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I never said females can't stand up to males.
I specifically said I am happy there is a female that isn't just there to be rescued or be the romantic interest to the male lead.
Don't think it is bad influence. Just pointing out there is a reason why the dynamics of all societies have mostly males fighting. Males kill each other to capture or defend females. Our evolutionary role is to reproduce and we have a certain mating ritual and sexual selection criteria.
War is an extension from this. Politics or religion are just layers or excuses on top of this.
We don't put males into male prostitute roles to empower males, do we? So why is having females in combat roles empowering?
Why not have a female Jedi that doesn't fight but still wins the day? Let's face it. We need to empower a female by making her do male things. Is that empowering?
It's not even about physical ability. The top percent females do better than the bottom percent males, though it cannot be underestimated what the male advantage in athletics or combat is. If having no X gene wouldn't be considered a genetic disability when it comes to athletics, allowing for a separate class, I probably wouldn't be able to name a female professional athlete.
As to why you talk about Phasma, how is she even empowering even if you think having woman be badass killers is empowering? I can see it for Brianne or for Rey, but this odd stormtrooper with a female voice in an absurd suit?
Doubt there is a little girl anywhere on the planet that wants to play with a toy figure where you can see his/her/it's face. If you just give her that toy, she will never know the person inside is female.
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She seen the movie so she would know. Not that hard to see the comparison to Boba Fett. Boba Fett didn't do anything really badass and he had a comical death, but he was cool. That's it. Then the prequels and the EU exapnded on him, but he was already a fan-favorite. If we as little boys could swoon over Boba Fett just because he had an epic suite and in our mind he was totally the best bounty hunter ever, why couldn't it happen with Cpt. Phasma and little girls? No, she will never be as iconic as Boba Fett, unless they do pump her up in Ep VIII, but she does just fine as the female equilavent of Boba Fett's cool and mysterious vibe. Not everything has to be a moral lesson or guidance, like Luke or Rey. Sometimes being cool is more than enough.
Females in combat roles is empowering, since it is always associated with males. Giving room for females in the army is closing the gap, destroying myths. Most of the stormtroopers we heard were still males; aside from Phasma, there were one more female stormtrooper, so once again, statistically speaking males still dominated the stormtrooper army (and it's logical), but it was shown that yes, you CAN be a female stormtrooper, and yes, you CAN even be a very high ranking female soldier. It just levels the difference a bit, without creating a false reality. The sith emperor is still a man. The new and promising sith warrior in the cool outfit? A man. The highest ranked official in the military? Yep, a man, and a young one at that. The other officials (all presumably higher ranked than Phasma)? All males. This movie did its best to stay close to reality and not make it into some pussy galore just for the sake of pleasing some false idea that there are literally no differences between men and women. There are, some are pretty big ones, but it Star Wars has always been a fairy tale, so if Luke in the OT could be your "poor, honest farm boy turned into the HERO", then I don't envy Phasma or Rey from the girls of the new generation.
And remember, the only empowering side of Phasma is her captain rank. Her being a ruthless killer is just a cool factor, so not all girls are forced into adoring the kind-hearted, valiant Rey. Same way some of us liked Darth Vader more, there are bound to be children out there who prefer Phasma to Rey, and you don't need logic to back that up. Vader was a cool, mysterious, evil guy in a suit, after all, and it was only later that his character was explored deeper.
On December 27 2015 22:59 AngryMag wrote:
For fuck's sake guys, Deathstar made a little joke, some might have found it funny others not but let's not turn some trivial shit into the elephant in the room, ok?
While I can certainly see a sticky post being on its way, I think it is an elephant in the room. Star Wars is hardly the first to use a strong female protagonist, or a cool female villain, but Star Wars is also not like other movies. Everything it does has a lot bigger impact and influence. It's no secret that Finn's ethnicity and Rey's gender has been and still is a topic of discussion at many places, and I'm sure many people have opinions on the matter, it's just safer not to say anything, as such a discussion can easily turn into something no one wants to deal with.
But putting our heads in the ground and wishing it will go away won't make it so.
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See, that is the main fallacy. Saying females only amount to something the moment they start to do male things, how is that feminism?
Male-female role patterns aren't going to go away.
And until males get wombs, that won't change. If you are protecting your precious vases against an attacking enemy, you don't defend yourself by hitting them with the vases you are trying to protect in the first place.
Males are expendable. Females are not. Males fight. If the first Order loses half of their male members, they are fine. If they instead lose half of their female members, they are fucked.
Being a ruthless evil killer is empowering, because she is apparently good at it? lol
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On December 28 2015 00:04 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:
See, that is the main fallacy. Saying females only amount to something the moment they start to do male things, how is that feminism?
Male-female role patterns aren't going to go away.
And until males get wombs, that won't change. If you are protecting your precious vases against an attacking enemy, you don't defend yourself by hitting them with the vases you are trying to protect in the first place.
Males are expendable. Females are not. Males fight. If the first Order loses half of their male members, they are fine. If they instead lose half of their female members, they are fucked.
Being a ruthless evil killer is empowering, because she is apparently good at it? lol
What do you think the average female response would be to this post of yours? Would they thank you for recognizing their fragility, or would they told you off for putting them onto a pedestal when no one asked for such? It's the Finn-Rey introductory scene all over again. Oh, a women in trouble? Well, I just escaped a nearly fatal crash landing, and almost collapsed from dehydration, but my father taught me that pussy needs saving, so here I co-- oh, she handled herself? Well... all right! Wait, Tie fighters are destroying the settlement! Quick, I have to grab her, because she is a girl, which means she is weak, helpless, and even though I have never been here while she possibly grew up in this place, she's just a girl, so I have to guide my M'lady!!
It's just stupid. Being chivalrous is fine, I don't like when girls make a fuss about that, but enforcing the male-female roles is just bad. No, we don't have wombs, but since when do all girls want to have children? Why should they supposed to have one? The whole point is that the mentality of gender-roles should be erased, or at the very least the lines should be blurred. It sounds medieval that everyone has some kind of mild predestination based on their gender. I don't think stereotypes like men helping out with the physical stuff will ever going to change, and that's fine. Many girls would alos like to have children, or even become a stay at home mom. Just don't try to force anyone into these things. Looking at a girl should not be immediately about observing whether she would be a good host for your children or not, and looking at a man should not be the same as evaluating a donkey.
I realize that reality is harsh, and despite everyone's best efforts, these thing will remain the same for a very long time, but for Christ's sake, Star Wars is a fairy tale at its heart, an inspirational soap opera. You don't want to bombard your youngest audience with the realities of minimal wage, racism, sexism, or in short, the reality that you will probably never be what you really want to be. Yeah, maybe that little girl playing around with her Phasma toy will end up as a single mom in minimal wage and with depression, while everyone treats her differently, just because she's a poor female soul, but at least let her have a fun and vibrant childhood. Let her have her dreams. If we could wish to be the hero one day just like Luke Skywalker was, or ar strong and powerful as Vader was, then I do not see why should we take such things from the other gender. Spoiler alert: I'm nowhere close being either of them, but I am grateful for those childhood experiences and fantasies.
And Phasma is empowering because she is a good soldier who made it very far. How she uses her talent and for what cause is secondary.
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Germany25657 Posts
If you turn this into a weird feminism debate I will be very unhappy
At least take it to PM 
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Wow you guys, keep that discussion out of this thread, it is fking retarded.
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Hyrule19057 Posts
Gwendoline Christie is already confirmed for 8 so we're getting more Phasma, which is awesome.
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It doesn't have anything to do with fragility. That we think in those terms only is a symptom. The reason is women have wombs and men don't.
If 70% of the men die, 30% of the men can impregnate all the women.
If 70% of the women die, 70% of the men won't reproduce. Even a civilized society will collapse in violence. The men will kill each other until there's a near 50/50 balance.
You may think this sounds harsh and unemphatic way to debate a potentially sensitive topic, but how do you think societies can bounce back from defeat in war? And our history is dotted by it. That's how tribal society works and that's the context in which we evolved.
Look at refugees coming to Europe. The majority are males. So people are freaked out and worried about their daughters. And that's a civilized modern society. Not an ancient barbaric one of a SF dystonia one.
If you want to erase gender roles you need to erase them from the gene pool. Because that is where most of them come from.
Now, giving less opportunities to females, paying them less for doing the same job, not having females have serious roles in movies/art/games/novels, that is something to complain about.
But sacrificing your females to defend your females, that's silly. I can still see why you would want that as a plot device. But let's not call it empowering women because that's not what it is. Women not having to serve combat roles is actually what empowers them more, not less.
User was warned for this post
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Please stop with this gender bullshit and take it to other thread. To stay on topic, how do you feel about the new droid. Was it too cute or just the right amount? It felt like wall-e sometimes, i would prefer something what doesn't behave like 5 years old kid.
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I really liked BB8, was definitely on the "cuter" side, but the droids were always sort of used for comedic effect and for an additional POV, so it works. At this point in time he/she/it(?) doesn't hold a candle to R2 in my opinion, but a lot of my love for R2 comes from his close relationship with Anakin in TCW, and to a lesser extent the original movies.
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Germany25657 Posts
I didn't mind the droid, he didn't do anything super retarded and made me smirk once or twice, which is nice.
At least he didn't step in poopie or burn battle droids with his flamethrower
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I re-watched a part of Ep.III today. In the beginning when Obiwan and Anakin are on that shit together with R2D2, he does a lot of stupid stuff, even killed two of those superdroids.
This movie didn't have anything of that. Though, I question the idea of the droid having biological behavior and expressing emotions. But then, I am hard SF.
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Well I watched it at the cinema  Pretty good film I must say, enjoyed it. Finn and Rey felt very fresh and crisp. I'd like to share my thoughts about the movie here instead of making a blog and I hope you'll forgive me if these things have been said, but I don't have to patience to look through 144 pages of comment 
The film was overall good, but I did feel some parts were a bit boring or too drawn-out. The bar-planet, Rey's indecision and determination to keep running away, etc.
First of all I found it hilarious that Finn said "I decided not to kill for the First Order" and 3 scenes later he's killing former-fellow stormtroopers like they're some kind of rabid animals that need to be put down without any regard for human life. One can argue that in the opening scene the people were unarmed civilians, but his choice of words annoyed me a tiny bit :-)
Fuck Jakku. Why on earth are we going back to a desert planet? I was annoyed by this extremely. Why does the force always awaken on a desert planet inside a human? Why not Endor and why not a wookie?
I liked that the Empire's remnants were still there. It would be unrealistic if everything empire related would've just disappeared, but on the other hand why was the Rebel Alliance so niche in this movie? They had what? A grand total of 16 X-wings under their command? It has been 30 years or so, you'd think the New Republic would have a military force to deal with the remaining Empire forces.
I was not disappointed by Luke's appearance but it annoyed me to no end that he did not say anything. Not even a 1-liner. Just a hobo in an old used carpet smiling creeply at a young girl. And then the camera spins from above around them. Woop-dee-doo. This is the part I hated the most. Not for the story element or lack of there of, but for the way the whole scene was constructed, filmed and all.
Phasma. Seemed badass. Ended us in a trash bin after a little threatening. Biggest disappointment of 2015. At this point I'm inclined to believe she was a comic-relief character.
I liked that Kylo Ren was a complex character. As a sith, he was still an apprentice and did not complete his training. This gave Finn and Rey a little handicap which they sorely needed. Also I really liked that Ren did not kill any stormtroopers under his command. He took out his anger on the wall or the chair. The image of him meditating or praying to Vader's mask was pretty deep as well. It showed his internal conflict. It sets him up nicely to be Rey's nemesis for the future part(s).
Although I was a bit annoyed that a childish person like him wanted to be a sith lord. First he should become a man, not this man-child. But that Dolan mask, doe. Ruined the appearance for me totally.
Annd the elephant in the room - the 3rd Death Star. Extremely cliche, although bigger and badder and destroyed Corusant (LOL). The idea was only luke-warm but JJ Abrams did a decent enough spin on it I guess to make it passable in my throat.
Who the fuck is Snoke?
I also enjoyed Poe as a character. So awesome :3
edit: Forgot to mention R2D2 as bonafide Deus Ex Machina. Why did he awaken right then and there? I'd be OK with Rey touching him with the Force or smth, but he just randomly powered up.
I know this film was supposed to be a bit similar to episode IV but fuck man, I dunno maybe it crossed the line a bit for me.
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They must have had 20 different candidate-names for Snoke, but in the end they picked the best one?
The whole thing that there is a map showing where Luke is hiding, which he probably made himself and left somewhere, even though he doesn't want to be found, that seems one of those plot holes they just leave open because it's just too convenient to drive forward the story.
One of those things people expect to be explained in the next two movies, but it never will. Like who ordered the clones and deleted the planet from the archives in Ep.II
Remember discussing that for hours online. We all were 100% sure we would see who was right. Was never brought up.
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On December 27 2015 21:03 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2015 20:53 sharkie wrote:
At no point? He beat Darth Vader, the killer of hundreds of Jedi... You got to wonder how. He could barely move because of his suit, was near-dead without it and he barely used any force powers. I can see Anakin defeat tons of Jedi by his ability to use the force. But his lightsaber ability was near to 0. I could have beaten Darth Vader as seen in A new Hope. And I'd have beating him with an ordinary saber, not a light saber. Now I know not everyone is as physically fit, a trained fencer and badass like me, but that just shows something is wrong with the believably. It fails to suspend disbelief for sure here. Just sucks that every new kid that is barely learning to use the force is then suddenly the strongest force user out of the 100,000 force users ever. Stupid hyperbole. Next movie will be about saving a 100-man space station rather than the entire universe. In these movies you can just snap your finger and a 10+ billion genocide just happened. In a New Hope we had the insta destruction of Alderaan, a planet we knew nothing about. We just get thrown at us the number of 2 billion. But now that isn't enough; no it has to be 5x that? One of the Hollywood diseases of making the lead characters face the highest odds imaginable in said world. Sad.
The skill of Luke and Vader's Light Saber skills in the original trilogy has more to do with the fact that the films are so old. If they were made at the same time as the prequels Luke and Vader would have been dancing and flipping around just like Yoda did when fighting the emperor...
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Obviously true, but it stiff affects my ability to suspend disbelief.
I do hope we are over that flipflop age now. In fact, if someone flips around like some rabid kangaroo, I also question their ability to use the force.
The advantage of Jedi or Sith with masks is that they can use a martial arts double and have actual combat. Nowadays, they need to hide incompetence by changing camera shots several times a second. They did it with Darth Maul, though that was a fluke because the intended actor dropped out. But that worked great. People still talk about how good that was, even-though Maul had zero backstory and the rest of the movie was bad, even for a children's movie.
Hopefully we are now so reactionary we soon get a shot where the camera just pans out, shows two people who realize their death is mm or miliseconds away, so they wait for the right moment, using mindgames and caution. One mistake and they are dead. Better wait and observe and get an advantage through patience.
And hopefully they then don't parry strikes that miss anyway, like 100% of the strikes in Obi vs Anakin, but instead counterattack and win.
Still one of the best fights is the one in shichinin no samurai where they fight fight with bokken, and they do a simultaneous hit, but one guy claims priority, claiming the other would have lost if it had been a real sword.
What about Rylo Ken sword design. I have seen people claim it is not a proper lightsaber. One of the challenges of becoming a jedi, or sith I presume, is constructing your own saber.
It may be that Snoke doesn't follow the rule of two, as he doesn't seem to care too much about training Rylo properly.
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On December 28 2015 01:34 trulojucreathrma.com wrote:
Obviously true, but it stiff affects my ability to suspend disbelief.
I do hope we are over that flipflop age now. In fact, if someone flips around like some rabid kangaroo, I also question their ability to use the force.
The advantage of Jedi or Sith with masks is that they can use a martial arts double and have actual combat. Nowadays, they need to hide incompetence by changing camera shots several times a second. They did it with Darth Maul, though that was a fluke because the intended actor dropped out. But that worked great. People still talk about how good that was, even-though Maul had zero backstory and the rest of the movie was bad, even for a children's movie.
Hopefully we are now so reactionary we soon get a shot where the camera just pans out, shows two people who realize their death is mm or miliseconds away, so they wait for the right moment, using mindgames and caution. One mistake and they are dead. Better wait and observe and get an advantage through patience.
And hopefully they then don't parry strikes that miss anyway, like 100% of the strikes in Obi vs Anakin, but instead counterattack and win.
Still one of the best fights is the one in shichinin no samurai where they fight fight with bokken, and they do a simultaneous hit, but one guy claims priority, claiming the other would have lost if it had been a real sword.
What about Rylo Ken sword design. I have seen people claim it is not a proper lightsaber. One of the challenges of becoming a jedi, or sith I presume, is constructing your own saber.
It may be that Snoke doesn't follow the rule of two, as he doesn't seem to care too much about training Rylo properly.
It's also possible that Snoke isn't a Sith. You can use the dark side of the force without being a Sith.
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I think if he doesn't follow rule of two, by definition he isn't a Sith.
I can't say more. We may not be allowed to talk about the politics inside Star Wars.
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Canada11350 Posts
Is that Extended Universe?
We haven't seen Luke use any force since RotJ. He barely got any training and only did a lightsaber duel with a guy who could barely move.
You got to wonder how. He could barely move because of his suit, was near-dead without it and he barely used any force powers.
This is what makes all the Prequels, yes even the third one terrible prequels, absolutely terrible, in that they should probably split off and form their own canon. The only reason people say this sort of stuff is because they've seen Yoda flip around like a ninny and the Battle of Fates. The Prequels are so bad that they not only make no sense on their own story and have huge story structures flaws, but they cut the legs out of the three perfectly good films, by undermining the power of the force users in the Original.
No-one thought Darth Vader could just barely move prior the the prequels. Nor was their much talk about how Obi Wan and Darth Vader could barely move prior to seeing Battle of Fates. That was fan retcon to explain why there are no flips. The fan degradation of all the lightsaber fights in the Originals is due to the acrobatics Prequels- but the stakes and emotional impact of the Original lightsaber fights blows all the Prequel lightsaber fights out of the water. The Prequels did not set up the Originals but undercut it, so I ignore Prequel discontinuity and hold to the old.
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On December 28 2015 00:43 tofucake wrote:
Gwendoline Christie is already confirmed for 8 so we're getting more Phasma, which is awesome.
I think they shafted her character due to time restrictions, and she wasn't even the only one. I'm sure there are much to our ginger general than just being an annoying brat. J.J. and co. probably just wanted to establish her character and not wait for it two more years - and it also makes sense from a merchandising viewpoint, as she is arguably the second best looking character after Kylo Ren.
I kinda hope she's a good pilot, because we need someone who can match Poe.
On December 28 2015 00:55 johanes wrote:
Please stop with this gender bullshit and take it to other thread. To stay on topic, how do you feel about the new droid. Was it too cute or just the right amount? It felt like wall-e sometimes, i would prefer something what doesn't behave like 5 years old kid.
I could live with a HK-47 character, but if they are going to import something from KOTOR, it better be fucking Raven at some point. Raven's initial saga is much more compelling than the prequels, and it shows the Jedis weakness all the more better than, once again, the prequels.
edit: watched the movie two times, and the biggest ovation was always after BB-8s thumbs up. They really hit it with that little guy.I... I like him better than R2.
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