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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 21 2016 13:50 B.I.G. wrote:
Like someone else mentioned I genuinely felt Jon (as well as Tormund and Davos) could die at any given time. It is totally opposite for me.
Jon's plot armor is so thick that he can literally stand in a rain of arrows or rampaging horses! Not a shred of suspense for me sadly.
In a way this kind runs counter to what I thought was the very essence of GRRM 'message'. Oh well, never read the books, so maybe I was putting more into it, then what was there...
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On June 21 2016 10:02 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't see how that is a good explanation. While it might be true that she doesn't trust him fully, not telling him about the vale army only means that it's less likely to win the battle. A battle which is also pretty important for her you would imagine.
I hope they bring this up in the next episode/season
Yes and also Jon could've and (let's be honest) should have been dead already by the time Sansa and Littlefinger arrived.
Could've been so much easier if she told him about the Vale. But then again she did tell him not to do what Ramsey wants him to do and Jon failed.
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so what exactly happened to dorne, was it completely removed? (like that obyern wife lady killing the prince doran is that the ending for dorne?) I thought they would at least show something about her rallying troops to attack kings landing which is why she killed doran, but theres been no scenes of it at all like they dropped it.
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On June 21 2016 16:19 Shock710 wrote:
so what exactly happened to dorne, was it completely removed? (like that obyern wife lady killing the prince doran is that the ending for dorne?) I thought they would at least show something about her rallying troops to attack kings landing which is why she killed doran, but theres been no scenes of it at all like they dropped it.
It's on Gendry's boat. Hopefully never to be seen again.
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Zurich15365 Posts
I think they really did realize how shit the whole Dorn plot was and just aborted it by killing everyone important and having it now kind of in plot limbo. Maybe they'll revive Dorn by the time Dany arrives but until then I doubt we will see more Sand.
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So what's the situation in the North now? Is Sansa the lady or is Jon the lord?
And what does Littlefinger have to gain? He doesn't give favors for free. Of course, all three are now enemies of the kingdom for overthrowing the official Warden of the North. However, Littlefinger may already have foreseen that the crown has lost much of its power. The last time he was in King's Landing, the Faith had already gained power and controlled the streets. Littlefinger is banking on the Lannisters losing the power struggle, so he can afford to oppose them openly. But still, what does he gain from helping Sansa? An ally for a war to take the throne in the future?
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Zurich15365 Posts
North is clearly Sansa's. Jon is still a Snow. Apart from her original family she is the widow of the de jure Warden of the North. They will need to figure out a way to anull all of Sansa's marriages so that she can be a Stark again, but seeing the level of lawlessness right now they can probably simply do that. It'll be important for reuniting the North that there is a Stark in Winterfell.
Littlefinger still has control of the vale army, which after the battle is pretty much the only army left in the North. So even if he loses control over Sansa as a person he still has considerable influence simply by having the only fighting force in the area. That will make him in part control the North, the Vale, Harrenhall in title. He has plenty of options now. He could crush the Freys between the North and the Vale to secure the Riverlands which would make him a player that controls to an extend the entire North-East of Westeros.
But of course he can also turn his attention back to King's Landing, and wait for the Faith and the Lannisters to destroy each other.
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Jon Snow is still a Snow so the North should belong to Sansa unless Bran comes back
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Winterfell seems like the worst stronghold ever.
And how can Jon not hate Sansa now?
Something like that is unforgivable.
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This episode was beautifully filmed. I was scared when all the horses clashed together. Haven't seen anything like that. Production was a blast!
Then there was the bitter disappointment called Jon. First he plays smart, and tries to tilt/taunt the other bastard, only to end up on tilt to the most obvious trap. I get it that throughout history we have had poor shitty leaders on tilt, but why do we summon these idiots to a good TV show? It didn't feel good to me. So Jon only cares about himself and his family, he doesn't give a shit about his plan to make the best move with his few men, no responsibility as the leader people unite behind. The Stark victory didn't feel good.
Plenty of battles ahead, so it can only improve from here on out. /optimistic
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On June 21 2016 17:42 Garbels wrote:
Winterfell seems like the worst stronghold ever.
lol I always thought it looks like three buildings with a courtyard in between them. Isn't it supposed to be the stronghold of the north, and the biggest city? I guess budget restraints but still, that place is a dump in the show
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 21 2016 17:13 zatic wrote:
I think they really did realize how shit the whole Dorn plot was and just aborted it by killing everyone important and having it now kind of in plot limbo. Maybe they'll revive Dorn by the time Dany arrives but until then I doubt we will see more Sand.
Varys is headed to Dorne :3
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On June 21 2016 18:21 Warfie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2016 17:42 Garbels wrote:
Winterfell seems like the worst stronghold ever.
lol I always thought it looks like three buildings with a courtyard in between them. Isn't it supposed to be the stronghold of the north, and the biggest city? I guess budget restraints but still, that place is a dump in the show
The problem of having to show the set in the pilot :p
On June 21 2016 18:09 crappen wrote:
Then there was the bitter disappointment called Jon. First he plays smart, and tries to tilt/taunt the other bastard, only to end up on tilt to the most obvious trap. I get it that throughout history we have had poor shitty leaders on tilt, but why do we summon these idiots to a good TV show? It didn't feel good to me. So Jon only cares about himself and his family, he doesn't give a shit about his plan to make the best move with his few men, no responsibility as the leader people unite behind. The Stark victory didn't feel good.
It didn't feel clean or herioc, but I think it did feel very true to Jon's character. He's not some mary sue perfect military machine, he's made a ton of very impulsive decisions over the last 5 seasons, and while he's a very good fighting and being commander at the wall, he has zero experience in southern warfare or politics or anything like that.
Pretty much everyone at/north of the wall he's interacted with have been super stand-up and honorable. The wildlings have all been super standup guys and even the guys who stabbed him were doing it because they truly thought it was what they had to do to uphold their oaths and protect the wall. Sansa's rant was a bit awkward and useless, but she did have a point in that he's never dealt with anyone like Ramsay before.
This could all have been so much easier if Sansa had just told them about littlefinger having an army BEFORE they all got themselves killed >.>
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On June 21 2016 18:25 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2016 17:13 zatic wrote:
I think they really did realize how shit the whole Dorn plot was and just aborted it by killing everyone important and having it now kind of in plot limbo. Maybe they'll revive Dorn by the time Dany arrives but until then I doubt we will see more Sand. Varys is headed to Dorne :3
why the hell is he going there? i heard that the history of dorne was that they rebelled against the dragons and somehow won??? (not clear on how) they just have foot soliders with spears, the unsullied seem to cover that pretty well.
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On June 21 2016 18:09 crappen wrote:
This episode was beautifully filmed. I was scared when all the horses clashed together. Haven't seen anything like that. Production was a blast!
Then there was the bitter disappointment called Jon. First he plays smart, and tries to tilt/taunt the other bastard, only to end up on tilt to the most obvious trap. I get it that throughout history we have had poor shitty leaders on tilt, but why do we summon these idiots to a good TV show? It didn't feel good to me. So Jon only cares about himself and his family, he doesn't give a shit about his plan to make the best move with his few men, no responsibility as the leader people unite behind. The Stark victory didn't feel good.
Plenty of battles ahead, so it can only improve from here on out. /optimistic
That's character development. It would be very suspect if Jon waded through all that shit only to come out white as snow. Jon knows shit.
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Finland963 Posts
On June 21 2016 18:31 killerdog wrote:
This could all have been so much easier if Sansa had just told them about littlefinger having an army BEFORE they all got themselves killed >.>
But did Sansa know that the knights were coming?
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On June 21 2016 18:46 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2016 18:25 Plexa wrote:On June 21 2016 17:13 zatic wrote:
I think they really did realize how shit the whole Dorn plot was and just aborted it by killing everyone important and having it now kind of in plot limbo. Maybe they'll revive Dorn by the time Dany arrives but until then I doubt we will see more Sand. Varys is headed to Dorne :3 why the hell is he going there? i heard that the history of dorne was that they rebelled against the dragons and somehow won??? (not clear on how) they just have foot soliders with spears, the unsullied seem to cover that pretty well.
Larger army = better + it connects the story.
In reality though, cutting Dorne from the story would probably be a better and simpler story though in that regard introducing Oberyn would be somewhat pointless.
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France7248 Posts
On June 21 2016 19:56 hexhaven wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2016 18:31 killerdog wrote:
This could all have been so much easier if Sansa had just told them about littlefinger having an army BEFORE they all got themselves killed >.> But did Sansa know that the knights were coming?
how do you think she found them? she wasn't at the battle and somehow arrives with Littlefinger
at the very least, she should have said Jon that it was a possibility. When Sansa said to Jon that he needed more men, and he replied that there was none, that was exactly where she could have said "the Vale might be able to help, I'll tell you how"
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Zurich15365 Posts
Can we talk about how Davos is probably going to do another 180 and go from being best buddies with Melisandre back to hating her guts and wanting to kill her?
His actions at the Wall in the beginning of the season is still the most out of character move in the entire series.
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Rickon was a captive
Well my issue is that Rickon is gonna die anyway. Ramsay could just kill him at any point in time. Sansa even says something similar to Jon prior to the battle.
This is why I feel that the writing should have been very different up to that point in time and Jon should have had a larger army than the Boltons so the incentivize given the probability of winning made sense.
I think this was part of the reason why I simply couldn't enjoy the episode, because I kept thinking throughout whole the episode how dumb it was and how it was like I was watching a 90s action movie where the actors fight for the sake of fighting.
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EPT
