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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 252
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Laids
United Kingdom596 Posts
Oh reddit... | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On June 17 2011 03:09 Odoakar wrote: I don't think it's a hole in the plot, it's been mentioned several time that there are dozen of small tunnels and passages beneath the Wall that wildlings used to use go south of the wall. I wouldn't be suprised if the guy stumbled on one of them in his run from the horrors he'd seen. And on the matters of law, Kingslayer was pardoned for his acts, as many of the smaller lords that stood by Targaryens. The Nightwatch is a life sentence, and one rarely can get a pardon to leave. Ned really had no other choice but to execute the deserter. Why would he ever believe a story about wraiths, undead and what not.. Well I already said this many times but it seems nobody is reading what is said before but comes in all time with same things. This whole talk started with the assumption that Ned believes the deserter that he really did see the White Walker and that the White Walker did scare him. Why? Because my claim is that in that case there is a strong chance that he would not have beheaded him just like that but done something else with him (like send him to the wall so Lord Commander can debrief him). And all of that is important because this first scene is directly connected with the last Ned scene, his own beheading with his own sword. He was beheaded for treason by a king that did not know the truth just like Ned did not believe the truth (and he had no reason to) of the deserter and beheaded him for it. And some people claimed that it did not matter if Ned knew the truth or not, that he would behead him in both situations so that makes his own beheading different so they cannot be compared or something. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On June 17 2011 03:12 visual77 wrote: I don't want to come off as being mean... but what are you actually arguing for? I've been reading several pages of this discussion between you and several others, and you keep refuting people's statements, but I can't actually figure out what you're side of this discussion is. I explained that in my last post just before this one (for X time as new people come in, do not read what is said before and say same things to my posts that were already discussed). Maybe you are right, this might be pointless. | ||
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kingcoyote
United States546 Posts
On June 17 2011 03:40 -Archangel- wrote: I explained that in my last post just before this one (for X time as new people come in, do not read what is said before and say same things to my posts that were already discussed). Maybe you are right, this might be pointless. No, you answered it completely in your last post. I do see your point and I do think you've got a very interesting point. Joffrey executed Ned because he fully believed him to have been a traitor who attempted to usurp the throne, just as Ned executed Will because he believed him to have been a deserter of the Night's Watch. The only real question is whether or not running from the White Walkers is enough of a mitigating factor in Will's execution to give him any kind of reprieve. I don't think it is, since the Night's Watch exists to defend the realm from exactly that. If Ned fully believed Will, that should give *more* reason to execute Will, since that means he not only fled from the wall, but he abandoned his primary duty (even if that duty hasn't been exercised in a very long time). As far as debriefing Will and getting the information of the White Walkers out to the Night's Watch, do we know that Ned didn't allow that? He spoke to Benjen and the conversation made it sound like Benjen, the First Ranger of the Night's Watch, was aware of the claims that Will had made. Perhaps Ned got full statements from Will and then executed him. I can't remember the exact timing, but was Benjen in Winterfell when this happened? Is that the reason Benjen went to Winterfell in the first place? | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On June 17 2011 04:06 visual77 wrote: The only real question is whether or not running from the White Walkers is enough of a mitigating factor in Will's execution to give him any kind of reprieve. I don't think it is, since the Night's Watch exists to defend the realm from exactly that. If Ned fully believed Will, that should give *more* reason to execute Will, since that means he not only fled from the wall, but he abandoned his primary duty (even if that duty hasn't been exercised in a very long time). The Night's Watch has completely forgotten about the White Walkers, not "hasn't exercised the duty in a long time". There's a large difference between the two phrases. It's gotten to the point that the Walkers are an eight-thousand year old legend. The Night's Watch doesn't even arm their soldiers with weapons that can hurt the damned things, iron swords shatter on contact. The average soldier on the Wall didn't even know what a "Walker" was, they don't know how to read and have had no maester since birth to tell them. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On June 17 2011 04:06 visual77 wrote: No, you answered it completely in your last post. I do see your point and I do think you've got a very interesting point. Joffrey executed Ned because he fully believed him to have been a traitor who attempted to usurp the throne, just as Ned executed Will because he believed him to have been a deserter of the Night's Watch. The only real question is whether or not running from the White Walkers is enough of a mitigating factor in Will's execution to give him any kind of reprieve. I don't think it is, since the Night's Watch exists to defend the realm from exactly that. If Ned fully believed Will, that should give *more* reason to execute Will, since that means he not only fled from the wall, but he abandoned his primary duty (even if that duty hasn't been exercised in a very long time). As far as debriefing Will and getting the information of the White Walkers out to the Night's Watch, do we know that Ned didn't allow that? He spoke to Benjen and the conversation made it sound like Benjen, the First Ranger of the Night's Watch, was aware of the claims that Will had made. Perhaps Ned got full statements from Will and then executed him. I can't remember the exact timing, but was Benjen in Winterfell when this happened? Is that the reason Benjen went to Winterfell in the first place? Will(Gared) was supposed to be crazed with fear (will not use the B word so I do not get warned :D) and the comparison with Ned's beheading would have made more sense. It should have been clear that Will has basically lost his mind. And you cannot accuse someone of desertion and kill him when he is not acting rationally (in that case he could not have sent him back to the wall for debriefing as well). But even they way it was shown works when I think about it, even with Ned still killing him if he knew the truth about what Will saw. Joffrey would probably still behead Ned if he knew the truth just to save himself. So in this the two beheadings were also similar. The only difference is the one was just and the other one not although on could argue if it still just to kill deserters in these situations or some other solution can be found. As far as Benjen, it was shown he came to Winterfel at the time the King came. So he was not there before. And Will was not debriefed off-screen by Ned before the beheading, that would kind of been important to show the viewers. I got the impression Benjen knew something was wrong, but not about White Walkers which is confirmed in the last episodes where we see how they are all confused when that Wight attacks Jon and Lord Commander. If Benjen knew about wights and white walkers I am sure other Night Watchmen would too. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4203 Posts
Poll: How did you find out about this show? Read the Books (95) TL Thread (88) TV/Internet/Radio (34) Friends, Family etc. (25) Others (12) Magazines (0) 254 total votes Your vote: How did you find out about this show? (Vote): Read the Books I found out about it from the TL thread when it got bumped to the top every now and then in the General forum and couldn't help but to click on it and now I'm loving it! | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
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Lamppost
Canada317 Posts
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kingcoyote
United States546 Posts
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Sra
Netherlands75 Posts
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Sra
Netherlands75 Posts
OMG i cant stop watching this LOL! | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
the likes to dislikes ratio is hilarious like one of the most extreme i've ever seen | ||
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Ren91
United Kingdom190 Posts
On June 17 2011 06:33 travis wrote: the likes to dislikes ratio is hilarious like one of the most extreme i've ever seen Those 6 people 100% missclicked | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
Probably 90% of deserters say they saw White Walkers or similar and thats why it's not believed. And even if Ned did believe it he still would have an obligation to punish him because the man did not report it to his superiors. Seeing as he didn't report it, it's perfectly logical to assume the man just thought up the story when he was captured as a last ditch effort. (Obviously this isn't correct, but it's how you would percieve it) As for Ned's exeuction, Joffrey does not know that he himself is a bastard so he see's Ned as an usurper trying to take the throne. Given the bad blood between the Starks in the Lannisters, he already doesn't like Ned and thus see's him as a threat. In the Realm's eyes, he is perfectly justified in executing Ned. (Although we know he's not, Joffrey himself believes he is, and rightfully so) | ||
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Babaganoush
United States626 Posts
On one hand, he's part of the Lannisters, the House I so greatly despise... On the other hand, he seems like he's just a guy who gets picked on all the time by his own family... I don't know if he's evil.. good.. or whatever. If you were putting it in a spectrum, Ned Stark was obviously "Lawful Good" but what of Tyrion? | ||
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Cylon
United States124 Posts
On June 17 2011 08:40 Babaganoush wrote: How exactly do I feel about Tyrion? On one hand, he's part of the Lannisters, the House I so greatly despise... On the other hand, he seems like he's just a guy who gets picked on all the time by his own family... I don't know if he's evil.. good.. or whatever. If you were putting it in a spectrum, Ned Stark was obviously "Lawful Good" but what of Tyrion? Chaotic neutral. | ||
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lixlix
United States482 Posts
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Acid~
Thailand442 Posts
On June 17 2011 08:40 Babaganoush wrote: How exactly do I feel about Tyrion? On one hand, he's part of the Lannisters, the House I so greatly despise... On the other hand, he seems like he's just a guy who gets picked on all the time by his own family... I don't know if he's evil.. good.. or whatever. If you were putting it in a spectrum, Ned Stark was obviously "Lawful Good" but what of Tyrion? Tyrion wants to live a long life, so his first priority is to protect himself. He follows his own moral code, and works for the good of his family. In MtG he would be mostly blue with a bit of black, don't know about DnD :p | ||
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