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On December 26 2015 23:50 tofucake wrote:
It's not background material, it's actual primary story content. The Clone Wars is another movie and 6 seasons of story about (primarily) Anakin, Obi-wan, Asohka, and Yoda. You can try to tell me that it's ancillary all you want, but it's not.
Guess how many cartoons you need to watch to understand the OT.
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Watched this piece of garbage yesterday...
Plot is basically recycled from episodes 1,2,3 but packed with Disney cartoon elements and with absolutely nothing new to offer in terms of story. New characters are just there to replace to old ones, who by the way suck such tremendous balls it's sad to even look at them. Especially Harrison Ford who is and old drunk and completely ruined the movie with his acting and role in the movie. New bad guy was okay until he removed his mask.
Basically this movie is simply an overhyped American generic product with bad story and generic characters. In fact, everything in this movie is so generic it made me want to go to sleep mid movie.
Not to mention that LITERALLY EVERY GODAMN MINUTE there's an illogical scene and so much stupid interactions and plot holes which could only entertain 8 year old children.
Don't get me wrong, the older movies had gaping plot holes and somewhat forgettable characters, but this was over the top horrible.
It's a shame really considering what they could have made out of this movie, considering the size and scope of the star wars universe, but doesn't really matter seeing as how well the movie was received and how much money it will earn they will keep on pumping these sterile products and earn big cash.
If you want good star wars, go play KOTOR or watch that cartoon series which is a masterpiece in comparisson to this piece of trash.
I didn't expect much out of this movie in the first place, but boy was I not expecting it to be this bad, damn.
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Canada11607 Posts
On December 26 2015 23:02 tofucake wrote:
I've only seen TFA once, but most of that was explained if you pay attention to the dialogue (and also have seen the OT). The Unknown Regions are in The Clone Wars series (officially canon). Starkiller Base originating in the UR is from the Star Wars magazine (also officially canon). There are several lines of dialogue in the movie which explain the Resistance's tiny fleet of X-Wings.
You can criticize TFA in two ways: looking at it as a standalone action movie, where most of these details are irrelevant, or as another chapter in Star Wars. If doing the latter, as you guys seem to be doing, you should at least read up on, if not actually watch (and read the magazine) all of the canon components. Otherwise you're missing important information. It'd be like critiquing Return of the Jedi after watching A New Hope but skipping Empire Strikes Back: you're missing important plot points and then calling ROTJ bad because it glosses over a lot of important details.
One trouble with material outside the movies is it can become decanonized. It happened once before; it can happen again. Furthermore, as an avid reader of the old EU, I would say there is a significant difference between adding to our understanding of the film/ enhancing vs explaining what is in the film. For instance, the rivalry between Prince Xizor and Lord Vader adds greater complexity to the villains behind the scenes. Or the Tales from Mos Eisley Catina told all the stories of all the aliens' leading up to when they appeared in the catina. Amusing, but we aren't reliant on the story to understand the catina scene in Episode IV.
JJ Abrams has a laudable goal. The prequels Told far too much, so from interviews, it seems Abrams is trying to Show more and allow us to infer what is going on. A great example of telling us and then showing us something was Poe's flying abilities. They told us he was the best pilot in the Resistance, but when the X-wings come flying in- one X-wing stands out and we just know it's Poe. His piloting skills is further confirmed when he' picking off stormtroopers next to the heroes.
However, in order to infer we need clues within the film in order to make those conclusions. And I'd say there are a fair amount of clues that are missing. Example: R2D2's sudden awakening. I remember in theatre fighting back the thought 'well, that was convenient' ...because I was enjoying the film, I was on the filmmakers' side, giving it the benefit of the doubt, but I was actually mentally begging the director to give me a little explanation, a little clue on why R2 turned on at exactly that moment. I didn't want to think 'that was convenient' but the film-maker gave me nothing at all- like maybe R2 received a signal from space (presumably from Luke because now he wants to be found- the next movie would reveal that he felt the Force awakening of Rey.) But the film gave me nothing.
From reading around, it turns out that R2 had started his start-up sequence as soon as BB8 came into contact with him with the missing map piece. Great. But there's no clue as to that in the film. It desperately needed a tiny scene once everyone gives up and goes away where a light tries to go on, flickers and shuts off. But then a tiny fan turns on and holds steady (or something turns on), giving us a clue that he's slowly powering back on. Then at the end, we are prepped to the idea that R2 could awaken at any moment.
Same thing with the relative strength of the Resistance, Republic, and First Order. From an interview of Abrams, the First Order is supposed to be like if the Nazis fled to South America and were able to rebuild their power base. Well, great. But unless I missed something in General Hux's speech, there's really nothing to indicate that. Based on the fact that Empire had control of most of the galaxy when it built its Death Stars and the Starkiller is even bigger than the Death Star, I would have to infer based on the power shown on screen that the First Order IS the Empire and controls most of the galaxy. The Republic controls a tiny portion of the galaxy, but for some reason won't fight the much more dominant force and the Resistance is Episode IV Rebels all over again- the only ones willing to fight the galactic empire that survived virtually untouched since the emperor's death on Endor.
Apparently, there's some sort of peace treaty with the old Empire and the First Order is some other group, but we need more clues. We simply can't make the inferences without the necessary clues. Yes, interviews can explain authorial intention, but if we are relying on outside material to make sense of the work, then I think there has been some failures in storytelling/ execution. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the movie, but I think Abrams has a noble goal, but is demonstrating a limited success in fulfilling that goal. Some success, yes so it is a good movie. But he's not adding enough clues for great inference storytelling. It's good, not excellent, though it is certainly a better film than the prequels.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned, but shouldn't Kylo Ren's eyes have been tinged to yellow after killing Han Solo? Anakin's turned after the slaughter of the Padawans. And if Snoke needs to complete his training, what would that be? His own death? The apprentice in the Dark Side must kill the Master and re-establish the Rule of Two.
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I think killing his father was a test that Ren had to pass in order to prove himself before his training could complete. I can't remember exactly what he said but Snoke made some comment that even though Kylo is the master of the Knights of Ren he hasn't faced a test / the test yet. Someone who has seen the movie more recently could remind me if they remember.
I never cracked open an EU book and only had to rely on my viewings of the previous movies but I didn't really have a problem following along with the movie. I do think that ultimately the quality of this movie will be based upon how well the next two movies follow up on it.
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On December 26 2015 15:43 Kipsate wrote:
calling it now that he will refuse to take off the mask as he progresses further into the Dark side/his training.
I feel like it's spoiled, he took off his mask so often that by the time he meets Han, we're so used to it that it has no effect.
They should have waited until the confrontation with Han to reveal his face... for maximum effect, they should have saved it. Like it took 3 movies of Vader wearing a mask, and it only comes off at the end for his son Luke.
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So after Anakin helped the Emperor defeat Mace Windu, he had to go one step further in killing Padawans to pass the test? What would the test be for Kylo? He already ordered the slaughter of innocents in the village when he first arrived. I think what Snoke meant when he said that facing his father would tell him if Ren had indeed been pulled back to the Light side of the Force, not if he was evil enough to do it. Ren probably knew where Leia and the Resistance was hiding this entire time, but had to pretend to not know or had his mind wiped of the location by someone.
This movie was ultimately an updated Episode 5. And that we'll see the progression of it after 8 and 9.
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On December 27 2015 04:23 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2015 15:43 Kipsate wrote:
calling it now that he will refuse to take off the mask as he progresses further into the Dark side/his training. I feel like it's spoiled, he took off his mask so often that by the time he meets Han, we're so used to it that it has no effect. They should have waited until the confrontation with Han to reveal his face... for maximum effect, they should have saved it. Like it took 3 movies of Vader wearing a mask, and it only comes off at the end for his son Luke.
Him removing it had the same effect on Han as it did when Vader told Luke he was his father and then removed his mask at the end.
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On December 27 2015 04:33 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2015 04:23 oBlade wrote:On December 26 2015 15:43 Kipsate wrote:
calling it now that he will refuse to take off the mask as he progresses further into the Dark side/his training. I feel like it's spoiled, he took off his mask so often that by the time he meets Han, we're so used to it that it has no effect. They should have waited until the confrontation with Han to reveal his face... for maximum effect, they should have saved it. Like it took 3 movies of Vader wearing a mask, and it only comes off at the end for his son Luke. Him removing it had the same effect on Han as it did when Vader told Luke he was his father and then removed his mask at the end.
Han presumably already knew what his son looked like. And I don't think it had the same effect on the audience, it didn't have the same effect on me, anyway, because we had already seen his face multiple times. It wasn't a reveal. Him taking his mask off wasn't special. I would definitely rather have seen him only do it once.
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On December 26 2015 22:58 Foxxan wrote:
Just noticed JJ abrams was the creator of the series "Lost". Oh my god, my expectation for VIII just went downhill tremendously.
he isn't directing VIII and IX
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I loved the film. I absolutely enjoyed it and would watch it again in the theatre (probably even will).
Also Rey is hot as fuck, totally my type. Wow.
9.5/10
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Zurich15366 Posts
Watched it last night and agree with most of the criticism in here. Way to little explanation of what the world actually looks like (throughout the movie I thought the New Order is just the Empire and there is a new Resistance - basically everything unchanged after Endor) and super rushed pacing (Can't tell how much time passed in-world. Like one day?)
Overall good movie, went in with expectations too high so my fault that I was disappointed. JJ Abrams after all ...
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On December 27 2015 01:28 marconi wrote:
Watched this piece of garbage yesterday...
Plot is basically recycled from episodes 1,2,3 but packed with Disney cartoon elements and with absolutely nothing new to offer in terms of story. New characters are just there to replace to old ones, who by the way suck such tremendous balls it's sad to even look at them. Especially Harrison Ford who is and old drunk and completely ruined the movie with his acting and role in the movie. New bad guy was okay until he removed his mask.
Basically this movie is simply an overhyped American generic product with bad story and generic characters. In fact, everything in this movie is so generic it made me want to go to sleep mid movie.
Not to mention that LITERALLY EVERY GODAMN MINUTE there's an illogical scene and so much stupid interactions and plot holes which could only entertain 8 year old children.
Don't get me wrong, the older movies had gaping plot holes and somewhat forgettable characters, but this was over the top horrible.
It's a shame really considering what they could have made out of this movie, considering the size and scope of the star wars universe, but doesn't really matter seeing as how well the movie was received and how much money it will earn they will keep on pumping these sterile products and earn big cash.
If you want good star wars, go play KOTOR or watch that cartoon series which is a masterpiece in comparisson to this piece of trash.
I didn't expect much out of this movie in the first place, but boy was I not expecting it to be this bad, damn.
Couldnt agree more.
The actors were so bad it made me giggle.
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On December 27 2015 06:08 zatic wrote:
Watched it last night and agree with most of the criticism in here. Way to little explanation of what the world actually looks like (throughout the movie I thought the New Order is just the Empire and there is a new Resistance - basically everything unchanged after Endor) and super rushed pacing (Can't tell how much time passed in-world. Like one day?)
I agree with the bit about pacing completely. The build-up to the confrontation between Han and Ren was one of the only parts that wasn't that rushed. I think it's a symptom of trying to cram too much into the film, when some of the stuff wasn't necessary (space kraken) and I would rather the film had used that time to slow down a little in some places.
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Also I was expecting some crazy fighting scene when I saw Iko Uwais but he didn't really end up doing anything but getting eaten by tentacle monster I think.
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On December 27 2015 05:39 chrisolo wrote:
I loved the film. I absolutely enjoyed it and would watch it again in the theatre (probably even will).
Also Rey is hot as fuck, totally my type. Wow.
9.5/10
Rey is smoking. I agree 1000% lol
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Funny thing is Rey is deliberately made to look as masculine as possible. Whatever floats your boat.
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On December 27 2015 08:47 Deathstar wrote:
Funny thing is Rey is deliberately made to look as masculine as possible. Whatever floats your boat.
I don't think she'd masculine, just more realistically like a fit girl who scavenges for a living instead of a ScarJo clone.
Personally I don't think she's beautiful or anything, but she's a decent looking girl kind of in the Jennifer Lawrence vein.
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On December 27 2015 08:47 Deathstar wrote:
Funny thing is Rey is deliberately made to look as masculine as possible. Whatever floats your boat.
Uh, why do you say that? Just because she isn't wearing a bikini?
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I don't care too much about this girl to go deep into this, but she fits a scavenger look so that's good.
I think it was good this time around. Hollywood wasn't trying to distract me from their shit plot with a hot looking girl. I just found the comments on Rey weird. She's designed to not be a sexual object but people objectify her anyway.
+ Show Spoiler +blah blah beauty in the eye of beholder
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EPT
