EPTStar Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 157
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
Other than that, really enjoyable. | ||
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OneWinged
54 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule19237 Posts
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
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Falling
Canada11593 Posts
It was mentioned on this forum as part of a discussion on whether or not fan service was "minimal" in the movie. This has nothing to do with "tunnel vision" and everything to do with recognizing fan service for what it is. If I see shameless advertising in a movie (*cough* Michael Bay *cough*), I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to try to come up with reasons I'm getting brands shoved into my face, when the only concern of the director himself was to more or less attempt to not make it seem like too much of an advertisement. What is the difference, in your opinion, between fan service and continuity? And is fan service inherently bad? One of the tricky things with fan service is it is guessing at authorial intention: "X is in the film for Y reason." Whereas it could be for Y reason, plus a host of other reasons or Y reason may not have entered the mind of the creator at all. But even if we correctly guess the origins of why something exists in a story, have we actually identified whether that something is good or bad? I'd suggest speculating on origins is one step removed from identifying what makes it good or bad. Was it fan service or continuity to include any of the following: Han, Leia, Chewie, Luke, R2D2, C3PO, the Millennium Falcon, Admiral Ackbar, Nien Nunb, Darth Vader's helmet, Star Destroyers, X-wings, TIE Fighters, or Stormtroopers? If including the Millennium Falcon is allowable continuity, then is showing that the Falcon continues to work as it did previously continuity or fan service? (Engine troubles, hidden hatches, chess board, wildly swinging seats for the gun turrets, looks like garbage from the outside, etc.) | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On December 31 2015 01:26 Darpa wrote: Really liked this movie, only thing I would have asked for was a little bit of explanation on what was going on with the new republic and the first order before they got destroyed, had to read online what the fuck was going on there. Other than that, really enjoyable. My interpretation, didn't read anything online: + Show Spoiler + The Empire is still pretty strong even after the Emperor and Death Star II die. However, it's split into rival factions, the most powerful of which is the First Order. The Republic was an attempt by the rebels to make their own government, but it was weak and the politicians didn't want to start fighting ex-Imperial factions, so they funded the Resistance (basically the old rebels) instead. The First Order is the most powerful government in the galaxy and easily destroyed the Republic, but got their nose bloodied by the Resistance. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:58 Falling wrote: What is the difference, in your opinion, between fan service and continuity? And is fan service inherently bad? One of the tricky things with fan service is it is guessing at authorial intention: "X is in the film for Y reason." Whereas it could be for Y reason, plus a host of other reasons or Y reason may not have entered the mind of the creator at all. But even if we correctly guess the origins of why something exists in a story, have we actually identified whether that something is good or bad? I'd suggest speculating on origins is one step removed from identifying what makes it good or bad. Was it fan service or continuity to include any of the following: Han, Leia, Chewie, Luke, R2D2, C3PO, the Millennium Falcon, Admiral Ackbar, Nien Nunb, Darth Vader's helmet, Star Destroyers, X-wings, TIE Fighters, or Stormtroopers? If including the Millennium Falcon is allowable continuity, then is showing that the Falcon continues to work as it did previously continuity or fan service? (Engine troubles, hidden hatches, chess board, wildly swinging seats for the gun turrets, looks like garbage from the outside, etc.) All that falls under continuity and I haven't heard any complaints about that stuff other then the weird argument about the significance of the chess board (which by the way has the piece that Chewie lost to R2D2 taking revenge against R2D2s piece). Its Star Wars. Those are all integral to it. Not having that stuff would be like Lord of The Rings not having Orcs in Return of The King. Fan service is making the Falcon is garbage joke, the 12 parsec joke, the cantina banner and several other minor references. That was minimal and well done IMO. The problem is the main plot is basically A New Hope 2.0. Not sure that qualifies as fan service. More like plagiarism. | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
Act 1: good/fun Act 2: seriously another death star????????????????? Act 3: BAD overall, a generic modern blockbuster that does not hold up on its own. hopefully the next two salvage it. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On December 31 2015 02:58 Falling wrote: What is the difference, in your opinion, between fan service and continuity? And is fan service inherently bad? One of the tricky things with fan service is it is guessing at authorial intention: "X is in the film for Y reason." Whereas it could be for Y reason, plus a host of other reasons or Y reason may not have entered the mind of the creator at all. But even if we correctly guess the origins of why something exists in a story, have we actually identified whether that something is good or bad? I'd suggest speculating on origins is one step removed from identifying what makes it good or bad. Was it fan service or continuity to include any of the following: Han, Leia, Chewie, Luke, R2D2, C3PO, the Millennium Falcon, Admiral Ackbar, Nien Nunb, Darth Vader's helmet, Star Destroyers, X-wings, TIE Fighters, or Stormtroopers? If including the Millennium Falcon is allowable continuity, then is showing that the Falcon continues to work as it did previously continuity or fan service? (Engine troubles, hidden hatches, chess board, wildly swinging seats for the gun turrets, looks like garbage from the outside, etc.) Continuity is the use of characters, objects, settings and plot elements in a manner that is internally consistent and plot-relevant. Fan service is the gratuitous appearance of objects/elements that do not serve the plot/do not help with the consistency of the universe, but instead explicitly serve to please the fans, possibly by referencing other media (especially in the same series). The dejarik board was included as a nod to the ANH scene, for the fans. It is certainly not needed to help the viewer understand that they are in the actual Millenium Falcon. It is fan service. edit: I'm honestly surprised some people are fighting tooth and nail against this simple characterization. It's like nothing whatsoever that sounds like criticism can be allowed, even about the smallest of things. | ||
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zf
231 Posts
On December 31 2015 10:12 kwizach wrote:I'm honestly surprised some people are fighting tooth and nail against this simple characterization. It's like nothing whatsoever that sounds like criticism can be allowed, even about the smallest of things. People are "fighting" the term "fan service" because it's an unhelpful characterization. It's simultaneously over- and under-inclusive. It relies on a concept of authorial intent that many find silly to begin with. And it assumes that we'll agree over which elements are "gratuitous" and which aren't. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Phasma deactivating the shield generator just for free is the only plot hole I really cared about, but it's no worse than some of the other stupid flaws in the OT that we choose not to care about. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
I would have went into the movie with different expectations if someone told me it was a complete remake of episode 4. But overall still enjoyable and I hope episode 8 will be better. | ||
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Yurie
12147 Posts
On December 31 2015 08:58 trifecta wrote: my 2c: Act 1: good/fun Act 2: seriously another death star????????????????? Act 3: BAD overall, a generic modern blockbuster that does not hold up on its own. hopefully the next two salvage it. I agree with your opinion. On top of this I thought Act 1 expanded would have made a good movie on its own merits. If you have more and smaller factions it doesn't need death stars, nobody can afford them. There are still large fleets and armies, politics and back stabbing. Would be plenty of room for tying up a plot line in two more movies if it wasn't planet destroying empires from the other side of the galaxy doing it. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On December 31 2015 13:45 zf wrote: People are "fighting" the term "fan service" because it's an unhelpful characterization. It's simultaneously over- and under-inclusive. It relies on a concept of authorial intent that many find silly to begin with. And it assumes that we'll agree over which elements are "gratuitous" and which aren't. It's helpful if you want to know why the dejarik game is shown. We know what the authorial intent was: "please the fans", in this case by adding a reference to ANH. It's about as obvious as the intent behind the subtle inclusion of Cheerios in Days of our lives. Or would calling that "product placement" be "unhelpful" as well? The short appearance of the board game was gratuitous because it played no role whatsoever with regards to the plot, the characters, the coherence of the SW universe, you name it. It only served as a nod to ANH for the fans. I don't know why we're even still debating something as obvious as this. It's not even a big deal by itself, but let's not be hypocrite about what it is. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
Some people will call this clever fan service, others call it "rhyming". Personally, I found it to be very lazy writing, and very tepid in its exploring the subject matter. Of course the biggest thing about this was that this episode is all about setup for 8+9, so some of my complaints may be incomplete, but as of right now? also, this may have been linked before but this article on The Verge has some good thoughts. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
it was good in that I had a nice nostalgia trip and remembering great moments I forgot. overall it was enjoyable. but at the same time I was left wanting more and the story was a bit weak. so yeah I don't regret going to the theaters to watch it but wouldn't watch it again. | ||
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zf
231 Posts
On January 01 2016 01:56 kwizach wrote:Or would calling that "product placement" be "unhelpful" as well? Maybe. A New Critic might think so! On January 01 2016 01:56 kwizach wrote:The short appearance of the board game was gratuitous because it played no role whatsoever with regards to the plot, the characters, the coherence of the SW universe, you name it. It only served as a nod to ANH for the fans. I don't know why we're even still debating something as obvious as this. It's not even a big deal by itself, but let's not be hypocrite about what it is. There's not much to say here, except that I disagree. Do I see why someone might think that it was gratuitous? Sure. Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. And happy birthday! | ||
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