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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 03 2011 01:41 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 01:30 Rflcrx wrote:On May 02 2011 23:42 Quotidian wrote:
I'm starting to fear that they're meddling with the story too much - like the scene with Joffrey and Cersei was completely unnecessary. These two characters don't need to be humanized or be made more "relatable" than they are in the books. As somebody who hasn't read the books I must say doing that was perfect. In the first two episodes they seemed to be just evil for the sake of being evil and it felt really really bad. Giving them a bit of a human touch stopped them from being grey and stupid. As someone who hasn't read the books, you might think it is perfect, but it really isn't. Now it seems like they're very concerned about playing up to what tv audiences expect.That scene just felt way too "written for television" and is out of character for the story as a whole. Every character in the book is complex, as are their motivations, but in the tv series, it seems they're just going too far with it. At least in the case of the obvious villains of the show. Joffrey is much more interesting as the messed up little-napoleon character he is in the books rather than this "innocent" that is just being led by adults without understanding his actions. We'll see though, there's hope for him yet. Cersei is, simply put, much more interesting in the books. The whole thing of creating this black haired baby the she lost isn't in the books, and for good reason. + Show Spoiler +The Cersei of the books would NEVER have a baby by Robert. Their marriage was entirely a political maneuver, there was never any love there - unlike in the show, where they're hinting at a story of lost love. Lena Headey has even stated that she thinks Cersei loved Robert at one point, which just shows she doesn't understand her character - or at least not the character of the books
That scene was not out of character at all, Cersei and Joff are not black and white characters of straight evil.
+ Show Spoiler +There are actual passages in the book where Cersei states she loved Robert, so....
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As I ve read all books in German and English i think this was the worst episode. They messed up the jon tyrion scene as mentioned. They simply made his change and the friendlyness of "his brothers" way too quick.. not good.
Yet the worst thing was the talking between Cersei and Joffrey. WTF ?! Cersei is a cunt and Joffrey is an evil arrogant prick who likes to dominate. THis they are discribed and there is no reason to change it.
Jaime even though shown selfconfident should be more arrogant as well.
+ Show Spoiler +Jaime pwns shit =P, the laste scene with jaime in the lastes released book... fcking awesome.
I love daenerys and arya, so well played =P
daenerys so sexy... as she should be :D
I also like the bear knight, He's better made then in my immagination ^^
then again skypio is strange, he should be like really really cool instead of a strange black mystican...
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On May 03 2011 01:59 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 01:56 -Archangel- wrote:On May 03 2011 01:41 Quotidian wrote:Cersei is, simply put, much more interesting in the books. The whole thing of creating this black haired baby the she lost isn't in the books, and for good reason. + Show Spoiler +The Cersei of the books would NEVER have a baby by Robert. Their marriage was entirely a political maneuver, there was never any love there - unlike in the show, where they're hinting at a story of lost love. Lena Headey has even stated that she thinks Cersei loved Robert at one point, which just shows she doesn't understand her character - or at least not the character of the books I do not agree with you. + Show Spoiler +Cersei states (in book 4 I think) that she did at one point consider her marriage a real one until she learned that Robert still loved Lyanna and didn't care for her. At that point she became the Bitch Queen of Westeros. Yeah I remember something very similar in the books. Many characters have changed dramatically over the course of the books, I think a lot of people are letting their images of how characters act in book 4 dictate how they feel about the portrayal of the characters in season 1, which is just wrong. I agree that Headey isn't a great Cersei, but that's mostly because she's not a very good actress in general
Not entirely sure what you mean, but I kind of think about it the other way around. I want characters to have the arcs they have in the books, and have the arcs functioning and developing like they did in the books, from book 1 to book 4.
In the tv series, it seems like they're compressing this development too much + Show Spoiler [big spoilers] + like already painting Jamie as sympathetic, although it really took the loss of his hand for him to truely re-evaluate things, or like setting Mormont up as an informant already in episode 3, when it took a few books to get to this point
It's too early to say that this will be a big problem, of course. I'm really enjoying the show so far, it just irks and worries me a bit - but it helpt to know that Martin is also writing for the show, so they'll probably not go too far with things either.
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+ Show Spoiler +It was actually in the first book that Mormont was set up as an informant. But it didn't play a role until the later books. I reread the first book recently and it was stated pretty clearly that had someone there watching Dany.
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+ Show Spoiler +
Mormont is revealed to be the spy much earlier in the books. Ned and Robert talk about it in their conversation on the Kingsroad. Also, Jamie isn't really set up to be sympathetic. He threw a child out the window and says that he would kill everybody but himself and Cercei. In a few episodes on, he will also kill assault Ned in the streets and kill his men.
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im a little confused about the books.. it says that the 5th book is coming out but i think to remember that there were something like 8 books i read. Were the german versions split into more books?
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There were originally going to be three books. But like many fantasy series, it just kept growing, and growing, and growing and growing and growing and growing.
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On May 03 2011 02:49 Devanthar wrote:
im a little confused about the books.. it says that the 5th book is coming out but i think to remember that there were something like 8 books i read. Were the german versions split into more books?
yes they were split in half because german sentences are longer on average and most modern people who go into a bookstore are scared of books that last longer than a drive to their workplace
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Germany2896 Posts
On May 03 2011 02:49 Devanthar wrote:
im a little confused about the books.. it says that the 5th book is coming out but i think to remember that there were something like 8 books i read. Were the german versions split into more books?
Yes. I think the first one was split in two, and some might even have had three parts in German.
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The british print of the 3rd book was also split in 2 parts. So far there are 4 books out, 5th coming in july. It was planned to be a trilogy and LUCKILY that didn't happen. It is now planned as an 8 book story saga.
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On May 03 2011 02:47 Maginor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Mormont is revealed to be the spy much earlier in the books. Ned and Robert talk about it in their conversation on the Kingsroad. Also, Jamie isn't really set up to be sympathetic. He threw a child out the window and says that he would kill everybody but himself and Cercei. In a few episodes on, he will also kill assault Ned in the streets and kill his men.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm obviously misremembering a few things.
I mean Jamie murdering the king as a sympathetic act, rather than just following oppertunity - basically Ned Stark's view of him. I guess this is partially because we don't get Jamie's POV in the book
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@ Quotidian
In the books they did mention that Cersei lost children via miscarriage or whatnot. I thought the TV adaptation of the idea was ingenious for all the reasons you are hinting at from the books.
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On May 03 2011 03:03 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:47 Maginor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Mormont is revealed to be the spy much earlier in the books. Ned and Robert talk about it in their conversation on the Kingsroad. Also, Jamie isn't really set up to be sympathetic. He threw a child out the window and says that he would kill everybody but himself and Cercei. In a few episodes on, he will also kill assault Ned in the streets and kill his men.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm obviously misremembering a few things.
I mean Jamie murdering the king as a sympathetic act, rather than just following oppertunity - basically Ned Stark's view of him. I guess this is partially because we don't get Jamie's POV in the book
+ Show Spoiler +You see that Ned doesn't believe that one bit in the tv series either though. He says "That's what you tell yourself at night? That it was justice?"
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On May 03 2011 01:27 piegasm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 15:38 Drowsy wrote:On May 02 2011 15:25 Gene wrote:
can someone tell me what about the syrio scene was so cool? Is it just that arya is getting what she wants, her character evolving? The actual fight choreography? because the former i can understand easily, but i fear the answer is the latter, which to me looked bad. or am i totally off base what did i miss Ned's "vietnamn flashback" reaction contrasted with the playful and joyfulness of Arya being allowed to do something fulfilling. It was like one minute I was laughing and smiling at cute Arya finally doing what she loves and being happy, then the mood suddenly turned somber as we're reminded of the violence Ned Stark has been through and how it's desensitized him. Syrio and Arya are also very cute in general. (And I was happy that not all the short guys are total a-holes that everyone but me loves.) More than Ned's flashbacks (for me anyway) I think it's the contrast between Arya enjoying being allowed to drop the pretense of being a proper little lady for a while and the beginning of the end of her innocence. She's being trained to kill and Ned is saddened by the thought that she may need that training sooner rather than later. I think he's hearing the instructor say she's dead over and over and picturing someone trying to stick a real sword in her and knowing how real a possibility that is. Ned was very determined to raise his kids apart from the intrigue and conspiracy surrounding the royals but he's getting sucked back into it.
Agreed, just a brilliant scene.
From the EW review: "There were no deaths, no wolves and no sex this week -- let alone death from sex with wolves, which is practically what we expect from the always shocking Thrones " LOL, so awesome.
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On May 03 2011 03:03 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:47 Maginor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Mormont is revealed to be the spy much earlier in the books. Ned and Robert talk about it in their conversation on the Kingsroad. Also, Jamie isn't really set up to be sympathetic. He threw a child out the window and says that he would kill everybody but himself and Cercei. In a few episodes on, he will also kill assault Ned in the streets and kill his men.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm obviously misremembering a few things.
I mean Jamie murdering the king as a sympathetic act, rather than just following oppertunity - basically Ned Stark's view of him. I guess this is partially because we don't get Jamie's POV in the book
+ Show Spoiler +And in the later books he narrates consistently about how Aerys was despicable, and he specifically recounts Brandon's and Ned's fathers deaths and how it affected him, or how he tore into into his wife multiple times. Without self narration they have to get the character's thoughts in somehow.
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Wow what a fantastic episode, why sooooo goooooodd.
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On May 03 2011 03:12 Maginor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 03:03 Quotidian wrote:On May 03 2011 02:47 Maginor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Mormont is revealed to be the spy much earlier in the books. Ned and Robert talk about it in their conversation on the Kingsroad. Also, Jamie isn't really set up to be sympathetic. He threw a child out the window and says that he would kill everybody but himself and Cercei. In a few episodes on, he will also kill assault Ned in the streets and kill his men.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm obviously misremembering a few things.
I mean Jamie murdering the king as a sympathetic act, rather than just following oppertunity - basically Ned Stark's view of him. I guess this is partially because we don't get Jamie's POV in the book + Show Spoiler +You see that Ned doesn't believe that one bit in the tv series either though. He says "That's what you tell yourself at night? That it was justice?"
+ Show Spoiler +No, I meant what we got - as readers - in the first book was Ned's version of Jamie, which is why the version we're seeing in the series doesn't seem correct for me at times. I just find him too likeable (in that I actually like the tv version) and "knightly," which has a lot to do with the warstories scene.
On May 03 2011 03:05 Gene wrote:
@ Quotidian
In the books they did mention that Cersei lost children via miscarriage or whatnot. I thought the TV adaptation of the idea was ingenious for all the reasons you are hinting at from the books.
well.. "miscarriage" is one way to put it... + Show Spoiler +
On May 03 2011 03:20 maliceee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 03:03 Quotidian wrote:On May 03 2011 02:47 Maginor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Mormont is revealed to be the spy much earlier in the books. Ned and Robert talk about it in their conversation on the Kingsroad. Also, Jamie isn't really set up to be sympathetic. He threw a child out the window and says that he would kill everybody but himself and Cercei. In a few episodes on, he will also kill assault Ned in the streets and kill his men.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm obviously misremembering a few things.
I mean Jamie murdering the king as a sympathetic act, rather than just following oppertunity - basically Ned Stark's view of him. I guess this is partially because we don't get Jamie's POV in the book + Show Spoiler +And in the later books he narrates consistently about how Aerys was despicable, and he specifically recounts Brandon's and Ned's fathers deaths and how it affected him, or how he tore into into his wife multiple times. Without self narration they have to get the character's thoughts in somehow.
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, but think it'd be better if they did this reveal in a way that was more in line with the order in books. I just think the pay-off for Jaime's development as a character would be stronger then.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 02 2011 18:27 tertos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 15:21 Drowsy wrote:On May 02 2011 14:35 slyboogie wrote:
Does anyone have a hard time not seeing Tommy Carcetti in Littlefinger Baelish? hahaha, he does accents so seamlessly. I keep expected him to do the Tommy Carcetti voice at any moment and pull off his mustache. god DAMN this show is good, I really can't find anything to complain about (I still don't like Tyrion as a character, but that's not a complaint against the show itself) and I really appreciate the slow pacing. Other fantasy series like Legend of the Seeker/Spartacus were too damn goofy and moved really fast. I feel like they're giving us a lot of time to take the world in and get a feel for Westeros before bombarding us with important events. + Show Spoiler +3 episodes in and the king hasn't even died yet. I actually just started the book, but I'm assuming he dies because otherwise how would there be a struggle for the throne? I guess it's all about relativity, to someone who did not read the books the show moves pretty slow. To someone who read the books the slow is so fast that you only catch glimpses of the actual story. guess some is up and running in a TV show that travels faster than light.
idk, I didn't read the books and the pacing seems fast to me
every episode just flew by the first time i watched it too
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Of course the pacing is fast, what did you expect? People complaining about pacing need to get over themselves, we are not going to get a paragraph by paragraph reinterpretation of the book. The fact that Martin worked so closely with HBO to do this, should be enough to shut you up. I am fairly confident that every concession he had to make for the sake of adaptation, he did only out of necessity.
I read all the books in a month, (thank god I only read them last year and haven't been waiting 6 years for the newest one to come out) and I have no complaints so far, except that I feel cat's character looks too old/unattractive, but thats just being nit picky. The scene with cersei and that little bitch joffrey I thought was great. It shows how much of a fool joffrey is, and cerseis view of everyone else. The book is so rich with the ideas of the characters it shows, they have no other way of conveying these things without adding in scenes like this.
Like someone else said, I think too many people who have read the books are thinking about the characters and how they are in book four, rather than how they are in book 1. To predict how they are going to fail to portray the characters correctly 2 seasons from now, is just ridiculous.
*edit*
It does seem kinda dumb that they portray Joffrey as hating Sansa though. I have faith they will do everything great, and so far I have not been let down (except of course for not seeing enough of ghost  )
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