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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 138

Forum Index > Media & Entertainment
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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed.
Astans
Profile Joined October 2010
205 Posts
May 15 2011 21:01 GMT
#2741
On May 16 2011 05:56 Lior wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 05:52 Astans wrote:
On May 16 2011 04:50 WiljushkA wrote:
On May 16 2011 03:24 Astans wrote:
the little boy who likes to climb on buildings was taken from a Zelazny story


im sure, cause obviously a writer would never think of a boy who likes to climb on his own.



its an obsession with heights, a compulsive behavior. plus Martin mentioned that Zelazny was one of his inspirations. i am pretty sure he read that book.

Martin borrowed a lot of ideas and molded them into his own book, he has admitted that too


So did Tolkien.Your point?


there was a discussion somewhere in this thread about what influenced Martin and about his own ideas and creativity. i just added what i know. some people think that all this is Martin's own making and its not. it doesn't take anyway from the story if these ideas are new to you but we shouldn't credit Martin with boundless creativity either. to the people who know the stories that he borrowed from it may seem a bit blatant.
Skilledblob
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3392 Posts
May 15 2011 21:05 GMT
#2742
On May 16 2011 06:01 Astans wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 05:56 Lior wrote:
On May 16 2011 05:52 Astans wrote:
On May 16 2011 04:50 WiljushkA wrote:
On May 16 2011 03:24 Astans wrote:
the little boy who likes to climb on buildings was taken from a Zelazny story


im sure, cause obviously a writer would never think of a boy who likes to climb on his own.



its an obsession with heights, a compulsive behavior. plus Martin mentioned that Zelazny was one of his inspirations. i am pretty sure he read that book.

Martin borrowed a lot of ideas and molded them into his own book, he has admitted that too


So did Tolkien.Your point?


there was a discussion somewhere in this thread about what influenced Martin and about his own ideas and creativity. i just added what i know. some people think that all this is Martin's own making and its not. it doesn't take anyway from the story if these ideas are new to you but we shouldn't credit Martin with boundless creativity either. to the people who know the stories that he borrowed from it may seem a bit blatant.


and they borrowed ideas from other authors. So what? Really i dont see your point
Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
May 15 2011 21:09 GMT
#2743
On May 16 2011 05:54 zemiron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 05:26 Mente wrote:
On May 16 2011 03:01 t3tsubo wrote:
On May 15 2011 22:33 Doppelganger wrote:
On May 15 2011 21:56 zalz wrote:
On May 15 2011 21:47 escobari wrote:
I've trying to figure out peoples powerlevels for awhile now and only thing I can figure is that arhur daynes aka sword of the mornings was over 9000. Next I would put barristan and jaime, others are kind of impossible to place. There are also some ridicilous imbalances + Show Spoiler +
like so mountain savages, sellsword and a woman being more powerfull than elite knights like the kingsguard


I think it's safe to say that given the accounts of all the characters, Arthur Dayne was indeed the most skilled knight during his lifetime. A pretty good piece of the first book:


It's a dream/memory that Ned has in the first book.

+ Show Spoiler +
He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.

In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory’s father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon’s squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man’s memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.

They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across
a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.
“Lord Eddard,” Lyanna called again.
“I promise,” he whispered. “Lya, I promise.’



I so hope we get to see that.

+ Show Spoiler +
this dream hints at who the parents of Jon Snow are


Pretty sure it's already been mentioned in the show and in the books who jon's parents are.



+ Show Spoiler +
Different people in the books have ideas who Jon's mother is, but they all have conflicting stories. Ned's dreams suggest other options for the identity of Jon's mother. As of know, there has been no definitive answer in the series, but several people have their theories.


+ Show Spoiler +
Didn't jon's milk brother say his mother was Wylla? Didn't Ned tell Robert in episode 2 that the woman he went to bed with was Wylla as well? I seem to recall the first sentence in book 3~
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
Humppis
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland52 Posts
May 15 2011 21:13 GMT
#2744
On May 16 2011 05:52 Astans wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 04:50 WiljushkA wrote:
On May 16 2011 03:24 Astans wrote:
the little boy who likes to climb on buildings was taken from a Zelazny story


im sure, cause obviously a writer would never think of a boy who likes to climb on his own.



its an obsession with heights, a compulsive behavior. plus Martin mentioned that Zelazny was one of his inspirations. i am pretty sure he read that book.

Martin borrowed a lot of ideas and molded them into his own book, he has admitted that too


Unless you live under a rock( literally ), its very hard to not pick inspirations from your surroundings. Every artist - wether its music, writing or art - get inspiration from somewhere. Most inspirations people get they wont even realize they did. Being able to pinpoint their inspirations and giving credit to the people they were inspired by is something to be credited, not frowned upon.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 21:18:46
May 15 2011 21:18 GMT
#2745
-delete, misread-
Eclipse.fX
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Canada125 Posts
May 15 2011 21:22 GMT
#2746
On May 16 2011 06:09 Mente wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 05:54 zemiron wrote:
On May 16 2011 05:26 Mente wrote:
On May 16 2011 03:01 t3tsubo wrote:
On May 15 2011 22:33 Doppelganger wrote:
On May 15 2011 21:56 zalz wrote:
On May 15 2011 21:47 escobari wrote:
I've trying to figure out peoples powerlevels for awhile now and only thing I can figure is that arhur daynes aka sword of the mornings was over 9000. Next I would put barristan and jaime, others are kind of impossible to place. There are also some ridicilous imbalances + Show Spoiler +
like so mountain savages, sellsword and a woman being more powerfull than elite knights like the kingsguard


I think it's safe to say that given the accounts of all the characters, Arthur Dayne was indeed the most skilled knight during his lifetime. A pretty good piece of the first book:


It's a dream/memory that Ned has in the first book.

+ Show Spoiler +
He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.

In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory’s father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon’s squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man’s memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.

They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across
a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.
“Lord Eddard,” Lyanna called again.
“I promise,” he whispered. “Lya, I promise.’



I so hope we get to see that.

+ Show Spoiler +
this dream hints at who the parents of Jon Snow are


Pretty sure it's already been mentioned in the show and in the books who jon's parents are.



+ Show Spoiler +
Different people in the books have ideas who Jon's mother is, but they all have conflicting stories. Ned's dreams suggest other options for the identity of Jon's mother. As of know, there has been no definitive answer in the series, but several people have their theories.


+ Show Spoiler +
Didn't jon's milk brother say his mother was Wylla? Didn't Ned tell Robert in episode 2 that the woman he went to bed with was Wylla as well? I seem to recall the first sentence in book 3~


Lots of details on who Jon Snow's parents might be at: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/2291/ TL:DR version of it in the spoiler below.

+ Show Spoiler +
The theory with the most evidence behind it that makes the most sense for the story is: Jon's parents are Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.
24949
Astans
Profile Joined October 2010
205 Posts
May 15 2011 21:25 GMT
#2747
On May 16 2011 06:13 Humppis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 05:52 Astans wrote:
On May 16 2011 04:50 WiljushkA wrote:
On May 16 2011 03:24 Astans wrote:
the little boy who likes to climb on buildings was taken from a Zelazny story


im sure, cause obviously a writer would never think of a boy who likes to climb on his own.



its an obsession with heights, a compulsive behavior. plus Martin mentioned that Zelazny was one of his inspirations. i am pretty sure he read that book.

Martin borrowed a lot of ideas and molded them into his own book, he has admitted that too


Unless you live under a rock( literally ), its very hard to not pick inspirations from your surroundings. Every artist - wether its music, writing or art - get inspiration from somewhere. Most inspirations people get they wont even realize they did. Being able to pinpoint their inspirations and giving credit to the people they were inspired by is something to be credited, not frowned upon.


it depends on how much you borrow. but anyway, i didn't criticize Martin much, i just said that we shouldn't credit him with inventing many of these ideas.
If you play someone else's song we can applaud you for doing it well but we can't give you credit for writing it.
Martin wrote a good book, i just feel that his borrowing of ideas was a bit blatant for those few people who know where those ideas came from.
razicator
Profile Joined May 2011
2 Posts
May 15 2011 22:54 GMT
#2748
I lost HBO moving from college to back home, does anybody stream this awesome show? Perhaps on JTV?
Pekkz
Profile Joined June 2009
Norway1505 Posts
May 15 2011 23:06 GMT
#2749
On May 16 2011 07:54 razicator wrote:
I lost HBO moving from college to back home, does anybody stream this awesome show? Perhaps on JTV?


Dunno if thats legal to post here, but would sure like a PM if any1 is streaming:p
GwSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1997 Posts
May 15 2011 23:12 GMT
#2750
On May 16 2011 07:54 razicator wrote:
I lost HBO moving from college to back home, does anybody stream this awesome show? Perhaps on JTV?


Popular torrent sites usually have it upon within an hour of the show ending, if that helps.
Bonham
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada655 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 23:18:44
May 15 2011 23:18 GMT
#2751
On May 16 2011 06:22 Eclipse.fX wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +
The theory with the most evidence behind it that makes the most sense for the story is: Jon's parents are Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.



This is totally correct. I will eat my own shoes if Jon's parents turns out to be anyone else.
Dystisis
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway713 Posts
May 15 2011 23:39 GMT
#2752
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't understand why people assume Lyanna Stark is the mother of Jon, and that Eddard is not the father. Reading through the theories for why this is assumed, no good reason is given. As for what is in the books, Eddard is always described as the father, and he is not the sort of character that lies at every chance.

However, many people seem to be persuaded otherwise. I suppose I'm missing something.
Xivsa
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1009 Posts
May 15 2011 23:46 GMT
#2753
On May 16 2011 08:39 Dystisis wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't understand why people assume Lyanna Stark is the mother of Jon, and that Eddard is not the father. Reading through the theories for why this is assumed, no good reason is given. As for what is in the books, Eddard is always described as the father, and he is not the sort of character that lies at every chance.

However, many people seem to be persuaded otherwise. I suppose I'm missing something.


+ Show Spoiler +
You're mostly missing the promise Lyana drew from Eddard. What else would it be besides raise this child as though it were your own? And while Eddard doesn't always lie, he's also not one to sleep around and sire bastards. Jon is almost as old as Robb as he left Catelyn right after Robb was conceived and then comes back with another son, in addition to his own. Of the two, I'd say Eddard knocking up some 'Wylla' chick to be less likely.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - Bilbo
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 23:50:34
May 15 2011 23:48 GMT
#2754
On May 16 2011 06:25 Astans wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 06:13 Humppis wrote:
On May 16 2011 05:52 Astans wrote:
On May 16 2011 04:50 WiljushkA wrote:
On May 16 2011 03:24 Astans wrote:
the little boy who likes to climb on buildings was taken from a Zelazny story


im sure, cause obviously a writer would never think of a boy who likes to climb on his own.



its an obsession with heights, a compulsive behavior. plus Martin mentioned that Zelazny was one of his inspirations. i am pretty sure he read that book.

Martin borrowed a lot of ideas and molded them into his own book, he has admitted that too


Unless you live under a rock( literally ), its very hard to not pick inspirations from your surroundings. Every artist - wether its music, writing or art - get inspiration from somewhere. Most inspirations people get they wont even realize they did. Being able to pinpoint their inspirations and giving credit to the people they were inspired by is something to be credited, not frowned upon.


it depends on how much you borrow. but anyway, i didn't criticize Martin much, i just said that we shouldn't credit him with inventing many of these ideas.
If you play someone else's song we can applaud you for doing it well but we can't give you credit for writing it.
Martin wrote a good book, i just feel that his borrowing of ideas was a bit blatant for those few people who know where those ideas came from.


“Immature poets imitate, mature poets steal” - T.S. Eliot

The same goes for writing, music, painting, or any art really. No great artist is 100% original.

Martin did write his own book, and he did steal ideas, as do all good writers.


Oh and Bonham, you need to learn how to read.
Maginor
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway505 Posts
May 15 2011 23:49 GMT
#2755
Did nobody read the notice about tagging spoilers appropriately?
Xivsa
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1009 Posts
May 15 2011 23:51 GMT
#2756
On May 16 2011 08:49 Maginor wrote:
Did nobody read the notice about tagging spoilers appropriately?


+ Show Spoiler +
Yep, I did read it. The ambiguity about Jon's parentage is established in the first book.
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - Bilbo
Teejing
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany1360 Posts
May 15 2011 23:58 GMT
#2757
im not even reading anything from this thread, only the op, becaseu i am sure there would be spoilers. We should have needed a 2nd thread for the books with full of spoilers/discussion while this thread should have remained without knowledge beyond the seen series episodes.
Vykenos
Profile Joined September 2009
United States56 Posts
May 16 2011 00:07 GMT
#2758
On May 16 2011 08:39 Dystisis wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't understand why people assume Lyanna Stark is the mother of Jon, and that Eddard is not the father. Reading through the theories for why this is assumed, no good reason is given. As for what is in the books, Eddard is always described as the father, and he is not the sort of character that lies at every chance.

However, many people seem to be persuaded otherwise. I suppose I'm missing something.


In reply to questions about Jon's parents:

+ Show Spoiler +
Everything said to date in the books has been from the words of people who do not know for sure. The book itself has not narrated anything else other then labeling Jon what he thinks he is. the only person who has been identified that knows for sure is Ned.
The Mothership has been altered to be sleeker and more visually appealing, and has been renamed to the Cougarship. The Cougarship will gravitate toward enemy units that have been in play for 18-21 minutes and bring them back to nearest friendly base.
Turenne
Profile Joined January 2011
331 Posts
May 16 2011 00:16 GMT
#2759
When does the episode start?
sidesprang
Profile Joined January 2009
Norway1033 Posts
May 16 2011 00:29 GMT
#2760
On May 16 2011 09:16 Turenne wrote:
When does the episode start?


9 pm estern time i think. aka in 30 mins.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.
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