On December 30 2015 05:44 xDaunt wrote: I had some problems with the new movie after first seeing it (some plot holes, lack of proper context for big events, etc), but I liked it a lot more after seeing it again. Pretty much all of my friends who have seen it twice have said the same thing. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between first and subsequent viewings, but this is a movie that should hold up well.
I'm guessing a lot of people felt their enjoyment undermined by thinking "What the fuck is X, Y, Z?" and then read up on it online and, armed with the missing context the film doesn't provide, the film itself is more enjoyable.
this sucks because there's a better way to consume media in the first place. it's silly how many people who are apparently so enthusiastic about star wars are so quick to turn bitter when it didn't play out exactly the way they pictured it in their head. when met with a gap, patience and imagination are the best things to turn to, not self-righteous outrage that the filmmakers messed up. a lot of the things people complain about in this very thread should be embarrassing in retrospect to them because it's their own poor job of viewing the movie that led to their dissatisfaction. those people are easy to criticize. there are others who have objections that cannot be concretely refuted by the movie itself. if people choose to be upset about a bad possibility, rather than use their imagination and/or stay hopeful for some awesome possibilities, then i don't think random people on the internet owe them their time to hear them vent. so much negativity and hardly any of it concrete. and even something that is possibly concrete, like the stupid board game on the falcon, is given a twisted spin ("fan service") when a straight interpretation of it (one of those trivial background details that serve the purpose of making the world seem more rich and alive) can be pretty positive.
anyway, i really enjoyed it, and i honestly think some people are sabotaging themselves and preventing themselves from enjoying things more. get out of your own head and really get into the movie (or whatever other media you consume) and when something is jarring, keep an open mind and find positive ways to process it. dont just jump to thinking that you've found a legit criticism that you can go tell all your friends and strangers on the internet and fuel your bitterness/outrage. always assume you're the dumb one who just needs to learn more to understand it and enjoy it, and when that ends in disappointment anyway (transformers films? idk), then oh well, i guess that thing just isnt for you.
ps: who isn't excited by rian johnson? if you weren't a good viewer for TFA but you know you're gonna see episode 8 anyway, you've got a while to figure it out, because i think rian johnson's movie will be worth watching with an open mind.
On December 30 2015 05:44 xDaunt wrote: I had some problems with the new movie after first seeing it (some plot holes, lack of proper context for big events, etc), but I liked it a lot more after seeing it again. Pretty much all of my friends who have seen it twice have said the same thing. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between first and subsequent viewings, but this is a movie that should hold up well.
I'm guessing a lot of people felt their enjoyment undermined by thinking "What the fuck is X, Y, Z?" and then read up on it online and, armed with the missing context the film doesn't provide, the film itself is more enjoyable.
this sucks because there's a better way to consume media in the first place. it's silly how many people who are apparently so enthusiastic about star wars are so quick to turn bitter when it didn't play out exactly the way they pictured it in their head. when met with a gap, patience and imagination are the best things to turn to, not self-righteous outrage that the filmmakers messed up. a lot of the things people complain about in this very thread should be embarrassing in retrospect to them because it's their own poor job of viewing the movie that led to their dissatisfaction. those people are easy to criticize. there are others who have objections that cannot be concretely refuted by the movie itself. if people choose to be upset about a bad possibility, rather than use their imagination and/or stay hopeful for some awesome possibilities, then i don't think random people on the internet owe them their time to hear them vent. so much negativity and hardly any of it concrete. and even something that is possibly concrete, like the stupid board game on the falcon, is given a twisted spin ("fan service") when a straight interpretation of it (one of those trivial background details that serve the purpose of making the world seem more rich and alive) can be pretty positive.
anyway, i really enjoyed it, and i honestly think some people are sabotaging themselves and preventing themselves from enjoying things more. get out of your own head and really get into the movie (or whatever other media you consume) and when something is jarring, keep an open mind and find positive ways to process it. dont just jump to thinking that you've found a legit criticism that you can go tell all your friends and strangers on the internet and fuel your bitterness/outrage. always assume you're the dumb one who just needs to learn more to understand it and enjoy it, and when that ends in disappointment anyway (transformers films? idk), then oh well, i guess that thing just isnt for you.
ps: who isn't excited by rian johnson? if you weren't a good viewer for TFA but you know you're gonna see episode 8 anyway, you've got a while to figure it out, because i think rian johnson's movie will be worth watching with an open mind.
For those who don't know, he directed wrote and directed Brick and Looper. Brick was a low budget Indy film that is still one of my all time favorites. And it's sound track is amazing. He is just good at movies and it's nice to see him getting his big shot.
Looper was a really good movie (despite me being quite drunk and sleepy while watching it, so you know its good to have held my attention). It had a lot of emotional and dramatic oomph, so seems like Episode VIII has a lot of potential.
Another problem with Episode XIII: it seemed... emotionally shallow. Rey was pretty cool, I liked her. Finn was funny. I was bummed (a bit) when Poe "died". I felt nothing for the billions who died when the Republic got lasered. However, I was sad when Han died. For an action movie, TFA was fine; however, its being held to a higher standard (we have to acknowledge that)-- it's goddamn Star Wars. We want emotions and to care for these characters and this universe. The only real emotion was nostalgia. The rest of my feelings for the movie could fit in a tablespoon. I'm not asking for an Oscar winner, but I want something I can connect to.
Yeah, so hopefully Rian Johnson can do that. The general story arc is for the second movie to get more emotional and all that, so there's that anyways.
it's silly how many people who are apparently so enthusiastic about star wars are so quick to turn bitter when it didn't play out exactly the way they pictured it in their head.
Exactly this lol. Some people just don't want to accept that 90% of people enjoyed the movie which they did not enjoy.
We have scenes were droids are cut in half with no apparent resistance. Hands of flesh as well. We have them cut through re-enforced doors. As far as I know there is no reason to push your lightsaber through your opponent.
actually when they cut think reinforced doors there is/was resistance, I remember they have that in Ep1. and also in Ep3 when Anakin was cutting the ceiling of the elevator and it took some time not just by an easy circular stroke. Droids obviously have a different metal material AND slim/narrow bodies than the doors -.-
On December 30 2015 10:20 NonY wrote: ps: who isn't excited by rian johnson? if you weren't a good viewer for TFA but you know you're gonna see episode 8 anyway, you've got a while to figure it out, because i think rian johnson's movie will be worth watching with an open mind.
Was Looper bad or something? I never saw it, but all of Rian's Breaking Bad episodes were fantastic imo.
On December 30 2015 11:44 ticklishmusic wrote: Looper was a really good movie (despite me being quite drunk and sleepy while watching it, so you know its good to have held my attention). It had a lot of emotional and dramatic oomph, so seems like Episode VIII has a lot of potential.
Another problem with Episode XIII: it seemed... emotionally shallow. Rey was pretty cool, I liked her. Finn was funny. I was bummed (a bit) when Poe "died". I felt nothing for the billions who died when the Republic got lasered. However, I was sad when Han died. For an action movie, TFA was fine; however, its being held to a higher standard (we have to acknowledge that)-- it's goddamn Star Wars. We want emotions and to care for these characters and this universe. The only real emotion was nostalgia. The rest of my feelings for the movie could fit in a tablespoon. I'm not asking for an Oscar winner, but I want something I can connect to.
Yeah, so hopefully Rian Johnson can do that. The general story arc is for the second movie to get more emotional and all that, so there's that anyways.
I agree that it wasn't dependent on the "feels," but it is only the first movie out of a new trilogy. I haven't watched epsidoe 4 in a long time so I can't answer this, but were the emotional connections airtight for you after the first of that trilogy?
Idk, I felt quite connected to Rey as a character-- less so Finn. We saw Rey by herself a lot more, which helped. I must admit that I found + Show Spoiler +
Han's death
surprisingly not-that-sad, perhaps because some asshole on cs:go spoiled it for me during a MM. But even so, it didn't feel as sad as it should, given who and what happened.
So I kind of agree with you, but people tend to put on rose colored glasses when discussing TFA compared to the first trilogy, imo.
On December 30 2015 08:53 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Many one star reviews does mean that the movie or game has at least one glaring flaw that alienates the fanbase, thats why I'm curious. Take for example Mass Effect 3, only the ending caused many people to auto 1 it. Maybe the story is similar to ep4, maybe + Show Spoiler +
On December 30 2015 15:16 emc wrote: can't wait to see the rouge one teaser, anyone think it will drop next month?
I hope so. The teaser image with the actors looks great.
I saw a leaked teaser a while ago, which was just the camera panning up from a forest (Yavin IV?) up to the horizon with the Death Star in the distance.
On December 30 2015 05:44 xDaunt wrote: I had some problems with the new movie after first seeing it (some plot holes, lack of proper context for big events, etc), but I liked it a lot more after seeing it again. Pretty much all of my friends who have seen it twice have said the same thing. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between first and subsequent viewings, but this is a movie that should hold up well.
We come into it with our own set of expectations of what it should be like, and they simply aren't going to happen. Once you know what you are expecting, you can watch it and appreciate it for what it is. And the movie did very well indeed at telling the story it meant to tell.
On December 30 2015 05:44 xDaunt wrote: I had some problems with the new movie after first seeing it (some plot holes, lack of proper context for big events, etc), but I liked it a lot more after seeing it again. Pretty much all of my friends who have seen it twice have said the same thing. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between first and subsequent viewings, but this is a movie that should hold up well.
I'm guessing a lot of people felt their enjoyment undermined by thinking "What the fuck is X, Y, Z?" and then read up on it online and, armed with the missing context the film doesn't provide, the film itself is more enjoyable.
[...] so much negativity and hardly any of it concrete. and even something that is possibly concrete, like the stupid board game on the falcon, is given a twisted spin ("fan service") when a straight interpretation of it (one of those trivial background details that serve the purpose of making the world seem more rich and alive) can be pretty positive.[...]
Putting aside your brilliant argument to never criticize flaws in movies because of... reasons, I'd like to start by pointing out that plenty of very concrete flaws in TFA have been underlined throughout this thread. Also, the dejarik game on the falcon served that exact positive purpose in the original movie it appeared in, namely ANH (in fact, it even contributed to character development). In TFA, however, it's unambiguously included to serve as fan service. If you enjoy gulping whatever mindless entertainment is being served to you with no critical thinking whatsoever I'm happy for you, but my standards are a bit higher than that, especially as a cinephile and a fan of the Star Wars universe.
On December 30 2015 21:19 shin_toss wrote: Who will direct Rogue One?
Gareth Edwards. Previously directed that Godzilla(2014) and some documentaries on space travel. He seems to know his way around a big budget movie. The directing was not the problem with that Godzilla movie.
On December 30 2015 10:20 NonY wrote: anyway, i really enjoyed it, and i honestly think some people are sabotaging themselves and preventing themselves from enjoying things more. get out of your own head and really get into the movie (or whatever other media you consume) and when something is jarring, keep an open mind and find positive ways to process it. dont just jump to thinking that you've found a legit criticism that you can go tell all your friends and strangers on the internet and fuel your bitterness/outrage. always assume you're the dumb one who just needs to learn more to understand it and enjoy it, and when that ends in disappointment anyway (transformers films? idk), then oh well, i guess that thing just isnt for you.
So you blame a person itself for like not liking the movie? That's a lazy argument. Of course some people just enjoy hating and you can't really discuss with them. But opinions like yours also kill any kind of discussion. Legitimate criticism should always be allowed and alot of points made in this thread are legit.
When we are being critical about TFA, let's not forget we are comparing it with stuff like Age of Ultron, Abram's Star Trek, Transformers, Fast & Furious, Wolverine, Jurassic world.
Movies that are complete trash and near unwatchable..
And let's not forget old movies are completely flawed in some respects when held against modern standards. Star Trek and Star Wars movies aren't very good. Especially the Star Trek movies are all really bad, because it has to stand up to the much higher standards of the series (especially TNG and DS9). And Return of the Jedi is a pretty mediocre movies. You think people were nitpicking plot holes on the internet back then? No. A movie today should be plot hole-free, period. I am just amazed that this new TFA doesn't suffer from completely 2dimensional characters an d awful dialogue in a way no human has talked to someone else ever, as the Star Trek reboot had.
That TFA reuses the plot from ANH and RotJ and Star Trek 11/2009 redoes Nemesis, which redid First Contact, which redid Generations. And Nemisis also redid Wrath of Khan.
Can we get away from evil guy that has a doomsday weapon that wants to destroy everything for no good reason aka revenge aka spite already? Look at the most evil people in the real world. Real evil is a lot more sinister than fictional evil. And in the real world, the more power you have, the harder it is to not be a bad guy/do wrong things. Yet in fiction, even the most powerful evil guys are evil in an unconvincing way.
At least TFA had less shaky camera syndrome and out-of-frame face closeups. Or maybe I got used to it.
Most of the movies are made for 16-18 year olds that want to go out to the movies. There isn't much money to be made from a more sophisticated young audience. Either, those are old people that don't go to movies period. Or, a sophisticated young crowd doesn't really exist anymore.
And it doesn't seem like bad movies get punished by bad box office ratings. In fact, I wonder if the free market is really at play here. You don't know if the movie is good or not until you have seen it. I have seen all 3 Hobbit movies and all were terrible. I just wanted to see them because they were Tolkien movies. Even if they were even worse, I'd have seen them.
Ooh btw, can they get an astronomer to do real star distribution for the new opening crawl. I loved the openings, especially that all the games also copied the pattern (I think one of them broke the pattern and didn't pan to a ship in space). But it's 2015 now. No excuse not to have realistic stars.
In fact that reminds me of this Neil Tyson deGrasse anecdote about the Titanic. He problem made it up, like all good stories are, but alas. He claims he told Cameron the sky at the end of the movie was wrong. Apparently, it was a fictional sky and on top of that, it was a mirror image left and right.
Cameron said: "The Titanic grossed 2 billion worldwide. Imagine how much more it would have made if I had gotten the sky right." He is right. It don't matter. Cash is what matters.
On December 30 2015 10:20 NonY wrote: anyway, i really enjoyed it, and i honestly think some people are sabotaging themselves and preventing themselves from enjoying things more. get out of your own head and really get into the movie (or whatever other media you consume) and when something is jarring, keep an open mind and find positive ways to process it. dont just jump to thinking that you've found a legit criticism that you can go tell all your friends and strangers on the internet and fuel your bitterness/outrage. always assume you're the dumb one who just needs to learn more to understand it and enjoy it, and when that ends in disappointment anyway (transformers films? idk), then oh well, i guess that thing just isnt for you.
So you blame a person itself for like not liking the movie? That's a lazy argument. Of course some people just enjoy hating and you can't really discuss with them. But opinions like yours also kill any kind of discussion. Legitimate criticism should always be allowed and alot of points made in this thread are legit.
Its all subjective at the end of the day, including the "legitimate criticism,". Some aspects that bother some people won't bother others. And Nony is giving his opinion on the tone of those criticisms and how they are presented. There is nothing discussion killing about his statement.
On December 30 2015 10:20 NonY wrote: anyway, i really enjoyed it, and i honestly think some people are sabotaging themselves and preventing themselves from enjoying things more. get out of your own head and really get into the movie (or whatever other media you consume) and when something is jarring, keep an open mind and find positive ways to process it. dont just jump to thinking that you've found a legit criticism that you can go tell all your friends and strangers on the internet and fuel your bitterness/outrage. always assume you're the dumb one who just needs to learn more to understand it and enjoy it, and when that ends in disappointment anyway (transformers films? idk), then oh well, i guess that thing just isnt for you.
So you blame a person itself for like not liking the movie? That's a lazy argument. Of course some people just enjoy hating and you can't really discuss with them. But opinions like yours also kill any kind of discussion. Legitimate criticism should always be allowed and alot of points made in this thread are legit.
On December 30 2015 05:44 xDaunt wrote: I had some problems with the new movie after first seeing it (some plot holes, lack of proper context for big events, etc), but I liked it a lot more after seeing it again. Pretty much all of my friends who have seen it twice have said the same thing. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between first and subsequent viewings, but this is a movie that should hold up well.
I'm guessing a lot of people felt their enjoyment undermined by thinking "What the fuck is X, Y, Z?" and then read up on it online and, armed with the missing context the film doesn't provide, the film itself is more enjoyable.
[...] so much negativity and hardly any of it concrete. and even something that is possibly concrete, like the stupid board game on the falcon, is given a twisted spin ("fan service") when a straight interpretation of it (one of those trivial background details that serve the purpose of making the world seem more rich and alive) can be pretty positive.[...]
Putting aside your brilliant argument to never criticize flaws in movies because of... reasons, I'd like to start by pointing out that plenty of very concrete flaws in TFA have been underlined throughout this thread. Also, the dejarik game on the falcon served that exact positive purpose in the original movie it appeared in, namely ANH (in fact, it even contributed to character development). In TFA, however, it's unambiguously included to serve as fan service. If you enjoy gulping whatever mindless entertainment is being served to you with no critical thinking whatsoever I'm happy for you, but my standards are a bit higher than that, especially as a cinephile and a fan of the Star Wars universe.
you guys are both still missing the point. these very responses are exactly the kind of misbehavior im discouraging. read things and think "what can i learn from it?" and if you can't learn anything from it, either because you already know it or because it's vacuous, then forget about it. similarly, approach all external things in life as "what can i get out of it?" with a similarly productive attitude. this way you're more likely to think of all the things that it could mean and you're more likely to benefit from one of them. instead, you both found something to object to and started writing about that.
i never said not to analyze or criticize. i was objecting to pure negativity. you're objecting to something i never even wrote. if someone did a full analysis of something and kept a neutral tone, then that's fine criticism. want to talk about the board game and call it fan service? then also talk about the other purposes it serves. it can't possibly be pure fan service because not everyone is a fan (or a fan enough to know or remember it). i noticed too many people saying "i didnt like X because Y" when Y was one thing among many relevant to X's existence, especially when it seemed pretty clear the author is tunnel-visioning Y and is probably ignorant of other things. criticism is fine when it's humble and neutral and, in the end, still inquisitive. say Y but say everything else and write in a tone that makes it clear that you want to hear other things about X as well.
So you blame a person itself for like not liking the movie? That's a lazy argument.
it's not even an argument. it's an observation and it's a true one. these people do exist. people who could actually benefit from advice on how to consume media to better enjoy it and understand it. i feel like this is not only obviously true for some of the most casual viewers, who miss obvious and essential things and therefore sabotage themselves, but isn't it also the reason people delve as deep as possible into understanding a movie? it doesn't kill discussion; it encourages it with a more positive goal. isn't there any movie that you enjoyed that you think you would've enjoyed less if you knew less about movies? you read about and discuss movies yourself -- has this effort never benefited you as a viewer? i feel like it's impossible that your own existence doesn't betray your dismissal of what i wrote.
On December 30 2015 10:20 NonY wrote: anyway, i really enjoyed it, and i honestly think some people are sabotaging themselves and preventing themselves from enjoying things more. get out of your own head and really get into the movie (or whatever other media you consume) and when something is jarring, keep an open mind and find positive ways to process it. dont just jump to thinking that you've found a legit criticism that you can go tell all your friends and strangers on the internet and fuel your bitterness/outrage. always assume you're the dumb one who just needs to learn more to understand it and enjoy it, and when that ends in disappointment anyway (transformers films? idk), then oh well, i guess that thing just isnt for you.
So you blame a person itself for like not liking the movie? That's a lazy argument. Of course some people just enjoy hating and you can't really discuss with them. But opinions like yours also kill any kind of discussion. Legitimate criticism should always be allowed and alot of points made in this thread are legit.
On December 30 2015 05:44 xDaunt wrote: I had some problems with the new movie after first seeing it (some plot holes, lack of proper context for big events, etc), but I liked it a lot more after seeing it again. Pretty much all of my friends who have seen it twice have said the same thing. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between first and subsequent viewings, but this is a movie that should hold up well.
I'm guessing a lot of people felt their enjoyment undermined by thinking "What the fuck is X, Y, Z?" and then read up on it online and, armed with the missing context the film doesn't provide, the film itself is more enjoyable.
[...] so much negativity and hardly any of it concrete. and even something that is possibly concrete, like the stupid board game on the falcon, is given a twisted spin ("fan service") when a straight interpretation of it (one of those trivial background details that serve the purpose of making the world seem more rich and alive) can be pretty positive.[...]
Putting aside your brilliant argument to never criticize flaws in movies because of... reasons, I'd like to start by pointing out that plenty of very concrete flaws in TFA have been underlined throughout this thread. Also, the dejarik game on the falcon served that exact positive purpose in the original movie it appeared in, namely ANH (in fact, it even contributed to character development). In TFA, however, it's unambiguously included to serve as fan service. If you enjoy gulping whatever mindless entertainment is being served to you with no critical thinking whatsoever I'm happy for you, but my standards are a bit higher than that, especially as a cinephile and a fan of the Star Wars universe.
you guys are both still missing the point. these very responses are exactly the kind of misbehavior im discouraging. read things and think "what can i learn from it?" and if you can't learn anything from it, either because you already know it or because it's vacuous, then forget about it. similarly, approach all external things in life as "what can i get out of it?" with a similarly productive attitude. this way you're more likely to think of all the things that it could mean and you're more likely to benefit from one of them. instead, you both found something to object to and started writing about that.
As opposed to you objecting to, and writing about, our "misbehavior"? I find your approach to "external things in life" to be extremely vacuous and lazy, and I'm happy I do not live my life that way. Standing up for the values and positions I consider important (while exercising critical thinking, of course), and criticizing and acting against what goes against them, is an important part of my approach to life (and politics in particular).
On December 31 2015 00:04 NonY wrote: i never said not to analyze or criticize. i was objecting to pure negativity. you're objecting to something i never even wrote. if someone did a full analysis of something and kept a neutral tone, then that's fine criticism. want to talk about the board game and call it fan service? then also talk about the other purposes it serves. it can't possibly be pure fan service because not everyone is a fan (or a fan enough to know or remember it). i noticed too many people saying "i didnt like X because Y" when Y was one thing among many relevant to X's existence, especially when it seemed pretty clear the author is tunnel-visioning Y and is probably ignorant of other things. criticism is fine when it's humble and neutral and, in the end, still inquisitive. say Y but say everything else and write in a tone that makes it clear that you want to hear other things about X as well.
Actually, you weren't only objecting to pure negativity, but instead pretty heavily leaned towards objecting to the general voicing of criticism. With regards to "keeping a neutral tone", what matters isn't the tone but the content of the criticism. I see no reason for someone who's disappointed in a movie because of legitimate flaws in it to have to adopt a "neutral tone" for his points to be considered as valid or worthy of attention (I'm obviously not talking about the baseless bashing of a movie) -- just like anyone who has liked a movie doesn't have to adopt a neutral tone to defend his positive experience and his arguments against the criticism. With regards to the board game, its primary (and I would argue sole) purpose was to be a wink to the people who enjoyed ANH. It was mentioned on this forum as part of a discussion on whether or not fan service was "minimal" in the movie. This has nothing to do with "tunnel vision" and everything to do with recognizing fan service for what it is. If I see shameless advertising in a movie (*cough* Michael Bay *cough*), I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to try to come up with reasons I'm getting brands shoved into my face, when the only concern of the director himself was to more or less attempt to not make it seem like too much of an advertisement.
Do wonder if Captain Phasma the biggest vase in all SW, cool name, sexy voice, shiny armor, 1% relevant to the whole movie. Should really make her to beat the shit out of Fin (rather than some random storm trooper), missed opportunity.
EPT
