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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything.
Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone.
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On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone.
IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain 
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On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain
Not if you read a book multiple times.
I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time.
From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world...
Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads.
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Hopefully some people got to see the GoT exhibit that's been going around the world. Pretty neat to see some of the props from the show 
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On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads.
Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details).
Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool.
Wouldn't it be cool?
+ Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar
+ Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke
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On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke
The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion.
The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne.
Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them.
The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion.
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On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion.
Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow.
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On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads.
My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either.
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Do you mean it was badly written by GRRM or because of the translation from English to French?
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On September 06 2014 21:19 Reaps wrote:
Do you mean it was badly written by GRRM or because of the translation from English to French?
Can't say for French, but russian translation is decent, and yea, it's a bit hard to read in english if u're not native speaker, due to some uncommon vocabulary, although it worths to struggle.
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On September 06 2014 21:22 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 21:19 Reaps wrote:
Do you mean it was badly written by GRRM or because of the translation from English to French? Can't say for French, but russian translation is decent, and yea, it's a bit hard to read in english if u're not native speaker, due to some uncommon vocabulary, although it worths to struggle.
English is my native language and I still struggle to understand some of the words in the book :D so yea I can understand.
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On September 06 2014 21:11 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either.
I think translating fantasy in French is awkward.
French doesn't adapt well to names such as "Riverrun", "Greyjoy" or "Lightbringer". English is a much simpler language when it comes to creating cool-sounding names. Translating those literally in French would make them sound ridiculous.
I haven't read the books in French, but I do know the translator chose to keep many names in English, while translating others. On an immersion standpoint, I think it makes little sense to have the Lannisters, the Starks and the Baratheons battling it out in "Port-Réal", which is the translation of King's Landing.
French people know these names aren't French. The story doesn't speak about the merovingian dynasty or Napoleon, they are clearly foreign names. Why translate only half of them?
I personally believe actual translation trumps adaptation here. As a translator, I would handle it like a history book. Of course, certain things still have to be adaptated (idioms, stuff like that), but still.
On September 06 2014 21:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion. Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow.
No doubt. Many, many interesting stories untold in the show as of yet. If you are interested though, I recommend simply reading the books. GRRM created an awesome universe, it's well worth the time.
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On September 06 2014 21:29 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 21:11 nojok wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either. I think translating fantasy in French is awkward. French doesn't adapt well to names such as "Riverrun", "Greyjoy" or "Lightbringer". English is a much simpler language when it comes to creating cool-sounding names. Translating those literally in French would make them sound ridiculous. I haven't read the books in French, but I do know the translator chose to keep many names in English, while translating others. On an immersion standpoint, I think it makes little sense to have the Lannisters, the Starks and the Baratheons battling it out in "Port-Réal", which is the translation of King's Landing. French people know these names aren't French. The story doesn't speak about the merovingian dynasty or Napoleon, they are clearly foreign names. Why translate only half of them? I personally believe actual translation trumps adaptation here. As a translator, I would handle it like a history book. Of course, certain things still have to be adaptated (idioms, stuff like that), but still. Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 21:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion. Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow. No doubt. Many, many interesting stories untold in the show as of yet. If you are interested though, I recommend simply reading the books. GRRM created an awesome universe, it's well worth the time.
Am in the end of book 2, what book should I stop not to spoil anything before the next season? WANNA be crashed few more times, like after the red wedding and the mountain vs the viper 
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On September 06 2014 21:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 21:29 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 21:11 nojok wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either. I think translating fantasy in French is awkward. French doesn't adapt well to names such as "Riverrun", "Greyjoy" or "Lightbringer". English is a much simpler language when it comes to creating cool-sounding names. Translating those literally in French would make them sound ridiculous. I haven't read the books in French, but I do know the translator chose to keep many names in English, while translating others. On an immersion standpoint, I think it makes little sense to have the Lannisters, the Starks and the Baratheons battling it out in "Port-Réal", which is the translation of King's Landing. French people know these names aren't French. The story doesn't speak about the merovingian dynasty or Napoleon, they are clearly foreign names. Why translate only half of them? I personally believe actual translation trumps adaptation here. As a translator, I would handle it like a history book. Of course, certain things still have to be adaptated (idioms, stuff like that), but still. On September 06 2014 21:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion. Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow. No doubt. Many, many interesting stories untold in the show as of yet. If you are interested though, I recommend simply reading the books. GRRM created an awesome universe, it's well worth the time. Am in the end of book 2, what book should I stop not to spoil anything before the next season? WANNA be crashed few more times, like after the red wedding and the mountain vs the viper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones
Season 4 finished book nr 3, A Storm of Swords, although it includes elements from later books.
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On September 06 2014 23:11 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 21:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 21:29 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 21:11 nojok wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either. I think translating fantasy in French is awkward. French doesn't adapt well to names such as "Riverrun", "Greyjoy" or "Lightbringer". English is a much simpler language when it comes to creating cool-sounding names. Translating those literally in French would make them sound ridiculous. I haven't read the books in French, but I do know the translator chose to keep many names in English, while translating others. On an immersion standpoint, I think it makes little sense to have the Lannisters, the Starks and the Baratheons battling it out in "Port-Réal", which is the translation of King's Landing. French people know these names aren't French. The story doesn't speak about the merovingian dynasty or Napoleon, they are clearly foreign names. Why translate only half of them? I personally believe actual translation trumps adaptation here. As a translator, I would handle it like a history book. Of course, certain things still have to be adaptated (idioms, stuff like that), but still. On September 06 2014 21:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:
[quote]
Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion. Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow. No doubt. Many, many interesting stories untold in the show as of yet. If you are interested though, I recommend simply reading the books. GRRM created an awesome universe, it's well worth the time. Am in the end of book 2, what book should I stop not to spoil anything before the next season? WANNA be crashed few more times, like after the red wedding and the mountain vs the viper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_ThronesSeason 4 finished book nr 3, A Storm of Swords, although it includes elements from later books.
I've promised myself to never visit GoT wiki page, cause am sure I'll spoil something huge, but thanks
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Also, in the third book you might not want to read the epilogue if you do not want to spoil the TV Show.
Some people claim that the epilogue will not happen in the show, others say that it is in the script for the next season. So I'l leave it up to you to decide if you should read it or not.
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On September 06 2014 23:48 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 23:11 Excludos wrote:On September 06 2014 21:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 21:29 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 21:11 nojok wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:On September 04 2014 21:54 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Since Bran's story branch was the most boring, I think it's even fine.
P.S. By the way, started to read a books, almost at the end of book two, and it's much more easily overall to read them after watching the show, basicly due to that u don't have to imagine lands, castles and characters mostly u know exactly how all those things suppose to looks like. Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either. I think translating fantasy in French is awkward. French doesn't adapt well to names such as "Riverrun", "Greyjoy" or "Lightbringer". English is a much simpler language when it comes to creating cool-sounding names. Translating those literally in French would make them sound ridiculous. I haven't read the books in French, but I do know the translator chose to keep many names in English, while translating others. On an immersion standpoint, I think it makes little sense to have the Lannisters, the Starks and the Baratheons battling it out in "Port-Réal", which is the translation of King's Landing. French people know these names aren't French. The story doesn't speak about the merovingian dynasty or Napoleon, they are clearly foreign names. Why translate only half of them? I personally believe actual translation trumps adaptation here. As a translator, I would handle it like a history book. Of course, certain things still have to be adaptated (idioms, stuff like that), but still. On September 06 2014 21:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
[quote]
Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion. Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow. No doubt. Many, many interesting stories untold in the show as of yet. If you are interested though, I recommend simply reading the books. GRRM created an awesome universe, it's well worth the time. Am in the end of book 2, what book should I stop not to spoil anything before the next season? WANNA be crashed few more times, like after the red wedding and the mountain vs the viper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_ThronesSeason 4 finished book nr 3, A Storm of Swords, although it includes elements from later books. I've promised myself to never visit GoT wiki page, cause am sure I'll spoil something huge, but thanks
The trick is to have friends like mine who's so good at spoiling that they've told me about parts of the book that hasn't even been released yet..
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On September 07 2014 20:21 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 23:48 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 23:11 Excludos wrote:On September 06 2014 21:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 21:29 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 21:11 nojok wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 04 2014 23:28 inimenesc wrote:
[quote]
Thats the reason i cant read the books, i like to imagine my own world when reading books. But reading GoT became so dull because i knew everything. Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either. I think translating fantasy in French is awkward. French doesn't adapt well to names such as "Riverrun", "Greyjoy" or "Lightbringer". English is a much simpler language when it comes to creating cool-sounding names. Translating those literally in French would make them sound ridiculous. I haven't read the books in French, but I do know the translator chose to keep many names in English, while translating others. On an immersion standpoint, I think it makes little sense to have the Lannisters, the Starks and the Baratheons battling it out in "Port-Réal", which is the translation of King's Landing. French people know these names aren't French. The story doesn't speak about the merovingian dynasty or Napoleon, they are clearly foreign names. Why translate only half of them? I personally believe actual translation trumps adaptation here. As a translator, I would handle it like a history book. Of course, certain things still have to be adaptated (idioms, stuff like that), but still. On September 06 2014 21:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:[quote] IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion. Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow. No doubt. Many, many interesting stories untold in the show as of yet. If you are interested though, I recommend simply reading the books. GRRM created an awesome universe, it's well worth the time. Am in the end of book 2, what book should I stop not to spoil anything before the next season? WANNA be crashed few more times, like after the red wedding and the mountain vs the viper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_ThronesSeason 4 finished book nr 3, A Storm of Swords, although it includes elements from later books. I've promised myself to never visit GoT wiki page, cause am sure I'll spoil something huge, but thanks The trick is to have friends like mine who's so good at spoiling that they've told me about parts of the book that hasn't even been released yet..
I think everybody got such friends, but mine, at least, didn't spoiled that much. Spoilers are everywhere, especially when u're rewatching some small episode at YT, u must be aware not to read a comments there.
I've got an idea, since we're in between of seasons, we should share some pics from filming, arts and some interesting info. I'll start:
![[image loading]](http://cs540103.vk.me/c7007/v7007757/179b2/xUn9Sdl8Iyc.jpg)
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On September 07 2014 20:41 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 20:21 Excludos wrote:On September 06 2014 23:48 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 23:11 Excludos wrote:On September 06 2014 21:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 21:29 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 21:11 nojok wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:On September 05 2014 19:58 Salteador Neo wrote:On September 05 2014 18:57 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
[quote]
Well, maybe, but GoT universe has so many characters, that sometimes I can't figure out how does he looks like, and what kind of look those character was in our show. Some names are confusing, like Syrio/Illyrio, Osha/Asha, and if we're taking in mind first two books, there are so many lords and knights in every castle, that weren't described in the show, so u still got a surface to work with ur imagination. And still it would be pretty hard to remember everyone. IMO it's literally impossible to remember everyone in this saga unless you got a very special brain Not if you read a book multiple times. I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time. From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world... Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. My GF started reading the books and I gave it a shot. I gave up after reading a hundred pages because how badly it was written. I admit I often don't like translations from English to French in novels and I was way too poor vocabulary wise to read it in English (I also tried) as it's not some common vocabulary. My fantasy/sci-fi period is also some years behind me and I'm not in this kind of books anymore. The fact I already had engraved images for this story did not help either. I think translating fantasy in French is awkward. French doesn't adapt well to names such as "Riverrun", "Greyjoy" or "Lightbringer". English is a much simpler language when it comes to creating cool-sounding names. Translating those literally in French would make them sound ridiculous. I haven't read the books in French, but I do know the translator chose to keep many names in English, while translating others. On an immersion standpoint, I think it makes little sense to have the Lannisters, the Starks and the Baratheons battling it out in "Port-Réal", which is the translation of King's Landing. French people know these names aren't French. The story doesn't speak about the merovingian dynasty or Napoleon, they are clearly foreign names. Why translate only half of them? I personally believe actual translation trumps adaptation here. As a translator, I would handle it like a history book. Of course, certain things still have to be adaptated (idioms, stuff like that), but still. On September 06 2014 21:07 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 20:40 Spaylz wrote:On September 06 2014 20:12 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On September 06 2014 03:58 Mataza wrote:
[quote]
Not if you read a book multiple times.
I didn't read any of the asoiaf/got books, but I usually read books I like at least a second time.
From all I know GoT is so wonderfully executed as a story, with so much background information on the world...
Just saying, if anything, I am sure this series deserves rereads. Btw, I would like to see what happened while Robert/Ned sieging Pyke, with Stannis being under the siege of Storms End, there were a lot of stories how Ned Stark managed to survive in a fight vs 3 of Tagraryens king guardians (Stark wasn't alone he had around 8-9 ppl with him, and there were so many interesting details). Maybe GoT bosses will decide to film a prequel after next season and before next book will be ready or something like that, gonna be cool. Wouldn't it be cool? + Show Spoiler + Robert vs Rhaegar + Show Spoiler + Battle of the Pyke The siege of Pyke did not happen during Robert's Rebellion. The timeline is: Robert, Ned Stark and Jon Arryn rise up against King Aerys II, they emerge triumphant and Robert takes the Iron Throne. Some years later, Pyke goes out in a rebellion against Robert, and he smashes them. The siege of Storm's End with Stannis happened during Robert's Rebellion, not the Greyjoy Rebellion. Probably i missed the correct timeline, but still, I think there is a couple of pretty interesting stories may be drawn on TVshow. No doubt. Many, many interesting stories untold in the show as of yet. If you are interested though, I recommend simply reading the books. GRRM created an awesome universe, it's well worth the time. Am in the end of book 2, what book should I stop not to spoil anything before the next season? WANNA be crashed few more times, like after the red wedding and the mountain vs the viper http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_ThronesSeason 4 finished book nr 3, A Storm of Swords, although it includes elements from later books. I've promised myself to never visit GoT wiki page, cause am sure I'll spoil something huge, but thanks The trick is to have friends like mine who's so good at spoiling that they've told me about parts of the book that hasn't even been released yet.. I think everybody got such friends, but mine, at least, didn't spoiled that much. Spoilers are everywhere, especially when u're rewatching some small episode at YT, u must be aware not to read a comments there. I've got an idea, since we're in between of seasons, we should share some pics from filming, arts and some interesting info. I'll start:
That's a nice one. Does anybody really like Sansa+Sandor tho?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://38.media.tumblr.com/017a9a451ae5ae138dc5c17cda6d361c/tumblr_mj9ofuZuQ41qgp4j2o1_1280.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bPfk7HT.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/418/wHQmj98y5Mc.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/420/zdSfcR-Fr6I.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/428/I5R_349AkmM.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/430/sYAwhPs9ZOo.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/438/2chb3w_Pu2s.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/440/QrDNb4huE4g.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/448/4ZwzCM4sglU.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/450/0vzKmuYpYuA.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/458/kOQrj97LAb0.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pp.vk.me/c622031/v622031473/460/XvjdB1hsyz0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cs540103.vk.me/c7007/v7007413/124ec/zDHUcGyGaNg.jpg)
