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On February 17 2013 21:52 123Gurke wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 21:14 Cambium wrote:Just read the wiki page on Ilium and Olympos, I think I'll read The Iliad & The Odyssey before  You should definitely start with the Iliad. It is by far the more interesting book. I do not know about the quality and readability of English translations (assuming you will not read the original ancient Greek), but it is probably worth it to invest some research into the characteristics of different translations. Those texts are not very accessible for today's reader, so a good translation can make a huge difference. When in doubt I would opt for the more readable translation over ones that follow the original more strictly. It will be a tough read anyway (although it is definitely worth it), but you should not make your life harder than necessary. You can still read stricter translations later for the parts you really like.
I think Robert Fagle is the more well-known version for English? Anyone want to comment on this?
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On February 17 2013 18:53 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 18:25 sam!zdat wrote:
lol that's why you're all angsty
wtf you reading heidegger son
go read somehting fun  I am actually using this book as my last chance to see if I am capable of philosophy or not.
You know, you can do philosophy without reading and writing like the most obtuse writers in history.
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Should I start reading the Dresden Files or Heroes Die? I think both series look very interesting. Can't decide...
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On February 18 2013 00:18 Shraft wrote:
Should I start reading the Dresden Files or Heroes Die? I think both series look very interesting. Can't decide...
They are not really comparable IMO (with which I mean that it's not a case of which one is better than the other), but I'd start with Heroes Die because Dresden Files needs 2-3 books to really get started while you can decide pretty quickly whether or not you like Heroes Die.
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Reading 1984 by George Orwell atm
Great read so far :D Gatsby next!
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On February 18 2013 02:19 Sableyeah wrote:
Reading 1984 by George Orwell atm
Great read so far :D Gatsby next!
Gatsby is a masterpiece of technique. The dialogue in particular is beautiful. If you take nothing else away from it, take note of the style.
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Finished (big image):
+ Show Spoiler +
This will be next when it arrives via mail in a few days:
![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418RACjvjRL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
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On February 17 2013 18:53 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 18:25 sam!zdat wrote:
lol that's why you're all angsty
wtf you reading heidegger son
go read somehting fun I am actually using this book as my last chance to see if I am capable of philosophy or not.
Dude, don't do that. Trying to read Heideggar can be fun, at least it can be for me, but I would recommend not putting all your not-eggs in such a ridiculous basket. Not unless you speak German.......
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On February 18 2013 03:08 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 02:19 Sableyeah wrote:
Reading 1984 by George Orwell atm
Great read so far :D Gatsby next! Gatsby is a masterpiece of technique. The dialogue in particular is beautiful. If you take nothing else away from it, take note of the style.
Agreed it is such a fantastic book I have read it four times. I might pick it up again and give it another go in a year or so
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On February 18 2013 00:02 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 21:52 123Gurke wrote:On February 17 2013 21:14 Cambium wrote:Just read the wiki page on Ilium and Olympos, I think I'll read The Iliad & The Odyssey before You should definitely start with the Iliad. It is by far the more interesting book. I do not know about the quality and readability of English translations (assuming you will not read the original ancient Greek), but it is probably worth it to invest some research into the characteristics of different translations. Those texts are not very accessible for today's reader, so a good translation can make a huge difference. When in doubt I would opt for the more readable translation over ones that follow the original more strictly. It will be a tough read anyway (although it is definitely worth it), but you should not make your life harder than necessary. You can still read stricter translations later for the parts you really like. I think Robert Fagle is the more well-known version for English? Anyone want to comment on this?
I have the collin classics version, it's translated by Alexander Pope. That's all I know.
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On February 18 2013 00:02 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 21:52 123Gurke wrote:On February 17 2013 21:14 Cambium wrote:Just read the wiki page on Ilium and Olympos, I think I'll read The Iliad & The Odyssey before You should definitely start with the Iliad. It is by far the more interesting book. I do not know about the quality and readability of English translations (assuming you will not read the original ancient Greek), but it is probably worth it to invest some research into the characteristics of different translations. Those texts are not very accessible for today's reader, so a good translation can make a huge difference. When in doubt I would opt for the more readable translation over ones that follow the original more strictly. It will be a tough read anyway (although it is definitely worth it), but you should not make your life harder than necessary. You can still read stricter translations later for the parts you really like. I think Robert Fagles is the more well-known version for English? Anyone want to comment on this?
There are two English translators that are considered a step above all others. Those two are Robert Fagles and Richmond Lattimore. Fagles is great, in my opinion, and maintains the original poetry of the work while rendering it into comprehensible sentences, but he takes some licenses with it in order to make it read like a superb English epic. If you're studying the original language and want a word for word translation, however, go with Lattimore; his version is probably the best translation and the closest you can get to the original epic, but I don't think it's as accessible as Fagles'. Some people do like Lattimore better though. You might want to crawl to a bookstore and just read the first few pages of their translations to see which one you prefer.
Don't forget to read the Aeneid as well.
Another thing to keep in mind when choosing versions is to see how useful their notes are. I think Lattimore may only provide an index of names, while Fagles provides cultural/historical tidbits in his notes, which may be useful if you are not as familiar with the epic as others are.
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Finished:
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/44/TheActsOfKingArthur.jpg/220px-TheActsOfKingArthur.jpg)
That was fun, but definitely no must-read.
![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HF6lPKL7L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU03_.jpg)
OK, too.
Reading:
Mainly
![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jjlUzsDaL._SL160_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-dp,TopRight,12,-18_SH30_OU03_AA160_.jpg)
A German publisher is publishing new translations of the collected works of the Strugatzki brothers. So far there are five books with several novels each, but I guess they will continue publishing new books until they do not sell anymore. They have started with the more important novels, so I guess the quality will decrease over time. This colleciton is a definite recommendation for the German speakers in this thread.
I am in the second book now, rereading Roadside Picnic. Everyone should read this novel!
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On February 17 2013 18:53 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 18:25 sam!zdat wrote:
lol that's why you're all angsty
wtf you reading heidegger son
go read somehting fun I am actually using this book as my last chance to see if I am capable of philosophy or not.
Are you serious??
Jesus christ grasshopper, you are thinking about everything totally upside down. If you could read that book and have any idea what half the words meant, I would declare you the world's next great philosophical prodigy. I order you to (1) stop reading that book right now and (2) stop feeling sorry for yourself, you silly twit.
On February 17 2013 21:52 123Gurke wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 21:14 Cambium wrote:Just read the wiki page on Ilium and Olympos, I think I'll read The Iliad & The Odyssey before You should definitely start with the Iliad. It is by far the more interesting book.
Make sure you pay special attention to book II. There will be a test on all the ships.
On February 18 2013 04:22 babylon wrote:Don't forget to read the Aeneid as well.
It's boring in english
On February 18 2013 04:22 123Gurke wrote:
I am in the second book now, rereading Roadside Picnic. Everyone should read this novel!
I just read it
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On February 18 2013 04:35 sam!zdat wrote:
Make sure you pay special attention to book II. There will be a test on all the ships.
Oh yes, I had forgotten about that part... This is really the worst way of starting a book I can think of. Just skim over it and do not let it keep you from reading the rest. It will get better!
On February 18 2013 04:35 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 04:22 123Gurke wrote:
I am in the second book now, rereading Roadside Picnic. Everyone should read this novel! I just read it
So how did you like it?
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Well, if you don't read Aeneid (which, I agree, is boring as fuck), then you should at least read the Epic of Gilgamesh (trans. by Ben Foster or Andrew George). I think it's pretty obvious nowadays that Homer borrowed a fuck-ton of ancient Near Eastern motifs and patterns and inserted them into his poems, however he came by these ideas. (See: Martin West's East Face of Helicon.)
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On February 18 2013 04:44 123Gurke wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 04:35 sam!zdat wrote:On February 18 2013 04:22 123Gurke wrote:
I am in the second book now, rereading Roadside Picnic. Everyone should read this novel! I just read it So how did you like it?
It was great. I need to go reread Jameson's essay on it now. What Strugatski should I read next?
On February 18 2013 04:46 babylon wrote:
Well, if you don't read Aeneid (which, I agree, is boring as fuck)
No no, the aeneid is a beautiful work of genius, just not in ENGLISH 
On February 18 2013 04:46 babylon wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious nowadays that Homer borrowed a fuck-ton of ancient Near Eastern motifs and patterns and inserted them into his poems, however he came by these ideas. (See: Martin West's East Face of Helicon.)
see also: Herodotus, who explains how the greeks basically took all their culture from the egyptians
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The Epic of Gilgamesh is definitely something everyone with an interest in the beginnings of literature should read.
I've decided it is time to retry one of the strangest books I've come upon.
![[image loading]](http://www.bookfever.com/book_photos/49441.jpg)
Good ole' J R Vansant, we meet again.
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froggy, I'm afraid this passage puts Latour at least provisionally in my camp:
Postmodernism is a symptom, not a fresh solution. It lives under the modern Constitution, but it no longer believes in the guarantees the Constitution offers. It senses that something has gone awry in the modern critique, but it is not able to do anything but prolong that critique, though without believing in its foundations (Lyotard, 1979). Instead of moving on to empirical studies of the networks that give meaning to the work of purification it denounces, postmodernism rejects all empirical work as illusory and deceptively scientistic (Baudrillard, 1992). Disappointed rationalists, its adepts indeed sense that modernism is done for, but they continue to accept its way of dividing up time; thus they can divide up eras only in terms of successive revolutions. They feel that they come 'after' the moderns, but with the disagreeable sentiment that there is no more 'after.' 'No future': this is the slogan added to the moderns' motto 'No past.' What remains? Disconnected instants and groundless denunciations, since the postmoderns no longer believe in the reasons that would allow them to denounce and to become indignant.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On February 18 2013 04:22 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 00:02 Cambium wrote:On February 17 2013 21:52 123Gurke wrote:On February 17 2013 21:14 Cambium wrote:Just read the wiki page on Ilium and Olympos, I think I'll read The Iliad & The Odyssey before You should definitely start with the Iliad. It is by far the more interesting book. I do not know about the quality and readability of English translations (assuming you will not read the original ancient Greek), but it is probably worth it to invest some research into the characteristics of different translations. Those texts are not very accessible for today's reader, so a good translation can make a huge difference. When in doubt I would opt for the more readable translation over ones that follow the original more strictly. It will be a tough read anyway (although it is definitely worth it), but you should not make your life harder than necessary. You can still read stricter translations later for the parts you really like. I think Robert Fagles is the more well-known version for English? Anyone want to comment on this? There are two English translators that are considered a step above all others. Those two are Robert Fagles and Richmond Lattimore. Fagles is great, in my opinion, and maintains the original poetry of the work while rendering it into comprehensible sentences, but he takes some licenses with it in order to make it read like a superb English epic. If you're studying the original language and want a word for word translation, however, go with Lattimore; his version is probably the best translation and the closest you can get to the original epic, but I don't think it's as accessible as Fagles'. Some people do like Lattimore better though. You might want to crawl to a bookstore and just read the first few pages of their translations to see which one you prefer. Don't forget to read the Aeneid as well. Another thing to keep in mind when choosing versions is to see how useful their notes are. I think Lattimore may only provide an index of names, while Fagles provides cultural/historical tidbits in his notes, which may be useful if you are not as familiar with the epic as others are.
No love for Fitzgerald?
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On February 18 2013 04:48 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 04:46 babylon wrote:
Well, if you don't read Aeneid (which, I agree, is boring as fuck) No no, the aeneid is a beautiful work of genius, just not in ENGLISH
I do hate Latin. I can't sustain an interest in any ancient work written in Classical Latin. (Exception are English translations, of course.)
On February 18 2013 04:48 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 04:46 babylon wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious nowadays that Homer borrowed a fuck-ton of ancient Near Eastern motifs and patterns and inserted them into his poems, however he came by these ideas. (See: Martin West's East Face of Helicon.) see also: Herodotus, who explains how the greeks basically took all their culture from the egyptians
His gold-digging ants were quite brilliant.
You're thinking way too late though. I'm talking pre-Achaemenid. (@ farv) There were so many versions of Gilgamesh, also, and before Gilgamesh, you had stories of Lugalbanda and Enmerkar, so you can't even really call Gilgamesh the first piece of "literature" either (which in any cases is a completely modern generic construction, I believe hymns and prayers also count as literature in the ANE context). I think it's a bit sad how people seem to only know about the Epic of Gilgamesh and don't really look further back. Or ... well, I don't think many people know about "When on high" either when it's arguably one of the greatest literary texts to come out of Mesopotamia. Maybe if I erroneously call it "the Babylonian Creation Myth" it'll ring more bells, and people will say, "Aha! Tiamat! That's where she comes from!"
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EPT![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E8yoOiFoL._SL500_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-big,TopRight,35,-73_OU02_.jpg){kind=icon}
