grew up (wouldn't make sense that he remembers this kind of thing himself, how can a newborn be conscious about his mom's job?), and it's not like he lives in a world were people lie and conspire ... oh wait ...
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On April 17 2012 23:05 KOFgokuon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne. This is all sorts of wrong. He sent the letter to Stannis about the children being illegitimate because Stannis is the true heir
It's one of the reasons he declined Renly's 100 swords at the night of Roberts death. Renly offered 100 swords to Ned to support him over Stannis but he declined because Stannis was the next in line and not Renly.
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Gendry is not Cersei's child...If you actually believe that Gendry is the son of Rob and Cersei, then why would she choose to put an illegitimate child (Joff) on the throne and pretend he is trueborn when there actually is a trueborn child (Gendry) and lie and say he is a bastard? Just so Jamie and Cersie can chuckle behind Robert's back??? Just no, LOL
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On April 17 2012 23:34 LilClinkin wrote:
Gendry is not Cersei's child...If you actually believe that Gendry is the son of Rob and Cersei, then why would she choose to put an illegitimate child (Joff) on the throne and pretend he is trueborn when there actually is a trueborn child (Gendry) and lie and say he is a bastard? Just so Jamie and Cersie can chuckle behind Robert's back??? Just no, LOL
Read before posting plz, what you say makes no sense you're mixing up everything
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spoil spoil spoil
User was temp banned for this post.
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edit: oops didn't realize this was the non-spoiler thread
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On April 17 2012 23:13 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:53 feanor1 wrote:On April 17 2012 22:49 Forumite wrote:On April 17 2012 20:29 Emix_Squall wrote:On April 17 2012 20:14 Redox wrote:
Well he maybe the only bastard that is left, so that alone makes him very important.
Add to that that both Renly and Stannis have no kids so far (I believe) he might be the only Baratheon descendant at this point.
Btw this thought also shows why it is that important that Renly overcomes his "problems". Well the fact is, if he's Robert's bastard he's a Summer or whatever you call bastards in King's Landing, not a Baratheon at all. He has no claim on anything at all as far as his Baratheon lineage go. Just like Jon Snow as no claim to Winterfell ... they're bastards that's the point. Jofrey and the Queen are afraid bastards may become a problem so they anticipate it by killing them all but it doesn't make Gendry a better claim to the throne at the moment. Now if he is more than a simple bastard like I think he is, it's another story, but they don't know anything about that now. Rob Stark thought Gendry was important. It was clear that he planned to put Gendry on the throne, with the change to the Kings will (changed "My son Geoffrey" to "My rightfull heir"). Gendry wasn´t recognized, but Rob Stark still considered him the next in line to the throne. No he didn't(It was Eddard not Rob btw). He considered Stannis the rightful heir to the throne. A bastard can't inherit anything, the eldest brother is next in the line of succession if there are no trueborn children. The importance of Genry to Eddard was that it help point him in the direction that Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella looked nothing like him. No, I think he wanted Gendry to inherit the throne. He considered it the dying wish of Robert Baratheon, that he should put his son on the throne, that´s what I get from him changing the kings will. He wrote that the will of the king was that his son should inherit, referring to Gendry.
Brah, Ned Stark would never put a bastard on the throne unless there was no clear line of succession.
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On April 17 2012 23:42 Skilledblob wrote:
spoil spoil spoil.
edit: Guess I just responded to a major spoiler. Altough I still think its simply completely wrong.
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On April 17 2012 23:42 Skilledblob wrote:
spoil spoil spoil.
Edit: OHHHHH F**** seriously so it was a spoiler !!! Hope he's banned!
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EPT
