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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1809

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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8990 Posts
May 20 2019 12:56 GMT
#36161
At least this episode give us this amazing comment;

"Bran be like:
-Chaos is a ramp"
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Bacillus
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland2071 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 13:22:34
May 20 2019 13:05 GMT
#36162
On May 20 2019 21:19 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2019 20:19 sharkie wrote:
On May 20 2019 20:07 Warri wrote:
[image loading]
46:29 on Amazon HBO


I never paid much attention to those kind of things but is it usual in TV that those kind of mishaps happen?

Yeah, even in big budget movies. Brave heart has a famous moment where a Scottish warrior trips and you can totally see his boxers under his kilt. Other period pieces have moments where you can see the sneakers the women are wearing under the very long dresses.

I think big battle scenes with wide camera angles, extras and action are very tricky in terms of mistakes. Gladiator and Braveheart have a few silly things each at the very least.

The small scale prop stuff happens far more rarely, but I'm quite sure some of that happens here and there too. Maybe recurring mistakes hint a bit at inexperienced or rushed production, but I don't think that's the biggest flaw at this point.
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
May 20 2019 13:08 GMT
#36163
On May 20 2019 19:14 Broetchenholer wrote:
I was okay with it. Sure, it made no sense that after all that horrible horrible genocide of last episode, somehow now everything is peace after the queen was murdered, but who the fuck cares, right. I for one do not, anymore. The episode was all right and it is over now. By the way, ask the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation how well it tends to work out if you let your powerful lords elect the King. Muhahaha, Westeros is fuuuucked.

Thats a valid point i agree with. This may seem like a happy end with "yay the first steps to democracy" but in a couple of generastions this may very well end up as bad as before. However this is not the problem of GoT even though i wished they had ended on a better note.
Independence of the north is the most idiotic thing though. The leaders of all these kkngdoms that want independence for so long (like dorne and iron islands) are just okay with Sansa casually dropping a "yeah my brother is king but we are gonna be independent though" and noone even tries to argue that..
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
May 20 2019 13:11 GMT
#36164
Really underwhelming ending, the only good part (if we accept dany as crazy, god complex lady) was the start where she held her speeches.
Her death didn't really have much impact because i never believed in dany + jon as the dream couple and everything around it wasn't developed enough either.
After her death we basically jump to comedy mode with the council of the lords and bran of all people becoming king (and everyone is just ok with it because of that tyrion speech? ok)
Jon has to join the nightswatch which has no reason to exist anymore because of the unsullied who leave westeros though, would have been the easiest pardon of bran's life. Assuming that jon's faith will be similar in the books, i'd wager that there will be a reason for the nightswatch still existing (others aren't exactly defeated?)

I am not even sure which ending sucked more, lost's or GoT's :/
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
May 20 2019 13:22 GMT
#36165
On May 20 2019 22:08 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2019 19:14 Broetchenholer wrote:
I was okay with it. Sure, it made no sense that after all that horrible horrible genocide of last episode, somehow now everything is peace after the queen was murdered, but who the fuck cares, right. I for one do not, anymore. The episode was all right and it is over now. By the way, ask the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation how well it tends to work out if you let your powerful lords elect the King. Muhahaha, Westeros is fuuuucked.


Independence of the north is the most idiotic thing though. The leaders of all these kkngdoms that want independence for so long (like dorne and iron islands) are just okay with Sansa casually dropping a "yeah my brother is king but we are gonna be independent though" and noone even tries to argue that..

Yara 'kind of forgot' about independence for the Iron Islands probably
Neosteel Enthusiast
Rasalased
Profile Joined May 2019
89 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 13:29:58
May 20 2019 13:23 GMT
#36166
On May 20 2019 19:57 Bacillus wrote:
The thing I wonder and worry is what kind of conclusions people responsible for financially greenlighting these shows draw from the backlash of s8.

Apparently back when the Revenant was being filmed and it blew the budget and got delayed and all that, there was serious worry how it'll affect other upcoming film projects. Luckily it turned out great in the end and did well in the box office. Had it been a catastrophic failure, it would have likely caused the financers to play a lot safer and nobody would have got to do the ambitious stuff any time soon.

I'm not sure how that'll translate to a series that has had its success on previous years though, but I fear somehow it may lead to much more middle of the road productions in the near future.


I have no idea what the people in charge in Hollywood are thinking. I have heard people say that doing this SF and fantasy genre is really hurting Hollywood because it is so expensive. But that is their own fucking problem, because their business model is basically to one-up the last movie in terms of special effects and production value. That is the way they keep things going. These movies aren't competing with each other on plot or dialogue. And Star Trek and Game of Thrones have the same problem.


Take Star Trek Discovery. It took 8 million per episode to shoot. And STD looked absolutely beautiful. The sets and the attention to detail was insane. Also didn't hear about coffee cups of water bottles. But the story was absolutely terrible. Much much worse on so many levels that GoT. Why?

It is fucking cheap to hire some good writers. Put people in a room, have them talk about stuff. And cut it into an episode. Original Star Trek was produced on almost no budget. It was a cheap ass show. Season 1 GoT skipped battles because they didn't have the money for it. Yes Game of Thrones turned into a show were every battle had to be bigger and more epic than the last one, to keep the hype train going.

Marvel superhero movies are doing the same thing.


In my job I do a lot of writing. We write scientific articles and they have to be really good. We keep going over and over them to improve, but it is only 2% of our actual job. And then when we publish, often we think "No one is ever going to read this shit." and we are happy we get a couple of citations. And when we make a mistake, our mistake gets ripped to shreds.

Compare this with the script for the king voting scene in GoT. These people had 8 years to come up with it. They get paid 0.5-1 million per episode. Whatever they put down on paper, millions are going to watch. There must be like a 10,000,000 factor of how much time the creators spend into thinking about their story. And how much effort their fans put in thinking about the story. I get that it is hard to please your entire audience. But this isn't about that.

I really wonder how this writing process goes. I get the feeling it gets mixed in with shooting the scenes and that things are rewritten all the time and there is no time to fix errors. So some of this writing is rushed. If I was in charge, I would literally hire one of two people whose full-time job is just to shoot holes in what the writers come up with. But I guess their production process doesn't even allow that. How many drafts do you think some of these important dialogues had? And for all these plot holes, I can imagine this meeting where maybe d&d introduce their story idea, with the plot hole, and people just look at them and have given up about even pointing out the plot holes. People must have been ground down so hard by the entire production process to think "Lets just get this all finished" rather than try to be an annoying smart-ass and shoot down the absurd story ideas.

In Star Trek Discovery, the writing is not even consistent from scene to scene. GoT is still relatively good. People complain about what d&d forgot what happens seasons ago. In STD, it seems that there are two or more writing teams that aren't even aware of what the other team is writing down. The audience gets sold a plot idea in one scene, and in the other scene that idea is already contradicted or out of the window.

Imagine they did Game of Thrones without any book material? The same concept and ambition, but Hollywood just comes up with it all on their own. Well, that is what might be happening now.

So why doesn't Hollywood produce extremely well-written tv series/movies that are cheap to produce? I fucking don't know. But I guess they did do that with shows like Friends and The Big Bang Theory.
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 13:27:19
May 20 2019 13:25 GMT
#36167
On May 20 2019 22:23 Rasalased wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2019 19:57 Bacillus wrote:
The thing I wonder and worry is what kind of conclusions people responsible for financially greenlighting these shows draw from the backlash of s8.

Apparently back when the Revenant was being filmed and it blew the budget and got delayed and all that, there was serious worry how it'll affect other upcoming film projects. Luckily it turned out great in the end and did well in the box office. Had it been a catastrophic failure, it would have likely caused the financers to play a lot safer and nobody would have got to do the ambitious stuff any time soon.

I'm not sure how that'll translate to a series that has had its success on previous years though, but I fear somehow it may lead to much more middle of the road productions in the near future.


I have no idea what the people in charge in Hollywood are thinking. I have heard people say that doing this SF and fantasy genre is really hurting Hollywood because it is so expensive. But that is their own fucking problem, because their business model is basically to one-up the last movie in terms of special effects and production value. That is the way they keep things going. These movies aren't competing with each other on plot or dialogue. And Star Trek and Game of Thrones have the same problem.


Take Star Trek Discovery. It took 8 million per episode to shoot. And STD looked absolutely beautiful. The sets and the attention to detail was insane. Also didn't hear about coffee cups of water bottles. But the story was absolutely terrible. Much much worse on so many levels that GoT. Why?

It is fucking cheap to hire some good writers. Put people in a room, have them talk about stuff. And cut it into an episode. Original Star Trek was produced on almost no budget. It was a cheap ass show. Season 1 GoT skipped battles because they didn't have the money for it. Yes Game of Thrones turned into a show were every battle had to be bigger and more epic than the last one, to keep the hype train going.

Marvel superhero movies are doing the same thing.


In my job I do a lot of writing. We write scientific articles and they have to be really good. We keep going over and over them to improve, but it is only 2% of our actual job. And then when we publish, often we think "No one is ever going to read this shit." and we are happy we get a couple of citations. And when we make a mistake, our mistake gets ripped to shreds.

Compare this with the script for the king voting scene in GoT. These people had 8 years to come up with it. They get paid 0.5-1 million per episode. Whatever they put down on people, millions are going to watch. There must be like a 10,000,000 factor of how much time the creators spend into thinking about their story. And how much effort their fans put in thinking about the story. I get that it is hard to please your entire audience. But this isn't about that.

Imagine they did Game of Thrones without any book material? The same concept and ambition, but Hollywood just comes up with it all on their own. Well, that is what might be happening now.

So why doesn't Hollywood produce extremely well-written tv series/movies that are cheap to produce? I fucking don't know. But I guess they did do that with shows like Friends and The Big Bang Theory.

This is something that also baffles me. Why were D&D even put in charge of the writing in the first place? With GoTs massive budget surely they couldve hired a couple of decent script writers to make a decent story. Is this just some hollywood politics kind of thing?
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
Rasalased
Profile Joined May 2019
89 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 14:18:37
May 20 2019 13:36 GMT
#36168
I think there must be that notion that fans don't care about writing. I used to buy into this idea that people in charge in Hollywood think that people that actually go to movies are just bunch of young people that just step in to be blown away by the spectacle. And that these people are from the generation with zero attention span. Almost all people in Hollywood are middle-aged and old white guys. They are like the music industry executives; totally out of touch with what is actually happening among their audience. And they definitely aren't creating what they themselves would like.

Hollywood has become this super high odds casino. A movie is so expensive to make, they have huge teams of people trying to reduce the risk. Which is why it surprised me so much that Daenerys burned down KL. There is no room for risque or edgy writing, or even new stories. And all young and creative people are on a leech.
Have you though about how absurd it is that almost everything Hollywood puts out is either a comic book, a remake, a reboot, based on literature. There are almost zero original ideas in Hollywood.

With social media and critics on Youtube, there are now news articles in the mainstream media about how 'toxic' and 'entitled' the fans have become. And the spin is that the fans are going too far in being negative. The idea that writing is important and has to be better seems non-existing.


This is something that also baffles me. Why were D&D even put in charge of the writing in the first place? With GoTs massive budget surely they couldve hired a couple of decent script writers to make a decent story. Is this just some hollywood politics kind of thing?


Well, GoT did have good original writing in the earlier seasons. So d&d ought to have been capable of writing a good ending to GoT. Maybe they needed more help. Surely they needed more time/episodes. But probably they stopped caring. And maybe thinking you created the greatest tv show in history with your writing goes to you head?
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32749 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 13:44:36
May 20 2019 13:42 GMT
#36169
The most memorable and acclaimed shows weren't made memorable because of their flashy visual effects and explosions, but because of a good script and a plot that made sense backed with thematic heft, aka good writing. Think of Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and The Wire. They may not have been as popular or spawned as much merchandising, but I think those are the kinds of shows that will be remembered more fondly than GoT ever could. GoT burned a lot of goodwill in the past few seasons, and I fear people will recall it not very nicely in the next decade when we're all reminiscing about the great shows.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44173 Posts
May 20 2019 14:01 GMT
#36170
Dany + Drogon fly away without telling anyone where they went the way they always do.

Jon: I told her I wanted to break up and she took it badly and burned a bunch of stuff then said "I need to go think about some stuff" and flew away. She said I was in charge while she was gone.

*fin*
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
May 20 2019 14:03 GMT
#36171
I think the emotional impact on me for Jon+Dany is entirely on this idea that Jon has now had to basically kill two of the people he's deeply loved. He didn't shoot Ygritte, but he may as well have really.

----

Otherwise it felt completely serviceable? I think the season is better off after 6 episodes than it was after 4 or 5 so that's good. I didn't hate any of the scenes, thought there were good moments.

----

What's the point of it all though? Is there really a theme or underlying message here? Coming into episode 6 you'd argue there's an underlying theme of power corrupts and no one is truly good or bad. But that kind of falls apart when you appoint a god-king who's only ever done the right thing.
Logo
Rasalased
Profile Joined May 2019
89 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 14:06:30
May 20 2019 14:05 GMT
#36172
On May 20 2019 23:01 KwarK wrote:
Dany + Drogon fly away without telling anyone where they went the way they always do.

Jon: I told her I wanted to break up and she took it badly and burned a bunch of stuff then said "I need to go think about some stuff" and flew away. She said I was in charge while she was gone.

*fin*


I thought about doing it that way. Drogon and Daenery just suddenly being gone and no one knowing what happened, except for Jon.

But of course Jon is Jon so he would turn himself in and admit to what he did. If they had Drogon fly away and they obscured Daenerys in his claws, they would have needed a scene of Jon telling Grey Worm what happened. So we would have this scene of Jon saying "Well she just left and now I am king." and then Grey Worm, "OK, yes my king!"

That wouldn't have been a believable scene either.
Hyperbola
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2554 Posts
May 20 2019 14:05 GMT
#36173
Thank god it's over. I'm absolutely sick of GoT.

Terrible, hamfisted, rushed ending - as expected. Whatever. We're all over it by now. Let it die.
####
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 14:15:08
May 20 2019 14:12 GMT
#36174
At least we have memes

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Neosteel Enthusiast
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
May 20 2019 14:23 GMT
#36175
On May 20 2019 23:03 Logo wrote:
What's the point of it all though? Is there really a theme or underlying message here? Coming into episode 6 you'd argue there's an underlying theme of power corrupts and no one is truly good or bad. But that kind of falls apart when you appoint a god-king who's only ever done the right thing.

There isn't one, D&D are on record saying that themes are for eighth-grade book reports. So just don't think about it, because they obviously didn't.
rip
Rasalased
Profile Joined May 2019
89 Posts
May 20 2019 14:33 GMT
#36176
Well, they aren't wrong. If d&d had somehow forced a purpose or moral to the story to GRRMs crazy plotlines, it would also have been bad.
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-20 14:37:44
May 20 2019 14:37 GMT
#36177
GRRM's writing has pretty consistent morals/themes not just in asoiaf but across his prior work as well. You can think his writing or storytelling is bad but the themes are undeniable.
rip
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
May 20 2019 14:41 GMT
#36178
Also the show runners forgot the Iron Islands are an independent kingdom

From wiki:

After reaching Meereen, Yara and Theon forge an alliance with Daenerys and her advisor Tyrion Lannister. Yara offers to provide a hundred ships if Dany helps them to defeat Euron and recognizes the independence of the Iron Islands. Dany accepts their offer but demands that the Ironborn cease raiding and terrorizing the mainland. Yara reluctantly accepts Dany's terms

Logo
karazax
Profile Joined May 2010
United States3737 Posts
May 20 2019 14:42 GMT
#36179
On May 20 2019 22:25 solidbebe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2019 22:23 Rasalased wrote:
On May 20 2019 19:57 Bacillus wrote:
The thing I wonder and worry is what kind of conclusions people responsible for financially greenlighting these shows draw from the backlash of s8.

Apparently back when the Revenant was being filmed and it blew the budget and got delayed and all that, there was serious worry how it'll affect other upcoming film projects. Luckily it turned out great in the end and did well in the box office. Had it been a catastrophic failure, it would have likely caused the financers to play a lot safer and nobody would have got to do the ambitious stuff any time soon.

I'm not sure how that'll translate to a series that has had its success on previous years though, but I fear somehow it may lead to much more middle of the road productions in the near future.


I have no idea what the people in charge in Hollywood are thinking. I have heard people say that doing this SF and fantasy genre is really hurting Hollywood because it is so expensive. But that is their own fucking problem, because their business model is basically to one-up the last movie in terms of special effects and production value. That is the way they keep things going. These movies aren't competing with each other on plot or dialogue. And Star Trek and Game of Thrones have the same problem.


Take Star Trek Discovery. It took 8 million per episode to shoot. And STD looked absolutely beautiful. The sets and the attention to detail was insane. Also didn't hear about coffee cups of water bottles. But the story was absolutely terrible. Much much worse on so many levels that GoT. Why?

It is fucking cheap to hire some good writers. Put people in a room, have them talk about stuff. And cut it into an episode. Original Star Trek was produced on almost no budget. It was a cheap ass show. Season 1 GoT skipped battles because they didn't have the money for it. Yes Game of Thrones turned into a show were every battle had to be bigger and more epic than the last one, to keep the hype train going.

Marvel superhero movies are doing the same thing.


In my job I do a lot of writing. We write scientific articles and they have to be really good. We keep going over and over them to improve, but it is only 2% of our actual job. And then when we publish, often we think "No one is ever going to read this shit." and we are happy we get a couple of citations. And when we make a mistake, our mistake gets ripped to shreds.

Compare this with the script for the king voting scene in GoT. These people had 8 years to come up with it. They get paid 0.5-1 million per episode. Whatever they put down on people, millions are going to watch. There must be like a 10,000,000 factor of how much time the creators spend into thinking about their story. And how much effort their fans put in thinking about the story. I get that it is hard to please your entire audience. But this isn't about that.

Imagine they did Game of Thrones without any book material? The same concept and ambition, but Hollywood just comes up with it all on their own. Well, that is what might be happening now.

So why doesn't Hollywood produce extremely well-written tv series/movies that are cheap to produce? I fucking don't know. But I guess they did do that with shows like Friends and The Big Bang Theory.

This is something that also baffles me. Why were D&D even put in charge of the writing in the first place? With GoTs massive budget surely they couldve hired a couple of decent script writers to make a decent story. Is this just some hollywood politics kind of thing?


D&D were the ones who pitched the show to HBO, that is how they got the job. They got the approval from GRRM partially on their ability to guess R+L=J, which was a pretty regularly floated book theory on book forums.
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
May 20 2019 14:44 GMT
#36180
On May 20 2019 23:41 Logo wrote:
Also the show runners forgot the Iron Islands are an independent kingdom

From wiki:
Show nested quote +

After reaching Meereen, Yara and Theon forge an alliance with Daenerys and her advisor Tyrion Lannister. Yara offers to provide a hundred ships if Dany helps them to defeat Euron and recognizes the independence of the Iron Islands. Dany accepts their offer but demands that the Ironborn cease raiding and terrorizing the mainland. Yara reluctantly accepts Dany's terms


Im not sure they really cared about any of the politics anyway. The whole choosing Bran as king scene makes very little sense from the perspective of any of the participants except maybe sansa and arya.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
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