On December 28 2015 01:34 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: Obviously true, but it stiff affects my ability to suspend disbelief.
I do hope we are over that flipflop age now. In fact, if someone flips around like some rabid kangaroo, I also question their ability to use the force.
The advantage of Jedi or Sith with masks is that they can use a martial arts double and have actual combat. Nowadays, they need to hide incompetence by changing camera shots several times a second. They did it with Darth Maul, though that was a fluke because the intended actor dropped out. But that worked great. People still talk about how good that was, even-though Maul had zero backstory and the rest of the movie was bad, even for a children's movie.
Hopefully we are now so reactionary we soon get a shot where the camera just pans out, shows two people who realize their death is mm or miliseconds away, so they wait for the right moment, using mindgames and caution. One mistake and they are dead. Better wait and observe and get an advantage through patience.
And hopefully they then don't parry strikes that miss anyway, like 100% of the strikes in Obi vs Anakin, but instead counterattack and win. Still one of the best fights is the one in shichinin no samurai where they fight fight with bokken, and they do a simultaneous hit, but one guy claims priority, claiming the other would have lost if it had been a real sword.
What about Rylo Ken sword design. I have seen people claim it is not a proper lightsaber. One of the challenges of becoming a jedi, or sith I presume, is constructing your own saber. It may be that Snoke doesn't follow the rule of two, as he doesn't seem to care too much about training Rylo properly.
Kylo Ren's sword design actually made a lot of sense to me. Swords did not have guards because they made swords look cooler; swords had guards because they prevented ones fingers from getting chopped off and could be used to trap an opponent's sword.
And I do wish they hired someone who knows how sword fighting works (e.g. the guys who did the coreographies for the Kenshin live action movies). Like you say, parrying strikes that wouldn't have hit you is a waste of time and looks amateurish. I watched the movie in 3D and while it adds a nice effect, it also becomes uncomfortably apparent that all the strikes basically never connect.
Onto her cutesy side, it's cool how she has these Rebel memorabilias, and it's an instant heart-stealer when she puts up the pilot helmet and you can see how much she's enjoying herself at dreamland.
Rey was my favourite character (although BB8 is pretty adorable), and I loved that helmet scene. It's such a little moment that didn't need to be there for pacing reasons, but was sooo good for giving a little character moment. After that she'd have to kill Chewbacca or something for me to not like her.
I actually forgot about that scene. That 20 seconds was so powerful for character development. Really great little sequence
Would have made more sense to have the quillions be of lightsaber-resistance material rather than actual lightsaber. Still think that the way it was now, lightsabers would slide bast the lightsaber part of the quillions, then cut off and through the hands of the wielder.
Could have been continuous as well. No reason why a light saber can't be curved if it is cool to have curved ones.
Also, with a sword that deadly and no force needed to have it cut, you can use one hand. It increases the range and frees up a hand for a shield. And there's lightsaber resistant ones as well, right? Or even some odd device in the left hand that can catch a lightsaber when you miss an attack with your right hand (sorry left-handed people).
Rey lunged a lot with two hands. I don't think she even stepped forward doing so. Using both hands limits the range, causing you to miss a killing blow. You are out of position and vulnerable to counter attack in either case.
In any case, protecting your hand would make a lot of sense in real life and in Star Wars fighting reality. How many hands have been cut off already. Anakin, Dooku, Mace, and Luke. Am I missing some?
Maybe this all doesn't have the cool factor, but it would make more sense. Then again, I even believe lens flare and shaky camera syndrome are 'not cool', yet it raked millions. So what do I know?
On December 28 2015 02:18 maartendq wrote: Kylo Ren's sword design actually made a lot of sense to me. Swords did not have guards because they made swords look cooler; swords had guards because they prevented ones fingers from getting chopped off and could be used to trap an opponent's sword.
While I think his light saber does look cool, it doesn't make any sense for a lightsaber. Because unlike a real sword, theres the danger of cutting himself with his crossguard. Also the non lightsabery part of the crossguard looks like it can get cut through by a lightsabre with ease.
Am I the only one getting the distinct feel that his ligthsaber was unfinished? The blade looked "raw" compared to the standard smooth and optimized sabers we are used to seeing. I thought the hilt things were basically venting energy because the saber wasn't stable enough to handle the power. I just figured he kind of sucks as a jedi/sith because pappa sith isn't sure about him and so he is barely padawan level and he can't make a real saber yet. Which also would explain him sucking in combat when injured.
On December 28 2015 03:33 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Am I the only one getting the distinct feel that his ligthsaber was unfinished? The blade looked "raw" compared to the standard smooth and optimized sabers we are used to seeing. I thought the hilt things were basically venting energy because the saber wasn't stable enough to handle the power. I just figured he kind of sucks as a jedi/sith because pappa sith isn't sure about him and so he is barely padawan level and he can't make a real saber yet. Which also would explain him sucking in combat when injured.
I think his actor said that the unstable lightsabre represents his unstable character :D
On December 28 2015 06:38 Doublemint wrote: only problem I had was the meteoric rise of rey's abilities... at this rate she should be about yoda's level once she finishes the padawan course lol.
Being the most incompetent leader of the Jedi does not sound too flattering and I think Rey would gladly skip out on that, Though Rey will never know how bad Yoda was, since not even Luke knows, so he will be forever remembered as this wise old... thing.
I'm not hating on Yoda, the whole Jedi council was useless and weak, but if you are the leader of them, you are much more responsible.
Nitpicks: Too many cameos, Han/Chewie would have been enough (and actually had something to do in the movie, unlike Leia and C3PO).
Rey, while being a cool character with probably interesting background, can just learn to do anything in a matter of seconds: Learn how to fly a spaceship and instantly master it? Check. Repair spaceships and stuff? Check. Beat up 2 Dudes? Check. Be good with a blaster? Check Learn to use the force on the fly? Check.
Seriously... Why are there even other people in this movie, just let her do everything ^^.
On December 28 2015 06:38 Doublemint wrote: only problem I had was the meteoric rise of rey's abilities... at this rate she should be about yoda's level once she finishes the padawan course lol.
Being the most incompetent leader of the Jedi does not sound too flattering and I think Rey would gladly skip out on that, Though Rey will never know how bad Yoda was, since not even Luke knows, so he will be forever remembered as this wise old... thing.
I'm not hating on Yoda, the whole Jedi council was useless and weak, but if you are the leader of them, you are much more responsible.
I see your point, but it's hardly related to my problem ^^
yoda was like one of the most powerful beings and a master manipulator of the force. him being an inept and blind leader might be true, but again is another story entirely.
also rey is super attractive, totally my new nerd crush
On December 28 2015 07:19 Velr wrote: Just saw it, was enjoyable/good.
Nitpicks: Too many cameos, Han/Chewie would have been enough (and actually had something to do in the movie, unlike Leia and C3PO).
Rey, while being a cool character with probably interesting background, can just learn to do anything in a matter of seconds: Learn how to fly a spaceship and instantly master it? Check. Repair spaceships and stuff? Check. Beat up 2 Dudes? Check. Be good with a blaster? Check Learn to use the force on the fly? Check.
Seriously... Why are there even other people in this movie, just let her do everything ^^.
Literally the only thing that cant be explained by her background / upbringing is learning to use the force so quickly. I dont get how she can suddenly know the jedi mind tricks & lightsaber usage (along with finn) when jedis were basically made out to be myths in their time. Maybe the piloting too but its not completely abstract for her to learn to pilot stuff.
Everything else though, she grows up a scavenger on a harsh outer rim desert world - why wouldnt she learn to defend herself with a weapon shes clearly accustomed to, why wouldnt she know how to shoot? Why wouldnt she know how to repair spaceships etc when shes been disassembling & studying their parts for years?
On December 28 2015 07:19 Velr wrote: Just saw it, was enjoyable/good.
Nitpicks: Too many cameos, Han/Chewie would have been enough (and actually had something to do in the movie, unlike Leia and C3PO).
Rey, while being a cool character with probably interesting background, can just learn to do anything in a matter of seconds: Learn how to fly a spaceship and instantly master it? Check. Repair spaceships and stuff? Check. Beat up 2 Dudes? Check. Be good with a blaster? Check Learn to use the force on the fly? Check.
Seriously... Why are there even other people in this movie, just let her do everything ^^.
Literally the only thing that cant be explained by her background / upbringing is learning to use the force so quickly. I dont get how she can suddenly know the jedi mind tricks & lightsaber usage (along with finn) when jedis were basically made out to be myths in their time. Maybe the piloting too but its not completely abstract for her to learn to pilot stuff.
Everything else though, she grows up a scavenger on a harsh outer rim desert world - why wouldnt she learn to defend herself with a weapon shes clearly accustomed to, why wouldnt she know how to shoot? Why wouldnt she know how to repair spaceships etc when shes been disassembling & studying their parts for years?
Seriously the people in this thread lol.
The fighting I totaly agree with, the tech stuff is ham fisted into your face with her knowing the Falcon as good as Han. Its over the top and while she can have flight experience she has certainly never flown the Falcon before and yet within seconds she is pulling maneuvers that would make Han shit his pants.
Its all incredibly shoved in your face as "she is awesome, isn't she awesome" which is a huge turnoff.
I agree with Gorsameth here. I think if you try to be as objective as you can, you have to admit that character and plot development and lack of reference regarding the galaxy are the single biggest flaws of the movie. Much of the stuff said in here can be generalized into these three categories and the critics are right. In a movie community I post in the general critics score is already down to 7.7 from 10. That is already quite the fall from the 9.0 a good week ago. In the long run it will probably go down to somewhere around the 6.5 - 7.0 range, which is still overrated imo but the current scores are just over the top.
Of course you can love the movie, everybody has a different taste, many people find some of my fav movies boring as fuck and that is fine, but when you try to be objective you have to acknowledge these flaws (doesn't mean that you cannot like the movie).
On December 28 2015 07:19 Velr wrote: Just saw it, was enjoyable/good.
Nitpicks: Too many cameos, Han/Chewie would have been enough (and actually had something to do in the movie, unlike Leia and C3PO).
Rey, while being a cool character with probably interesting background, can just learn to do anything in a matter of seconds: Learn how to fly a spaceship and instantly master it? Check. Repair spaceships and stuff? Check. Beat up 2 Dudes? Check. Be good with a blaster? Check Learn to use the force on the fly? Check.
Seriously... Why are there even other people in this movie, just let her do everything ^^.
Literally the only thing that cant be explained by her background / upbringing is learning to use the force so quickly. I dont get how she can suddenly know the jedi mind tricks & lightsaber usage (along with finn) when jedis were basically made out to be myths in their time. Maybe the piloting too but its not completely abstract for her to learn to pilot stuff.
Everything else though, she grows up a scavenger on a harsh outer rim desert world - why wouldnt she learn to defend herself with a weapon shes clearly accustomed to, why wouldnt she know how to shoot? Why wouldnt she know how to repair spaceships etc when shes been disassembling & studying their parts for years?
Seriously the people in this thread lol.
I interpreted the Force aptitude to be explained by the sudden realization that it was not a myth. Han said to her that everything from those myths, from the Force to the Jedi, was all true. She still had doubts about that until Kylo started probing her mind, which is when she made the personal connection that it was all real. So, she decided to experiment and find out just how much she could do. I don't know if there will be a JJ Abrams technical explanation about what makes a person "strong with the force" like Kylo claimed about her, but I liked the possibility of her thinking "if the Jedi could do that, I wonder if I could too" and just rolling with it.
What about character development? What do you mean with plot development? The by far biggest flaw of the movie is its pace. It moves way too fast. Yes there are writing issues here and there as well, but that is pretty much true for every movie and especially these 'blockbuster' ones. What about stuff not connected to writing? Acting? Cinematography? etc
Everybody here who criticizes this new star wars and thinks the OT is so much better has to be joking. There are just as many writing issues in the old one, the pacing was better though. The acting was terrible, especially from Mark Hamill (which is why i never liked Luke for one second) A movie is more than just the script and even there TFA isn't all that much worse than the other Star Wars movies (if at all)
On December 28 2015 09:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: What about character development? What do you mean with plot development? The by far biggest flaw of the movie is its pace. It moves way too fast. Yes there are writing issues here and there as well, but that is pretty much true for every movie and especially these 'blockbuster' ones. What about stuff not connected to writing? Acting? Cinematography? etc
Everybody here who criticizes this new star wars and thinks the OT is so much better has to be joking. There are just as many writing issues in the old one, the pacing was better though. The acting was terrible, especially from Mark Hamill (which is why i never liked Luke for one second) A movie is more than just the script and even there TFA isn't all that much worse than the other Star Wars movies (if at all)
Luke needed three movies to go from zero to hero, Rey needs 45 minutes--> that is bad and rushed character development.
Too fast pacing and bad plot development are connected to each other. the frantic pace in the second half of the movie (basically one long drawn out action scene) prevents good plot development from taking place. Over the course of the movie, there is hardly any plot development. There are character introductions (these are done well imo btw) and then there comes the action part-->bad plot development. Good plot development needs buildup and a nice payoff TFA is all payoff after a certain point. This makes the payoff less rewarding, the emotional climax just rushes by with no fucks given etc.
The reason why the first ones are rated higher lies in the better storytelling, the better plot development, better pacing. I won't judge finally because there are two more movies to come but to label the critical consensus (OT movies= best SW movies) as a joke is overestimating the importance of your own opinion massively.
On December 28 2015 09:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: What about character development? What do you mean with plot development? The by far biggest flaw of the movie is its pace. It moves way too fast. Yes there are writing issues here and there as well, but that is pretty much true for every movie and especially these 'blockbuster' ones. What about stuff not connected to writing? Acting? Cinematography? etc
Everybody here who criticizes this new star wars and thinks the OT is so much better has to be joking. There are just as many writing issues in the old one, the pacing was better though. The acting was terrible, especially from Mark Hamill (which is why i never liked Luke for one second) A movie is more than just the script and even there TFA isn't all that much worse than the other Star Wars movies (if at all)
You are right Hammil acting was horrible. but get rea,l so now the OT is not much better than this remake?, the writing issues of the first ones arent that bad, they were original movies, these writing issues having all the references in the SW Universe are just lame and stupid, but enjoy this so so movie as long as you want, I just remembered my friend telling me that Ren was the "autist" villain, lol best laugh ever about a villain in SW, and in all seriousness Rey is God, they are going to nerf her in Episode 8 or are going to put Ren on steroids? maybe in the next movie She could destroy an Imperial destructor with her mind, who knows.
On December 28 2015 09:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: What about character development? What do you mean with plot development? The by far biggest flaw of the movie is its pace. It moves way too fast. Yes there are writing issues here and there as well, but that is pretty much true for every movie and especially these 'blockbuster' ones. What about stuff not connected to writing? Acting? Cinematography? etc
Everybody here who criticizes this new star wars and thinks the OT is so much better has to be joking. There are just as many writing issues in the old one, the pacing was better though. The acting was terrible, especially from Mark Hamill (which is why i never liked Luke for one second) A movie is more than just the script and even there TFA isn't all that much worse than the other Star Wars movies (if at all)
Luke needed three movies to go from zero to hero, Rey needs 45 minutes--> that is bad and rushed character development.
Too fast pacing and bad plot development are connected to each other. the frantic pace in the second half of the movie (basically one long drawn out action scene) prevents good plot development from taking place. Over the course of the movie, there is hardly any plot development. There are character introductions (these are done well imo btw) and then there comes the action part-->bad plot development. Good plot development needs buildup and a nice payoff TFA is all payoff after a certain point. This makes the payoff less rewarding, the emotional climax just rushes by with no fucks given etc.
The reason why the first ones are rated higher lies in the better storytelling, the better plot development, better pacing. I won't judge finally because there are two more movies to come but to label the critical consensus (OT movies= best SW movies) as a joke is overestimating the importance of your own opinion massively.
Rey never was zero. Luke was a farm boy who had a pretty 'easy' life, Rey had a lot more challenges before her big force adventure. You could argue that she learned the force stuff too fast, but we for one don't know the full story yet (maybe she was trained in the past like a lot of people think) and even if not she may just be more talented than Luke. Who cares? It's not like she does the most impressive force tricks anyway tbh, her starting with the mind control was a bit over the top but other than that?
Well i agree that the pacing is too fast, i don't agree that the payoff wasn't big enough though. The climax was Han's death and the following fight. It was well done imo. Then there is the ending with r2d2 and luke which was a pretty good ending as well.
There are so many flaws with the old movies though... Other flaws than with the new one, but still flaws. The OT is rated that highly because it was new and had a massive impact. Release the movies today and people would criticize them just as much for various things. (rightfully so)
It's pretty hard to say where this new trilogy will stand when all the movies are out, but i would be surprised if the new ones wouldn't top the OT quite easily overall. (obviously it won't have the same impact, i think most people miss this part the most)
On December 28 2015 09:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: What about character development? What do you mean with plot development? The by far biggest flaw of the movie is its pace. It moves way too fast. Yes there are writing issues here and there as well, but that is pretty much true for every movie and especially these 'blockbuster' ones. What about stuff not connected to writing? Acting? Cinematography? etc
Everybody here who criticizes this new star wars and thinks the OT is so much better has to be joking. There are just as many writing issues in the old one, the pacing was better though. The acting was terrible, especially from Mark Hamill (which is why i never liked Luke for one second) A movie is more than just the script and even there TFA isn't all that much worse than the other Star Wars movies (if at all)
You are right Hammil acting was horrible. but get rea,l so now the OT is not much better than this remake?, the writing issues of the first ones arent that bad, they were original movies, these writing issues having all the references in the SW Universe are just lame and stupid, but enjoy this so so movie as long as you want, I just remembered my friend telling me that Ren was the "autist" villain, lol best laugh ever about a villain in SW, and in all seriousness Rey is God, they are going to nerf her in Episode 8 or are going to put Ren on steroids? maybe in the next movie She could destroy an Imperial destructor with her mind, who knows.
I really cannot comment on anything here other than Mark Hamill. Watch this:
Especially the end is REALLY BAD. It's also quite funny that Ben tells us that "only stormtroopers are that precise" and then there isn't one scene in the whole trilogy where these stormtroopers do anything at all. Obviously this is a nitpick, but if they have to tell us how badass these enemies are but cannot SHOW us anything, then that's surely a flaw as well "show, don't tell" The simple fact is that the OT is basically a space fairytale for children, the movies didn't have that last bit of seriousness to it which makes it (imo) hard to watch as an adult in quite a lot of scenes. Some may say that is the 'charme' of the OT and maybe that's true if you watch it as a kid for the first time, but for other people it's distracting and it makes it hard to take everything you see seriously.
But then again, most people here will probably love the OT
Some things are better left to the imagination, that's a powerful device. I wasn't particularly moved, for example, when the New Order blew up all those planets, or the scene in the beginning where the stormtroopers kill all the villagers. That just felt boring to me, because I didn't even know the name of the village, the names of the planets, never saw a villager's face, had no idea who those people were, I wasn't invested in it at all. When you try to "show" just how bad someone is, you end up with scenes like killing younglings, maybe.
EPT
"show, don't tell" 
