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On May 02 2019 13:06 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2019 01:02 Salteador Neo wrote:On April 28 2019 09:53 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 28 2019 05:38 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 28 2019 04:53 Sermokala wrote:On April 28 2019 04:45 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 28 2019 03:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On April 28 2019 03:09 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 28 2019 01:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On April 28 2019 01:39 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +Oddly enough I found your issue to be one of the movie's strong suits. People were expecting the introduction Cpt Marvel to be a cop out as to how to save the world. Instead, she barely made any difference within the movie. What I didn't like was that they had no introductory scene for when she met the other avengers. She was just "there" all of the sudden. I am sure I saw a scene about the avengers checking out Fury's signal in one of the post credit scenes or a trailer, so the producers probably just cut that part?
Unrelated question: How did the Avengers know that the time stone would be in New York at that time, when it was five years before Dr. Strange even acquired it?
+ Show Spoiler +They knew where Strange lived and they went to that location. He wasn't SS at the time, but it would still be in that location or somewhere nearby. + Show Spoiler +That is not an explanation at all. Black Widow (I think) said "if we hit the right time, three of the stones will be in New York". However, it was FIVE YEARS before Steven Strange became Dr. Strange. Knowing that he would own the stone in New York five years from now gave them no knowledge whatsoever where the stone would be at that time. By that reasoning, the stone could be literally anywhere in the universe. + Show Spoiler +But that place where Banner fell has been there for a long ass time and he was sent there because he knew exactly where it was. That's why it was him and not someone else. They knew about all of the events, so tracing things back would have been easy for them to do. And technically, he was Dr. Strange, just not Sorcerer Supreme Dr. Strange. And when the Chitari attacked, the Ancient One was defending the city as well, that's why she was there on the rooftop. She had to be there to protect the city from an off-world invasion. + Show Spoiler + I'm sorry but I don't think you understand at all... All of what you are saying is true, but NOTHING you said explains why the TIME STONE should be there at that time OR why the avengers should know about it being there + Show Spoiler +They didn't know that Dr strange wouldn't be there with the time stone. They only met a short time ago when banner fell into the place in new york. They assumed he would be there with the stone and they had no other clue about where/when the stone would be. + Show Spoiler + They thought they had only ONE shot to get all stones at once and it was specifically said that THREE stones would be in New York at that time. So somehow they knew (thought they knew) about the time stone being there. They essentially got lucky off of what ended up being a wrong assumption. + Show Spoiler +That was the right assumption tho? In IW Dr Strange told them that guarding the Time Stone it is the duty of the Sorcerer Supreme.
Banner, Stark and Thor met Dr Strange at some place in NY, which happens to be filled with weird magic stuff, remember how Strange scolds Thor for touching some stuff. So they assumed there would be another SS guarding the stone there. Fair assumption IMO. + Show Spoiler +To me, it seemed like they were specifically looking for Dr Strange at first, got unlucky with the timing, and then got lucky with the Ancient One being there instead. It didn't seem like they were expecting another Sorcerer Supreme, though it's not specified on whether they talked to any other sorcerers post-IW.
+ Show Spoiler +I didn't get that feeling regarding Dr Strange, but I would need to rewatch to confirm. They were trying to pinpoint the location of the Stones and they had the reference of that place in NY. They had limited resources regarding time travel so I think they went with that. If they get the chance to get 3 stones in NY at the same point in time, that's a winner. Whether the time stone was guarded by Strange or someone else was irrelevant as long as it was there, and it was a fair assumption.
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On May 02 2019 20:11 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 13:06 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 30 2019 01:02 Salteador Neo wrote:On April 28 2019 09:53 eviltomahawk wrote:On April 28 2019 05:38 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 28 2019 04:53 Sermokala wrote:On April 28 2019 04:45 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 28 2019 03:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On April 28 2019 03:09 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:On April 28 2019 01:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +They knew where Strange lived and they went to that location. He wasn't SS at the time, but it would still be in that location or somewhere nearby. + Show Spoiler +That is not an explanation at all. Black Widow (I think) said "if we hit the right time, three of the stones will be in New York". However, it was FIVE YEARS before Steven Strange became Dr. Strange. Knowing that he would own the stone in New York five years from now gave them no knowledge whatsoever where the stone would be at that time. By that reasoning, the stone could be literally anywhere in the universe. + Show Spoiler +But that place where Banner fell has been there for a long ass time and he was sent there because he knew exactly where it was. That's why it was him and not someone else. They knew about all of the events, so tracing things back would have been easy for them to do. And technically, he was Dr. Strange, just not Sorcerer Supreme Dr. Strange. And when the Chitari attacked, the Ancient One was defending the city as well, that's why she was there on the rooftop. She had to be there to protect the city from an off-world invasion. + Show Spoiler + I'm sorry but I don't think you understand at all... All of what you are saying is true, but NOTHING you said explains why the TIME STONE should be there at that time OR why the avengers should know about it being there + Show Spoiler +They didn't know that Dr strange wouldn't be there with the time stone. They only met a short time ago when banner fell into the place in new york. They assumed he would be there with the stone and they had no other clue about where/when the stone would be. + Show Spoiler + They thought they had only ONE shot to get all stones at once and it was specifically said that THREE stones would be in New York at that time. So somehow they knew (thought they knew) about the time stone being there. They essentially got lucky off of what ended up being a wrong assumption. + Show Spoiler +That was the right assumption tho? In IW Dr Strange told them that guarding the Time Stone it is the duty of the Sorcerer Supreme.
Banner, Stark and Thor met Dr Strange at some place in NY, which happens to be filled with weird magic stuff, remember how Strange scolds Thor for touching some stuff. So they assumed there would be another SS guarding the stone there. Fair assumption IMO. + Show Spoiler +To me, it seemed like they were specifically looking for Dr Strange at first, got unlucky with the timing, and then got lucky with the Ancient One being there instead. It didn't seem like they were expecting another Sorcerer Supreme, though it's not specified on whether they talked to any other sorcerers post-IW. + Show Spoiler +I didn't get that feeling regarding Dr Strange, but I would need to rewatch to confirm. They were trying to pinpoint the location of the Stones and they had the reference of that place in NY. They had limited resources regarding time travel so I think they went with that. If they get the chance to get 3 stones in NY at the same point in time, that's a winner. Whether the time stone was guarded by Strange or someone else was irrelevant as long as it was there, and it was a fair assumption.
+ Show Spoiler + I'm pretty sure they thought that Dr. Strange was in NY with the time stone all the way back in 2012. That's why when the Hulk was goes there, he asks where Dr. Strange is, and the Ancient One tells him he came to the past too far, because Strange won't be here for few more years. Then Hulk notices the necklace that Ancient One is wearing, and figures that he doesn't need Dr. Strange anymore.
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+ Show Spoiler +A few things I liked and a few things I didn’t like. How can captain marvel fly a ship 1000 light years in seemingly less than a day does she have a warp drive super power? The beginning was very slow paced and pretty boring. There were also many plot holes due to them using time travel as a plot point. What is the point of returning infinity stones to the point they took them if they screwed up the past in many other ways. Thanos and his army don’t even exist in the past anymore. Loki has the tesseract. Gamora is alive again in the future. I mean if you could just pull people from the past to the future why not just take Tony and Natasha from the point after Thanos did his first snap and bring them to the future. I liked that Cap used Thor’s hammer but I don’t like he can summon lightning with it. The things I did like were the ending fights and the journey colllecting the stones. Overall just too many ridiculous things with time travel made me not really enjoy the story. Overall 6/10
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During the Borderlands3 reveal there was a hilarious spoiler by 1 of the people "co streaming" the reveal event.
The title of the stream appeared on Twitch.tv's featured channels list. It was
+ Show Spoiler +"Tony Stark Dies - There I Saved You $15"
juvenile humour LOL.
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On May 03 2019 04:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:During the Borderlands3 reveal there was a hilarious spoiler by 1 of the people "co streaming" the reveal event. The title of the stream appeared on Twitch.tv's featured channels list. It was + Show Spoiler +"Tony Stark Dies - There I Saved You $15" juvenile humour LOL.
The movie hadn't come out yet at that point, so it wouldn't be much of a spoiler, and more of an educated guess. + Show Spoiler +For those who had been paying attention, we knew that both RBJ and Chris Evans weren't going to do any more movies, and was going to exit the franchise in one way or another. I wasn't expecting Natasha tho, but being the soul gem and all that, that particular death might not be final. edit: Apparently the writing was on the wall for SJ as well, so nvm the last bit there.
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The Borderlands3 gameplay reveal occurred May 1. I probably should've been more specific.
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On May 03 2019 01:28 RealZork wrote:+ Show Spoiler +A few things I liked and a few things I didn’t like. How can captain marvel fly a ship 1000 light years in seemingly less than a day does she have a warp drive super power? The beginning was very slow paced and pretty boring. There were also many plot holes due to them using time travel as a plot point. What is the point of returning infinity stones to the point they took them if they screwed up the past in many other ways. Thanos and his army don’t even exist in the past anymore. Loki has the tesseract. Gamora is alive again in the future. I mean if you could just pull people from the past to the future why not just take Tony and Natasha from the point after Thanos did his first snap and bring them to the future. I liked that Cap used Thor’s hammer but I don’t like he can summon lightning with it. The things I did like were the ending fights and the journey colllecting the stones. Overall just too many ridiculous things with time travel made me not really enjoy the story. Overall 6/10
Let me try to give my view on some of your questions/comments
+ Show Spoiler +I assumed she filled up their power supply so they could breathe again. It was never said that the trip took one day. Also she probably used one of those jump gates that they used later to get to Titan and kill their time Thanos.
They didn't screw up the past, they created parallel/alternate worlds/timelines with their meddling. They returned the stones to not screw them even more and create even more parallel worlds/timelines. Thanos does not exist in alternate 2014 world but it exists in other versions of the universe. Loki and tesseract is another alternate timeline they created.
They could try to take people from past to bring them to their world but then they create alternate timelines where those characters don't exist and people in that world suffer as a result. And then that might cause who knows what kind of destruction and people from that timeline might blame them for it and maybe want to get revenge. Kind of like how the TV show Fringe worked.
Lightning was the power of the hammer. Thor later learned to summon lightning without using the hammer, cap can use the weaker version of it.
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United States996 Posts
On April 29 2019 21:31 love2d wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2019 18:39 Pr0wler wrote:Good movie visually and good action, but... + Show Spoiler +The time travel killed the story for me completely. Some people never learn. Wtf was that Nebula shit ? Time travel affects memory disks now ? Quantum realm ? From the point they started talking about time travel I stopped caring about the story and just enjoyed the visuals. 7/10 for me. + Show Spoiler +Full agreement.
The whole time travel - multiverse thing made me feel like the stakes couldn't be any lower. They have infinite do-overs anyway, so who cares. Nothing is final. The snap wasn't even final. Everyone's back.
Even when they tried to make it absolutely clear that everyone only had one flask of Pym juice, when Cap and Tony fucked up, they found a way to get more Pym juice. So even that arbitrary constraint isn't really a constraint to begin with.
So yeah, 7/10 is about right.
+ Show Spoiler +i'm surprised this isn't more people's opinion as well. i'm really not a plot-picker-apart'er but time travel is always tough, and when you wind up in a spot where you have infinite do overs the movie just loses all its tension (not my only gripe with the time travel premise or rest of the movie at large). i still left the theatre giving it a solid 7.5, which given everything it had to accomplish and the completely telegraphed ending is still very impressive...but man i don't get the 10/10 love.
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Literally the only reason the movie is as big as it is, is because it's the big conclusion of a very popular series with a lot of big fan favorite characters getting closure etc.
On its own, there's no way this is the best movie of all time. For me, it's not even the best movie of MCU.
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On May 03 2019 08:21 Salazarz wrote:
Literally the only reason the movie is as big as it is, is because it's the big conclusion of a very popular series with a lot of big fan favorite characters getting closure etc.
On its own, there's no way this is the best movie of all time. For me, it's not even the best movie of MCU.
I don't get this. The reason its so big and so good is beacuse its the big conclusion of 10 years and 22 movies. I don't know how people can separate the two and somehow judge a movie based on taking a basic part of the movie out.
TFA had the same issue. Its a soft reboot in order to slide everyone into the new world of Disney's star wars lore. It had to get hardcore fans over the hitch of burning everything the star wars IP had done pretty much from return of the jedi. It had to slide in lapsed fans who only knew the movies and hated the prequels. It had to mythologize the original trilogy and somehow create a new path forward. These are core parts of the movie and it shouldn't be judged separate from these efforts.
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I really, really enjoyed the movie, especially all of the intimate moments between main characters and their loved ones. I think criticizing the collection of the stones as being "slow" is missing the point; Tony saw his dad and Cap saw Carter (both of which were instrumental in their character arcs coming to a close), Nat and Clint, Clint and his family, Lang and his family, Thor and his mother, etc. They managed to naturally fit all of these things without seeming like total bullshit.
And holy crap, if you're single, do not rest until you find a person who looks at you the way Tony Stark looks at Peter Parker when he returns. Loved that moment.
I agree with most other people here that fitting Captain Marvel in is tough, as either she's seen as useless/ irrelevant or overpowered/ deus ex machina. I think her usefulness here was about as balanced as possible: she was the only one capable of rescuing Tony and Nebula, she destroyed the huge flying warship that was basically Thanos's ultimate weapon, and she helped a little in the fight against Thanos. If she was in more scenes, she would have either soloed everything or would have gotten uncharacteristically nerfed.
What did you guys think about the post-credits teaser? It was just an audio clip- metal hammering/ clanking on metal- which immediately made me think of Iron Man. Considering Cap is handing over the reins of his position, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a new Iron Man as well. The most obvious candidate, I think, is Black Panther's younger, brainy, tech-savvy, badass-attitude-similar-to-Stark sister. I think that'd be cool.
There was also a tiny Easter egg at Stark's funeral... everyone there was obvious to me except for a young boy who seemed out of place (right before the camera panned to Marvel and Fury at the end of that scene). I looked up who he was and he was a little boy who's helped out Stark in previous Iron Man movie scenes. Maybe he'll be relevant in some way again too...
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oh wow I was wondering who that boy was. I thought I just forgot someone.
I think the post credits hammering sound was just a call back to the cave scene at the start of iron man 1. It would be super boss if they used it in a pre death of superman role with just a simple "Galactus is coming" Before ever referencing him or alluding to him in any way.
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Spain17989 Posts
Watched it yesterday so don't have to hide from spoilers anymore. Wow. Fantastic ending to a saga.
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Let me try to explain the going into the past and the time travel in this movie, since, it looks like many people did not get it, but it was one of the things that were well made imo. Time travel is not like in the other movies, they cannot change the past and therefore the present and future by going back and changing stuff there because going into the past is not actually the past of the character(s) who goes there but it is their future or present, whatever happened in the past already happened, cannot be changed and when a person goes back its actually his/her present, thats why they were able to take things from there,, speak and fight with people, even bring people into the future (thanos, gamora) and this had nothing to with the past, only with the present and the future. However, the only exceptions are the stones, the moment you take out a stone from its timeline it creates a parallel universe in which everything will be different, impacted by the fact that the stone is not there, so actually the stones work like we were used for time travel to work from all other movies, thats why they had to go back and return them and shutdown the all possible parallel paths. And the last thing is that they say that going into the past has its consequences after all but we dont know what are they for now
p.s. One of the things that its not well tied in this plot imo is that why would they not go back in the near past and bring a brand new tony stark to stay with his family etc.
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On May 03 2019 18:50 M2 wrote:
Let me try to explain the going into the past and the time travel in this movie, since, it looks like many people did not get it, but it was one of the things that were well made imo. Time travel is not like in the other movies, they cannot change the past and therefore the present and future by going back and changing stuff there because going into the past is not actually the past of the character(s) who goes there but it is their future or present, whatever happened in the past already happened, cannot be changed and when a person goes back its actually his/her present, thats why they were able to take things from there,, speak and fight with people, even bring people into the future (thanos, gamora) and this had nothing to with the past, only with the present and the future. However, the only exceptions are the stones, the moment you take out a stone from its timeline it creates a parallel universe in which everything will be different, impacted by the fact that the stone is not there, so actually the stones work like we were used for time travel to work from all other movies, thats why they had to go back and return them and shutdown the all possible parallel paths. And the last thing is that they say that going into the past has its consequences after all but we dont know what are they for now
p.s. One of the things that its not well tied in this plot imo is that why would they not go back in the near past and bring a brand new tony stark to stay with his family etc.
Another issue is that Captain America going to the past should then not have been able to show up in the present day as an old man. For that to be possible he would've had to changed the past, which they stated several times to not be possible. I don't mind it too much as it made a really fitting end for his character, but they're not being entirely consistent unfortunately.
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Spain17989 Posts
On May 03 2019 20:20 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2019 18:50 M2 wrote:
Let me try to explain the going into the past and the time travel in this movie, since, it looks like many people did not get it, but it was one of the things that were well made imo. Time travel is not like in the other movies, they cannot change the past and therefore the present and future by going back and changing stuff there because going into the past is not actually the past of the character(s) who goes there but it is their future or present, whatever happened in the past already happened, cannot be changed and when a person goes back its actually his/her present, thats why they were able to take things from there,, speak and fight with people, even bring people into the future (thanos, gamora) and this had nothing to with the past, only with the present and the future. However, the only exceptions are the stones, the moment you take out a stone from its timeline it creates a parallel universe in which everything will be different, impacted by the fact that the stone is not there, so actually the stones work like we were used for time travel to work from all other movies, thats why they had to go back and return them and shutdown the all possible parallel paths. And the last thing is that they say that going into the past has its consequences after all but we dont know what are they for now
p.s. One of the things that its not well tied in this plot imo is that why would they not go back in the near past and bring a brand new tony stark to stay with his family etc. Another issue is that Captain America going to the past should then not have been able to show up in the present day as an old man. For that to be possible he would've had to changed the past, which they stated several times to not be possible. I don't mind it too much as it made a really fitting end for his character, but they're not being entirely consistent unfortunately.
The time travel isn't totally consistent, but also not quite what M2 said. It's not just removing infinity stones that splits off a parallel reality, it's any change. That's so that you cannot go back in time and kill your father. You don't kill *your* father. You split off an alternate reality in which your father was murdered and you were never born (as in, if Tony had taken a detour to go and murder his pregnant mother). What the Ancient One explains is that most of those realities are fine and nothing you change has much consequence in the grand scheme of things, however, the infinity stones somehow hold everything together, so removing one will cause *bad things* to happen.
You cannot simply go back in time and kidnap tony stark and tell him you need him in your timeline, as tony stark clearly has things going on in his own time and telling him "look, you're dead in the future, and we just want to skip that bit where you die, so come with us" isn't going to convince him to leave his Pepper Potts and move with you to future Pepper Potts, because he's smart enough to know that if he needs to do something to save the universe (tm) and that ends with him dying, then if he's not there he's about to create a very bad universe. Not "remove an infinity stone" bad, but pretty damn bad for his own Pepper Potts and cute-daughter Stark. That's why you can't go back in time and fetch Tony.
As for how old-man Captain appeared, my idea was that they brought him back, and then took a poetic license to have him appear on the little bench overlooking the lake rather than that he appeared in the portal thingy. They specifically said: "for us, 5 seconds, but for him however long it takes". It took his entire life, which he lived happily in an alternate reality, and he got whisked out of that to return to reality 1.
That said, if Loki pops up with a tesseract in reality 1, then who knows what's going on with time travel in the MCU.
One thing I didn't get is why they brought everybody back 5 years in the future. Imagine being a random survivor: half the world gets snapped. You live on. Chaos, anarchy and savagery happens. You grieve for the loss of your wife and kinds. Then 5 years later: doublesnap, everybody's back. But the world is the fucked up mess of 5 years later. HOW IS THAT A GOOD IDEA?!
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
The Loki thing is them showing he isn't dead as Disney+ are making a Loki tv series right. So now huzzah he isn't dead xd
Was my guess anyway.
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On May 03 2019 20:39 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2019 20:20 Excludos wrote:On May 03 2019 18:50 M2 wrote:
Let me try to explain the going into the past and the time travel in this movie, since, it looks like many people did not get it, but it was one of the things that were well made imo. Time travel is not like in the other movies, they cannot change the past and therefore the present and future by going back and changing stuff there because going into the past is not actually the past of the character(s) who goes there but it is their future or present, whatever happened in the past already happened, cannot be changed and when a person goes back its actually his/her present, thats why they were able to take things from there,, speak and fight with people, even bring people into the future (thanos, gamora) and this had nothing to with the past, only with the present and the future. However, the only exceptions are the stones, the moment you take out a stone from its timeline it creates a parallel universe in which everything will be different, impacted by the fact that the stone is not there, so actually the stones work like we were used for time travel to work from all other movies, thats why they had to go back and return them and shutdown the all possible parallel paths. And the last thing is that they say that going into the past has its consequences after all but we dont know what are they for now
p.s. One of the things that its not well tied in this plot imo is that why would they not go back in the near past and bring a brand new tony stark to stay with his family etc. Another issue is that Captain America going to the past should then not have been able to show up in the present day as an old man. For that to be possible he would've had to changed the past, which they stated several times to not be possible. I don't mind it too much as it made a really fitting end for his character, but they're not being entirely consistent unfortunately. The time travel isn't totally consistent, but also not quite what M2 said. It's not just removing infinity stones that splits off a parallel reality, it's any change. That's so that you cannot go back in time and kill your father. You don't kill *your* father. You split off an alternate reality in which your father was murdered and you were never born (as in, if Tony had taken a detour to go and murder his pregnant mother). What the Ancient One explains is that most of those realities are fine and nothing you change has much consequence in the grand scheme of things, however, the infinity stones somehow hold everything together, so removing one will cause *bad things* to happen. You cannot simply go back in time and kidnap tony stark and tell him you need him in your timeline, as tony stark clearly has things going on in his own time and telling him "look, you're dead in the future, and we just want to skip that bit where you die, so come with us" isn't going to convince him to leave his Pepper Potts and move with you to future Pepper Potts, because he's smart enough to know that if he needs to do something to save the universe (tm) and that ends with him dying, then if he's not there he's about to create a very bad universe. Not "remove an infinity stone" bad, but pretty damn bad for his own Pepper Potts and cute-daughter Stark. That's why you can't go back in time and fetch Tony. As for how old-man Captain appeared, my idea was that they brought him back, and then took a poetic license to have him appear on the little bench overlooking the lake rather than that he appeared in the portal thingy. They specifically said: "for us, 5 seconds, but for him however long it takes". It took his entire life, which he lived happily in an alternate reality, and he got whisked out of that to return to reality 1. That said, if Loki pops up with a tesseract in reality 1, then who knows what's going on with time travel in the MCU. One thing I didn't get is why they brought everybody back 5 years in the future. Imagine being a random survivor: half the world gets snapped. You live on. Chaos, anarchy and savagery happens. You grieve for the loss of your wife and kinds. Then 5 years later: doublesnap, everybody's back. But the world is the fucked up mess of 5 years later. HOW IS THAT A GOOD IDEA?!
The latter part is an really interesting angle that they could explore further. Endgame makes a case that it's a good idea because most people couldn't move on after their terrible losses, but there's bound to be consequences for suddenly popping everyone back as well.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
Don't think they will make any Avenger's movies any time soon, they used up the best piece of comic book writing on it and well produced "that" movie series. Their is to many heroes they killed off for it to be rebooted with any of the other stories left. They have no rights to X Men or Fantastic 4 which are the main heroes in most of the rest and they need those characters to replace the ones they don't have access to now.
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Spain17989 Posts
On May 03 2019 21:04 Pandemona wrote:
Don't think they will make any Avenger's movies any time soon, they used up the best piece of comic book writing on it and well produced "that" movie series. Their is to many heroes they killed off for it to be rebooted with any of the other stories left. They have no rights to X Men or Fantastic 4 which are the main heroes in most of the rest and they need those characters to replace the ones they don't have access to now.
Isn't the fox deal closed yet?
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EPT
