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On November 15 2011 17:08 Chrispy wrote:
What is that old man and wife pitchfork painting from? Was it in the episode or something?
Anyways I gotta say this was the silliest episode I've ever seen.
wtf Xpy, how do you not know American Gothic? It's one of the most famous and most parodied pieces of 20th century art.
also, yea, it was really silly. Just didn't feel right.
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On November 16 2011 01:15 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:00 floor exercise wrote:
I like how Dexter has such a hard time believing in god or higher powers this whole season when he regularly convenes with fucking ghosts like it's no big deal. Either this rational, intelligent and coldly logical guy is somehow completely unaware of his own insanity or the creators have written themselves into a corner when he didn't acknowledge it when Ghost Dad first showed up, and now it would appear like they are breaking the fourth wall for Dexter to actually realize how silly it is for him to routinely be talking to dead people like it's no big deal.
This show sucks, but I keep watching every season Uhm... They aren't ghosts.
Said with an almost casualness that suggests it's perfectly reasonable to regularly talk to and even argue with manifestations of dead people. What is a ghost by your definition? Whether they are entirely constructs of his own mind or if the Ghostbusters are going to burst in at any moment to take care of Ghost Dad and Ghost Bro, does it change that they are no longer living and he is still seeing them? And if that doesn't make them ghosts by definition I don't know what a ghost is and need your help.
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Disappointing episode. Even more so because I expected a great one after the last episode and the trailer.
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On November 16 2011 01:32 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:15 zalz wrote:On November 16 2011 01:00 floor exercise wrote:
I like how Dexter has such a hard time believing in god or higher powers this whole season when he regularly convenes with fucking ghosts like it's no big deal. Either this rational, intelligent and coldly logical guy is somehow completely unaware of his own insanity or the creators have written themselves into a corner when he didn't acknowledge it when Ghost Dad first showed up, and now it would appear like they are breaking the fourth wall for Dexter to actually realize how silly it is for him to routinely be talking to dead people like it's no big deal.
This show sucks, but I keep watching every season Uhm... They aren't ghosts. Said with an almost casualness that suggests it's perfectly reasonable to regularly talk to and even argue with manifestations of dead people. What is a ghost by your definition? Whether they are entirely constructs of his own mind or if the Ghostbusters are going to burst in at any moment to take care of Ghost Dad and Ghost Bro, does it change that they are no longer living and he is still seeing them? And if that doesn't make them ghosts by definition I don't know what a ghost is and need your help.
If a ghost exists then it is real. It exists outside of a persons perception of it.
A figment of imagination is fake wether it exists or not.
The difference being that the people Dexter sees are just manifestations of himself. The suggestion that they are ghosts would mean Dexter is being haunted and the series should get a fantasy tag slapped on it.
So yeah, it does make a difference. A ghost and an imaginary person are not the same. It's like saying that high heels and cowboy boots are the same thing just because they both go on your feet.
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They share the same common attribute in that they are both footwear. You're being pedantic. Is he or is he not seeing and interacting with dead people? Why then can I not call what he sees a ghost. if he sees imaginary horses, would you take exception to me saying "he is seeing horses" because I'm missing the ever so important modifier 'imaginary"
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so why did he stopped buying donuts for his coworkers?
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On November 15 2011 07:52 meowmeow- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 02:23 zalz wrote:
Terrible episode.
I haven't been a huge fan of this season so far but this episode is just ridiculous.
Don't pretend to go dark for a single episode just to steer it away with some bullshit "forgive yourself" message.
A clear example what happens when a writer wants to be edgy but doesn't have the balls to actually take the characters anywhere. A single episode in wich dexter goes near serial killer and then bounces back to superhero dexter?
And for what? He didn't kill Jonah cause he bashed in his abusive mother? Ooh im sorry Dex i didn't know you gave a pass on that but ofcourse a weed grower needs to get a pitchfork in the gut.
Look into the light of your heart, forgive yourself and embrace your lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Without light there is no darkness!!! This is some Japanese anime level philosophy. I could not agree any more. The episode was perfectly horrid. Stealing a gun from a gas station that certainly has his license plate after boning the teenage employee? He left more loose ends than in the first 3 seasons. Also, the depiction of his brother as a reckless, impulsive murderer doesn't fit the original one at all. The Icetruck killer was much more deliberate, calm and calculated.
pretty much exactly what i thought.
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On November 16 2011 01:58 floor exercise wrote:
They share the same common attribute in that they are both footwear. You're being pedantic. Is he or is he not seeing and interacting with dead people? Why then can I not call what he sees a ghost. if he sees imaginary horses, would you take exception to me saying "he is seeing horses" because I'm missing the ever so important modifier 'imaginary"
Because fight club is not in the same fucking genre as paranormal activity.
Ghosts and imaginary characters are not the same. They never were, they never will be. You might not understand the difference but that doesn't mean there is no difference, it just means you don't understand it.
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A man sees a horse. Another man imagines that he sees a horse. By your definition this second man does not, in his mind's eye, truly see a horse, because by definition a horse must be real. I was not prepared to debate consciousness when I labelled the manifestation of a dead person a ghost.
Fight Club has nothing to do with ghosts. At no point does anyone see a dead person as though they are alive. You're right they see an imaginary person. But by your explanation that no longer is a person and cannot be called such
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so what actually are you arguing about?
dexter is perfectly aware that he is not normal, it's one of his lesser problems that he imagines those dead persons
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On November 16 2011 02:18 floor exercise wrote:
A man sees a horse. Another man imagines that he sees a horse. By your definition this second man does not, in his mind's eye, truly see a horse, because by definition a horse must be real. I was not prepared to debate consciousness when I labelled the manifestation of a dead person a ghost.
Fight Club has nothing to do with ghosts. At no point does anyone see a dead person as though they are alive. You're right they see an imaginary person. But by your explanation that no longer is a person and cannot be called such
Are you proud that you can't tell the difference between a ghost and an imaginary character?
Because if i just had to explain this to a person that didn't get it, that would be fine. You on the other hand seem to almost take pride in the fact that you don't understand the difference between the two.
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Dexters father and brother arent actually there and dont exist anymore. They are just visualized by Dexters Brain.
A ghost IS THERE, you just cant see him.
The big difference probably is, that imaginery people exist ( in some peoples mind ) - ghosts dont.
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Because you can't seem to distinguish between the fact that "a ghost" and "an imagined ghost" are still by definition both ghosts. Whether one is "real" or not is not relevant. What he sees are ghosts because it is the spirit of dead people. Just because they cannot rattle the windows of a haunted house does not mean that he is not seeing ghosts.
If I said, "he is talking to horses" would you then have replied smugly "heh... those aren't horses" because they are in his head and not actually grazing on real, physical grassland? You're the one who tried to drop your knowledge on me here with your stupid one line response when I dared mention the G word, which is exactly what they are by definition whether physically real or not.
On November 16 2011 02:40 Himbeer wrote:
Dexters father and brother arent actually there and dont exist anymore. They are just visualized by Dexters Brain.
A ghost IS THERE, you just cant see him.
The big difference probably is, that imaginery people exist ( in some peoples mind ) - ghosts dont.
No, none of them exist. An imaginary person, ghost, rabbit, none of them are real. it doesn't change that an imaginary person is a person,a ghost is a ghost, and a rabbit is a rabbit. I seriously don't know what this guys problem is with them being ghosts. They are, in dexter's mind, or in reality, or in any alternate reality you can imagine, walking talking manifestations of dead people, otherwise known as ghosts.
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can you guys just stop?
this is probably the most painfully stupid discussion I've read in years.
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On November 16 2011 02:44 floor exercise wrote:
Because you can't seem to distinguish between the fact that "a ghost" and "an imagined ghost" are still by definition both ghosts. Whether one is "real" or not is not relevant. What he sees are ghosts because it is the spirit of dead people. Just because they cannot rattle the windows of a haunted house does not mean that he is not seeing ghosts.
If I said, "he is talking to horses" would you then have replied smugly "heh... those aren't horses" because they are in his head and not actually grazing on real, physical grassland? You're the one who tried to drop your knowledge on me here with your stupid one line response when I dared mention the G word, which is exactly what they are by definition whether physically real or not.
It is not the "spirit of dead people" exactly. Dexters father and brother are not actually them but how Dexter perceives them and then recreates them in his imagination. They are not ghosts because they only exist to Dexter. If a ghost exists, then a ghost exists to everyone, not just to one person. When it's only one person, it's a figment of imagination. So yes, whether one is real or not is totally relevant because it's not a ghost if it's pure imagination.
To edit cause you responded again, it's an imaginary person. Not an imaginary ghost. They are manifestations of Dexter himself through his perception of his brother and father.
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Australia3818 Posts
They are similar to ghosts, but they aren't ghosts in my opinion.
I have always thought of Harry being there, as Dexter's thought process through him...rather than actually being directed by a ghost. Harry engrained so much into him growing up, that it's almost like he sees/hears him. Dexter's mind is warped enough in a certain sense for this to almost be a normal state of affairs.
I must admit that last episode was interesting in that Brian seemed to have a lot more influence over the scenes than Harry ever did; probably due to him being the killer interested in murder for murder's sake...but it was strange when he was the one stabbing with the pitch-fork, or eating at the table earlier in the episode. I felt that this was meant to make us think that Dexter had finally relented and had totally changed to 'the dark side'.
It blurs the line, but for me it definitely doesn't convey that they are ghosts in the typical sense, more just the angel and devil on the shoulders - a physical manifestation of the conscience rather than a supernatural being.
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On November 16 2011 02:55 Smurg wrote:
I have always thought of Harry being there, as Dexter's thought process through him...rather than actually being directed by a ghost. Harry engrained so much into him growing up, that it's almost like he sees/hears him. Dexter's mind is warped enough in a certain sense for this to almost be a normal state of affairs.
This. Harry is basically Dexter's consciousness. Instead of having the usual "should I, is that good, is that bad" dialog in his mind, he visualises having a conversation with an imaginary person.
Don't know what show someone must've watched to come to the conclusion that Dexter is 'seeing ghosts'.
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On November 16 2011 02:44 floor exercise wrote:Because you can't seem to distinguish between the fact that "a ghost" and "an imagined ghost" are still by definition both ghosts. Whether one is "real" or not is not relevant. What he sees are ghosts because it is the spirit of dead people. Just because they cannot rattle the windows of a haunted house does not mean that he is not seeing ghosts. If I said, "he is talking to horses" would you then have replied smugly "heh... those aren't horses" because they are in his head and not actually grazing on real, physical grassland? You're the one who tried to drop your knowledge on me here with your stupid one line response when I dared mention the G word, which is exactly what they are by definition whether physically real or not. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:40 Himbeer wrote:
Dexters father and brother arent actually there and dont exist anymore. They are just visualized by Dexters Brain.
A ghost IS THERE, you just cant see him.
The big difference probably is, that imaginery people exist ( in some peoples mind ) - ghosts dont.
No, none of them exist. An imaginary person, ghost, rabbit, none of them are real. it doesn't change that an imaginary person is a person,a ghost is a ghost, and a rabbit is a rabbit. I seriously don't know what this guys problem is with them being ghosts. They are, in dexter's mind, or in reality, or in any alternate reality you can imagine, walking talking manifestations of dead people, otherwise known as ghosts.
Again, just cause you are too slow to grasp the difference doesn't mean there isn't a difference. A ghost and an imaginary character are not the same, that is just a fact. Just because you got stuck in kindergarten doesn't mean that the words mean the same thing.
I feel like a broken record but maybe repetition is the only way you learn.
If you still don't get it maybe someone can get you some paper and crayons and start from the basics.
I must admit that last episode was interesting in that Brian seemed to have a lot more influence over the scenes than Harry ever did; probably due to him being the killer interested in murder for murder's sake...but it was strange when he was the one stabbing with the pitch-fork, or eating at the table earlier in the episode. I felt that this was meant to make us think that Dexter had finally relented and had totally changed to 'the dark side'.
Brian was a lot more hands on, i reasoned it as Dexter letting go of control and giving into his nature.
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On November 16 2011 02:54 SkysLa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:44 floor exercise wrote:
Because you can't seem to distinguish between the fact that "a ghost" and "an imagined ghost" are still by definition both ghosts. Whether one is "real" or not is not relevant. What he sees are ghosts because it is the spirit of dead people. Just because they cannot rattle the windows of a haunted house does not mean that he is not seeing ghosts.
If I said, "he is talking to horses" would you then have replied smugly "heh... those aren't horses" because they are in his head and not actually grazing on real, physical grassland? You're the one who tried to drop your knowledge on me here with your stupid one line response when I dared mention the G word, which is exactly what they are by definition whether physically real or not. It is not the "spirit of dead people" exactly. Dexters father and brother are not actually them but how Dexter perceives them and then recreates them in his imagination. They are not ghosts because they only exist to Dexter. If a ghost exists, then a ghost exists to everyone, not just to one person. When it's only one person, it's a figment of imagination. So yes, whether one is real or not is totally relevant because it's not a ghost if it's pure imagination. To edit cause you responded again, it's an imaginary person. Not an imaginary ghost.
Okay. If a deceased ancestor of yours was haunting your mind, whether or not it is a real affliction or the construct of your mind, how or why would you label that a person and not a ghost?
Why would anyone ever take exception to that being called a ghost? Whether or not it's imagined.
Would you not describe this problem as being 'haunted by the imaginary ghost of my dead father' or 'an imaginary person that looks and acts like my father, who happens to be dead'?
Why is this not a ghost? How is this even a debate? It's a perfectly reasonable description of what is going on in Dexter's mind by any definition you will find in any dictionary of what a ghost is.
Sound the fuckin alarms!
Where is the problem? Other than Professor Pedant over here who doesn't really know what he's talking about
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man, this guy is determined
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EPT
