EPT[TV] Dexter - Page 322
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
On September 14 2013 23:43 micronesia wrote: I will just generally stand by my claim that I personally didn't find the treadmill scene to pull me out of the show anymore than similar scenes from many other shows I watch that are generally considered good. I did not find it particularly illogical either. The acting was the biggest problem for me... laughing at Harrison's acting is understandable in my eyes (although the actor is just a kid, at least). I think many people in this thread have started going into the show in this season with an expectation of failure, and now it is going to happen, in their eyes, no matter what happens in the episode. Hopefully I'm wrong and the finale succeeds in blowing everyone away with how good it is. Here's my take on this: The treadmill scene is getting criticized so heavily because it exposes probably the most awful thing about Dexter, lately: the story has no purpose. There are a lot of things wrong with this scene. For starters, it's poorly staged, shot, and acted. These are easy criticisms for people to hitch their wagon to. The real problem runs deeper. Whereas terribly hilarious child-acting is easy to overlook, the fact that the scene is painfully contrived to produce a desired result is not. Harrison's injury serves a very transparent purpose. There was an earlier criticism in this thread: "It seems like event X happened in order to lead to event Y." You responded by saying that you can say this about nearly any story. This is true. The problem here is that we're acutely aware that event X happened in order to lead to event Y. We're thinking about it even while we're watching the scene. Instead of being engaged in the story, the audience is engaged in the machinations of bad writers. The audience is not thinking: "Oh my god, Harrison is hurt!", or not even "Oh wow, this means Hannah is going to have to expose herself in public." Instead, they're thinking: "Oh... the writers want Hannah to be seen in public so they fashioned this bad excuse for that to happen." The problem with this scene (and many others) is that it doesn't "fit". It's a random event. In the real world we refer to random events as "acts of god". In the narrative world, the writer is god... and here we have the hand of the writing gods reaching in to make something happen. The problem arises when you can see the hand. This isn't to say that there is no room for "random" events in a narrative. Not all events of a story must be part of a carefully woven tapestry with threads deeply rooted in the story preceding it -- sometimes there's room for a rip in the fabric... But, in a good story, that rip is well justified. We don't even have to look to another TV show for a good example of this. Take Rita's death. Prior to her death, Rita had to return home before leaving for her vacation as a result of a random accident: she left her ID at home! Boy golly, the writers sure are just reaching to make event Y (i.e. her murder) happen right? Not exactly, of course. We easily accept this "accident" because Rita's death still "fit" with the narrative flow. Her death showed that despite Dexter's best efforts his double life is unrealistic and destructive. He couldn't balance a healthy home life with the life of a serial killer. In that season we saw Dexter struggle with living in both worlds (a theme that has been woefully beaten to death by later seasons). After years of meticulously planning out his kills and having everything go according to plan, he was forced to match wits with another serial killer. In doing so, he deviated from his normal modus operandi. He passed on the chance to take him down in an attempt to gain insight into how another creature-of-the-night keeps a "normal" lifestyle during the day. When he finally pulled the trigger, it seemed as though he had won (as he always does). He didn't. Despite his planning, a random accident led to a colossal loss. A loss that weighs on him heavily because he had the opportunity to prevent it. This is a random event. This is the writers reaching in and doing X to produce result Y. The difference is that it hit home thematically. It fit the narrative. In real life, a "random" event will always appear to have no justification. That's why we perceive it as "random" (whether or not that's objectively true). A "random" event in a story will have no justification from within the narrative world, but, if it is well written, it will always have justification from the outside. By stark contrast to Rita's passport woes, the treadmill scene has no discernible effect on the story other than to make "Hannah getting caught" a palpable threat. It had no reason to occur from within the narrative universe and its external justification sucks balls. There's nothing interesting going on here. That's not just a problem with this scene, but just about everything this season. I mean... What exactly is this season trying to say? It's been a clusterfuck of narrative threads with no impetus. Let's see...
Truly, this is the kind of compelling question that you'd expect to arise out of the finale for a series focused on a vigilante serial killer. Oh. Also, Masuka has a fucking daughter and Quinn and Jamie are on the rocks. What. The show is completely disjointed. Thematically and narratively. There simply isn't anything going on here to care about... That's the trouble with this season and many of the later seasons of Dexter. There is no overarching flow because the stories have no real significance. This is clearest when the writers employ plot devices that rely on external justification. And so, the treadmill scene is exposed for what it is. A "random event" with poor justification. A poorly contrived plot device. If there's one thing to take away from this, it's that plot devices are just that: a device. Purely functional, ugly, and without polish. They work best as part of a finely tuned machine and are often useless on their own. "It seems like event X happened in order to lead to event Y." | ||
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HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
A contrived or arbitrary plot device may annoy or confuse the reader, causing a loss of the suspension of disbelief. However a well-crafted plot device, or one that emerges naturally from the setting or characters of the story, may be entirely accepted, or may even be unnoticed by the audience. The treadmill scene was a bad plot device. | ||
micronesia
United States24771 Posts
1) Your description of what the audience is or is not thinking after a scene like the treadmill scene (really, the second scene since there was one before where Harrison didn't hurt himself) makes me wonder. Personally, I and some other viewers in this thread were not thinking along the lines of the 'instead' thought. In fact, I bet some of the people claiming that they knew immediately why Harrison fell (to get Hanna exposed) are only saying that after they saw the hospital scene! Of course, not everybody. I think many of the people who have been turned off to Dexter lately would have been ok with the treadmill scene if they weren't already expecting to have issues with the episode. In fact I did mention earlier that I can totally understand people upset with the overuse of things in the recent season(s), even if no one thing in particular has bothered me personally. 2) Regarding your description here: In real life, a "random" event will always appear to have no justification. That's why we perceive it as "random" (whether or not that's objectively true). A "random" event in a story will have no justification from within the narrative world, but, if it is well written, it will always have justification from the outside. I'm not sure if I agree with this. I think generally the goal of writers is for everything that happens to happen for a reason (from the reader's perspective), and for great thought to go into every scene and event... but I don't know if that's always for the best. Having a requirement for writers to write this way removes a lot of potential richness from a story. Something unusual can happen in a story that isn't providing important symbolism or driving the story in a certain way. It doesn't have to be a red herring either. I think the strict philosophy you proposed, while a good general rule of writing, also puts a lot of limits on storytelling. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
IMO, it would have been better to pretend that more seasons will follow, and just don't worry about wrapping up every minor character's storyline. Hell, end the series on a cliffhanger, why not? This was never supposed to be a show with a conclusive ending, it feels really contrived to me that they're trying to give it one. | ||
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Spitmode
Germany1510 Posts
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
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1Dhalism
862 Posts
Also i think the writers really agree with the assessment that Dexter isnt a sociopath and has been trained by his father to kill. With Harry pushing him to do so through the last episodes. Also Debra with the gun and those ridiculously high heels - just breathtaking. | ||
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Uni1987
Netherlands642 Posts
On September 16 2013 18:00 Spitmode wrote: shit guys, after just having watched breaking bad S05E14, how the hell am I supposed to live through Dexter S08E11 without falling asleep? Rookie mistake, always watch it the other way around. | ||
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Ayush_SCtoss
India3051 Posts
Also, he's a fucking US Marshall. How doesn't he know there is a city manhunt for a guy that decapitates heads? | ||
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Vandrad
Germany951 Posts
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
This show has become entirely too Disney... | ||
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Neino
Norway295 Posts
On September 16 2013 18:00 Spitmode wrote: shit guys, after just having watched breaking bad S05E14, how the hell am I supposed to live through Dexter S08E11 without falling asleep? It's funny how people have to keep saying that every fucking week. Yes, bb is a better show. WE KNOW. Learn from your mistakes and stop doing it in that order, or just quit watching if it's that unsufferable. If you are one of those people who hate the show but still HAVE to know how it ends, why bother discussing it on forums? <.< (Not intended as an attack on you specifically btw, just quoted this one because it was the most recent) | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Neino
Norway295 Posts
On September 16 2013 23:58 Musicus wrote: I enjoyed this episode, even after watching breaking bad. Yeah Dexter looks a bit stupid right now. But that always happens at the end of a season. The chaos couldn't get any bigger, how will he get out of this? I will watch the final with a positive mindset. I like this. The show has a lot of flaws for sure, but I still enjoy watching it a lot more than the vast majority of shows. It doesn't have to be breaking bad | ||
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HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
On September 16 2013 11:02 micronesia wrote: Wow HawaiianPig a very thorough explanation of your take on this. Some of it goes beyond the level of thought I had given the scene, and I would need time to process it. There are a couple of things I want to point out though: 1) Your description of what the audience is or is not thinking after a scene like the treadmill scene (really, the second scene since there was one before where Harrison didn't hurt himself) makes me wonder. Personally, I and some other viewers in this thread were not thinking along the lines of the 'instead' thought. In fact, I bet some of the people claiming that they knew immediately why Harrison fell (to get Hanna exposed) are only saying that after they saw the hospital scene! Of course, not everybody. I think many of the people who have been turned off to Dexter lately would have been ok with the treadmill scene if they weren't already expecting to have issues with the episode. In fact I did mention earlier that I can totally understand people upset with the overuse of things in the recent season(s), even if no one thing in particular has bothered me personally. 2) Regarding your description here: I'm not sure if I agree with this. I think generally the goal of writers is for everything that happens to happen for a reason (from the reader's perspective), and for great thought to go into every scene and event... but I don't know if that's always for the best. Having a requirement for writers to write this way removes a lot of potential richness from a story. Something unusual can happen in a story that isn't providing important symbolism or driving the story in a certain way. It doesn't have to be a red herring either. I think the strict philosophy you proposed, while a good general rule of writing, also puts a lot of limits on storytelling. I'm playing dangerously and responding without having seen the most recent episode. Trying not to read other comments! 1) Point taken. I understand that not everyone watches the show with the same mindset, and that can affect how willing or unwilling we are to accept certain plot devices. 2) I think what I mean to say is that even a completely "random" event is planned by the writer. I don't think, by definition, that a "random" event can occur in writing. If the writer has strange events occur for seemingly no reason, there is some method to the madness -- a human mind who thought it thruogh. This is true even if the goal is simply to be subversive and to introduce chaos to the story. I struggle to think of a "random" event in a story that doesn't have some purpose, internal or external. Regardless of the source of that purpose, if I find that it contrived, poorly arrived at, or awfully executed, it makes the event hard to swallow. In this case, laughably so. | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada949 Posts
What the fuck | ||
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JKM
Denmark419 Posts
Unfortunately there is still too many monologues of Dexter explaining how he changed and in general what is going on in his head. Some of that should just have been shown through actions/reactions of Dexter, I still find it hard to believe that he suddenly started to care about "all" the people in his life, but Dexter claims so in his monologues. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
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