|
|
United Kingdom31935 Posts
Relived my childhood today 
+ Show Spoiler +I quite enjoyed, very fun blockbuster popcorn flick, while it did give me major deja vu of EP IV in a way that isnt a bad thing because what aint broken etc  though I agree with the statements that they played it a little toooo safe but I gues that is what episode 8 and 9 are for :D
|
On December 19 2015 05:04 GumBa wrote:Relived my childhood today + Show Spoiler +I quite enjoyed, very fun blockbuster popcorn flick, while it did give me major deja vu of EP IV in a way that isnt a bad thing because what aint broken etc though I agree with the statements that they played it a little toooo safe but I gues that is what episode 8 and 9 are for :D
+ Show Spoiler +
I felt there was a little too much "fan service". Still a good action movie (I might actually have liked it more if not for being SO much like IV).
|
On December 19 2015 04:52 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 04:44 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 19 2015 04:32 kwizach wrote:On December 19 2015 04:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 19 2015 04:06 SkrollK wrote:On December 19 2015 03:45 oBlade wrote:I haven't seen the film yet, but: + Show Spoiler +It occurs to me that there's people noting or in some cases complaining that the movie copies Episode 4 a lot. And I can't say this is that surprising with JJ's sort of fan-service approach to the Star Trek movies. But it's also true that Episode 4 itself also copies/pays homage to a lot of earlier films, it's just that our generation has no memory of those movies so we wouldn't really see the context of A New Hope being unoriginal; instead, we see it as classic. Basically looking at it as a movie that restarts the series, do people think this would be a fair setup to give Episode 8 the chance to be as great as Episode 5 (which is my favorite)? The thing, which, to my mind, is the problem, is not That it pays hommage to another movie. It is That it totally copy a previous film IN THE SAME FRANCHISE. Part under spoiler spoils (captain obvious There), read at your own risks. + Show Spoiler +Honestly, Just think a second : They basically could have made the same movie, with 2-3 changes, it would have been ok :
1. Remove the superweapon. Find something else as a battle for the final of the film, some skirmish That escalade with renforcements from both sides, for some kind of objective. Do the same lightsaber duel, same han solo's death, but for a complete other reason than destroying DS 3.
2. Explain a little the galactic situation, adding some scenes on coruscant, with some explanation about why a Resistance during the NR, which systems are with FO, ...
3. OP a little bit less Rey and a little bit more Ren, do some actual funerals for Han, get a little more screentime for chewie/Leia's grief at the end.
And as the nail in the coffin, Just take a little care of the biggest inconsistencies.
The movie will not be perfect either. It will have some ressemblance with ep4. BUT, it would have actually been a Great SW movie. Like, really Great. Better than ROTJ, even mb better than ANH.
But they didnt do That. They played it overly safe, and I think they lost. Honestly, I just don't think you're trying really hard to hate on the movie. There are a lot of things you missed about the movie. + Show Spoiler +1) Changing the plot points is irrelevant. Why change them? What's wrong with them being the same? All I am hearing is "it's the same, therefore it's bad". This isn't the case at all. Star Wars isn't making the same mistake that Starcraft did. In Starcraft, the original story was heavily world-driven. We were interested in what was happening on a massive scale; are the Terrans going to survive? What is going on with Protoss civilization? How are the Zerg going to change with Kerrigan as the new leader? Metzen then tried to make SC2 character driven, with the main focus of the story as Kerrigan/Raynor/Artanis's characters as opposed to the larger events. This has never been what Star Wars was about. Star Wars was always a very character-driven story about personal journeys and redemption. The entire first six movies were about a man's fall from grace and redemption as a father. The backdrop of the galactic events were basically window dressing. Because of this, it really doesn't matter if they're the same or not. As long as it was done well (which it was), it can be the same plot points. 2) Both of your points (2 and 3) did exactly what all great intro movies to a series do; they set you up wanting more. Episode IV did the exact same thing. So did The Fellowship of the Ring. So did a whole slew of other ones. They give you compelling characters and/or situations and give you just enough to set up a framework, but don't give you enough to fill in the pieces. The majority of these key details were filled in during Episode V when compared to Episode IV, so it fits naturally into a good narrative arc for Episode VIII to do this for Episode VII. Also, I didn't really notice any major inconsistencies since they just completely threw out the expanded universe. http://www.dailydot.com/geek/star-wars-expanded-universe-not-canon/ He didn't miss anything about the movie. You just happen to not be bothered by borderline plagiarism and by getting virtually zero information about the global political context. I don't think you understand what the word plagiarism means. And Have you been living under a rock? There are quite a few series that do the same thing and give you only a very vague geopolitical framework to start with in the first episode(s). It's a standard literary/film practice. So no, I'm not particularly bothered by either of these, because they were well-done. I do understand what the word means, thank you. Like I detailed extensively in my initial post, huge plot points of this movie are directly copy/pasted from Episode IV and VI, and in several aspects executed more poorly + Show Spoiler +(did you, at any point, seriously think the third death star would actually destroy the resistance's base? the tension was much more palpable in Episode IV). No, I haven't been living under a rock, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't feel the need to resort to petty personal comments. It is absolutely laughable that we received almost no information on + Show Spoiler +the new Republic, on the place of the FO in the galaxy, and in how the Resistance came to be what it is. It even detracted from the movie, because we had no emotional investment in + Show Spoiler +the Republic worlds which were destroyed by the first shot (as opposed to the destruction of Alderaan in Ep. IV, which we lived through Leia's distress and helplessness). Considering what was at stake in Episodes IV-VI, we deserved to know what the aftermath of those films was in this respect. It was safe and lazy scriptwriting, and certainly not stylistically justified.
Maybe He is living under a rock and doesnt know that some people prefer not a copy cat movie, but a new and interesting plot, obviously based in SW world, I am with you in this, but it is personal taste, the thing is that this Stratos guy thinks that everybody who doesnt think like him is living in another galaxy, he is a "funny" guy.
|
On December 19 2015 01:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:One thing I don't understand is: + Show Spoiler +The Rebellion made sense because the Empire controlled virtually the entire galaxy and this was an organized band dedicated to take out the Empire and set up a new Republic. But now there's already a Republic. So what is the Resistance resisting? Are they the military wing of the Republic? Is the galaxy split in two and the Resistance is the space Vietcong? The First Order looks pretty powerful, even with Starkiller base gone, and we know there's probably a capital planet somewhere where Snoke is sitting. But they can't be THAT big.
I really hope we'll get to see more of the two societies, at the very least so they can be contrasted. One of the things I always enjoyed about all of the episodes is that they showed glimpses of what it was like to be an average Joe in this universe. You had a lot of scenes on Naboo, Geonosis, Utapau, Coruscant, Bespin and a shitload of scenes on Tatooine showing ordinary people going about their lives on these planets. It gave a sense of scale to the adventures. And it'll be interesting to see who actually lives in the First Order behind the masses of Stormtroopers and Dark Jedi.
+ Show Spoiler +
I think that the First Order, while powerful, is still occupying a relatively small portion of the galaxy. As you say, they can't be that big. They were formed "from the ashes of the Empire," as the title screen states, so I imagine that their capital is a former Imperial base or something, probably a sector or oversector capital. Snoke might be hiding out on some remote temple planet though, he seems like the type who'd do that.
So they're a relatively small but powerful state, making the area of the galaxy they're in effectively occupied territory, a la France during WWII. The Republic controls the territory de jure, but a foreign power has installed a regime, and so the locals must form a resistance with support from fragments of their original leadership.
|
On December 19 2015 05:49 Coppermantis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 01:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:One thing I don't understand is: + Show Spoiler +The Rebellion made sense because the Empire controlled virtually the entire galaxy and this was an organized band dedicated to take out the Empire and set up a new Republic. But now there's already a Republic. So what is the Resistance resisting? Are they the military wing of the Republic? Is the galaxy split in two and the Resistance is the space Vietcong? The First Order looks pretty powerful, even with Starkiller base gone, and we know there's probably a capital planet somewhere where Snoke is sitting. But they can't be THAT big.
I really hope we'll get to see more of the two societies, at the very least so they can be contrasted. One of the things I always enjoyed about all of the episodes is that they showed glimpses of what it was like to be an average Joe in this universe. You had a lot of scenes on Naboo, Geonosis, Utapau, Coruscant, Bespin and a shitload of scenes on Tatooine showing ordinary people going about their lives on these planets. It gave a sense of scale to the adventures. And it'll be interesting to see who actually lives in the First Order behind the masses of Stormtroopers and Dark Jedi. + Show Spoiler +
I think that the First Order, while powerful, is still occupying a relatively small portion of the galaxy. As you say, they can't be that big. They were formed "from the ashes of the Empire," as the title screen states, so I imagine that their capital is a former Imperial base or something, probably a sector or oversector capital. Snoke might be hiding out on some remote temple planet though, he seems like the type who'd do that.
So they're a relatively small but powerful state, making the area of the galaxy they're in effectively occupied territory, a la France during WWII. The Republic controls the territory de jure, but a foreign power has installed a regime, and so the locals must form a resistance with support from fragments of their original leadership.
+ Show Spoiler +And in a way, I think this justifies a Death Star. It shows that while they're small, they present a very real threat to the entire Republic.
|
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On December 19 2015 05:13 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 05:04 GumBa wrote:Relived my childhood today + Show Spoiler +I quite enjoyed, very fun blockbuster popcorn flick, while it did give me major deja vu of EP IV in a way that isnt a bad thing because what aint broken etc though I agree with the statements that they played it a little toooo safe but I gues that is what episode 8 and 9 are for :D + Show Spoiler +
I felt there was a little too much "fan service". Still a good action movie (I might actually have liked it more if not for being SO much like IV).
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah I think too but people saying it's terrible are overreacting imo, it's a solid flick
|
Just saw the movie after seeing the six other movies during the last two days, thought it was great ! During the ride home I couldn't wait to go on the internet to find someone that would go on great lengths to cherry pick on minors details of the movie and boy was I not disappointed by some people here
|
On December 19 2015 06:30 SpiZe wrote:Just saw the movie after seeing the six other movies during the last two days, thought it was great ! During the ride home I couldn't wait to go on the internet to find someone that would go on great lengths to cherry pick on minors details of the movie and boy was I not disappointed by some people here
Please. Of course it is totally fine if you have a different opinion to the guys "going to great lengths". But these dudes bring something to the thread. You don't do that, you just put out a one liner "it's good" and then complain about others who offer more. That's not fair.
|
+ Show Spoiler +Sounded to me like the first order is the organization that developed out of the empire. The republic probably established itself after the temporary collapse/weakness of the empire. In the EU the new Republic and the old empire are roughly of the same strength, maybe with the empire being a bit more powerful. Considering that the republic didn't fight back at all after the DS-hit and the forces of the rebellion were pretty small, I think that the scales are even more heavily tipped towards the FO.
|
Fandom is always a mixed bag, especially on the internet. People do get nit picky almost to a fault, IMO. But Star Wars at is core has a broad appeal a lot of people, so its going to gloss over some stuff people really want to know about.
|
Let the EU fill in the world-building details that don't fit well into the movies. The SQ universe is too big to be properly covered in 6 hours worth of a trilogy.
|
On December 19 2015 06:35 AngryMag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 06:30 SpiZe wrote:Just saw the movie after seeing the six other movies during the last two days, thought it was great ! During the ride home I couldn't wait to go on the internet to find someone that would go on great lengths to cherry pick on minors details of the movie and boy was I not disappointed by some people here Please. Of course it is totally fine if you have a different opinion to the guys "going to great lengths". But these dudes bring something to the thread. You don't do that, you just put out a one liner "it's good" and then complain about others who offer more. That's not fair.
Alright, ill have a go
The problem with these posts is actually very simple : they all treat Episode 4-6 as if they were some sort of golden jewels of cinematography,
+ Show Spoiler +
Like I read through some of the comments here and one guy goes ahead and say that the destruction of the senate worlds by the Solar Cannon thing doesn't mean anything because we don't know anything about these worlds, and he's right. They aren't even named. However he compares this with the destruction of Alderaan that we apparently cared about... because Leia did. I'm sorry but no. There wasn't even a shot of Alderaan in Episode 4, just a big rock. At least in 7 I can that indeed people died, episode 4 showed a rock exploding and Leia crying. I mean in both case it's doesnt really mean anything to the viewer beyond the fact they have a powerful weapon
Another person (or maybe it's the same I don't know) compared the DeathStar vs Rebel Base of episode 4 and Solar Cannon vs Rebel Base of episode 7. Again I think it's totally fine to compare the two, but when you start saying that hm... the tension was much more palpable in episode 4 while in episode 7 you never really thought they were in danger... I mean what ? How did can you actually believe that Luke would fail (and probably die, seeing as Vader was about to kill him when the Falcon arrived and Leia would die ? The main cast destroyed in a single stroke ?
I think it's fine to criticize the movie and point out some of its flaws, but when people compare it to the older movies (by that I mean in the relative quality of both, it's fine to compare the movies if you want to talk about the story or contuinity or in-universe stuff or w/e, it just mean comparing them as movies) as if they were perfect, it bothers me.
Sorry, it's true that my initial post didn't explain my reaction at all
|
On December 19 2015 06:44 LegalLord wrote:
Let the EU fill in the world-building details that don't fit well into the movies. The SQ universe is too big to be properly covered in 6 hours worth of a trilogy.
Or just be happy not to know. That is part of the fun of Star wars for me, that it doesn't take the time to explain everything. Its just like "Here is a bunch alien and they all are a band. This guy looks like a giant T-bone and doesn't appear to have hands. His drink is made of gas. Ok, next shot."
Its one of the magic parts of Starwars, that the character and story take plan in the world and don't treat is as fantastical or magic. Its just normal for them and is treated that way. A lot of Sci-fi doesn't do that.
Edit: And 4-6 have HUGE problems, like so pretty meh acting and weird plotting.
|
On December 19 2015 06:03 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 05:13 y0su wrote:On December 19 2015 05:04 GumBa wrote:Relived my childhood today + Show Spoiler +I quite enjoyed, very fun blockbuster popcorn flick, while it did give me major deja vu of EP IV in a way that isnt a bad thing because what aint broken etc though I agree with the statements that they played it a little toooo safe but I gues that is what episode 8 and 9 are for :D + Show Spoiler +
I felt there was a little too much "fan service". Still a good action movie (I might actually have liked it more if not for being SO much like IV).
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah I think too but people saying it's terrible are overreacting imo, it's a solid flick
Agreed.
|
On that note I'd actually posit that + Show Spoiler +The third Death Star and the environment of the planet it's based on is actually a lot more visually (and thus emotionally) striking than either of the first two. The second death star was skeletal, which did actually make it a bit more terrifying (but then again, all it did was blow up two ships and then get itself blown up). The third one actually eats a sun when it's used, and this time we even get a reaction shot of the people on a planet getting incinerated as the shots hit planetside. You can sense the impending doom not because of a countdown timer, but because the sunlight actually gets dimmer and dimmer as the weapon comes closer to firing. Also the destruction is more drawn out, with enough time for Snoke to get the main antagonists (and Phasma who apparently survived) off-planet, you see the planet pulse, crack, and explode, tie fighters struggling to escape the explosion, etc.
|
On December 19 2015 06:03 GumBa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 05:13 y0su wrote:On December 19 2015 05:04 GumBa wrote:Relived my childhood today + Show Spoiler +I quite enjoyed, very fun blockbuster popcorn flick, while it did give me major deja vu of EP IV in a way that isnt a bad thing because what aint broken etc though I agree with the statements that they played it a little toooo safe but I gues that is what episode 8 and 9 are for :D + Show Spoiler +
I felt there was a little too much "fan service". Still a good action movie (I might actually have liked it more if not for being SO much like IV).
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah I think too but people saying it's terrible are overreacting imo, it's a solid flick
+ Show Spoiler +Is expecting a new movie to be something new an over reaction?
Fan service call backs are great and all but just having Han, Chewie, Luke and Leia is good enough. There was no need to slightly modify the script of A New Hope and call it The Force Awakens.
|
On December 19 2015 06:52 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 06:35 AngryMag wrote:On December 19 2015 06:30 SpiZe wrote:Just saw the movie after seeing the six other movies during the last two days, thought it was great ! During the ride home I couldn't wait to go on the internet to find someone that would go on great lengths to cherry pick on minors details of the movie and boy was I not disappointed by some people here Please. Of course it is totally fine if you have a different opinion to the guys "going to great lengths". But these dudes bring something to the thread. You don't do that, you just put out a one liner "it's good" and then complain about others who offer more. That's not fair. Alright, ill have a go The problem with these posts is actually very simple : they all treat Episode 4-6 as if they were some sort of golden jewels of cinematography, + Show Spoiler +
Like I read through some of the comments here and one guy goes ahead and say that the destruction of the senate worlds by the Solar Cannon thing doesn't mean anything because we don't know anything about these worlds, and he's right. They aren't even named. However he compares this with the destruction of Alderaan that we apparently cared about... because Leia did. I'm sorry but no. There wasn't even a shot of Alderaan in Episode 4, just a big rock. At least in 7 I can that indeed people died, episode 4 showed a rock exploding and Leia crying. I mean in both case it's doesnt really mean anything to the viewer beyond the fact they have a powerful weapon
Another person (or maybe it's the same I don't know) compared the DeathStar vs Rebel Base of episode 4 and Solar Cannon vs Rebel Base of episode 7. Again I think it's totally fine to compare the two, but when you start saying that hm... the tension was much more palpable in episode 4 while in episode 7 you never really thought they were in danger... I mean what ? How did can you actually believe that Luke would fail (and probably die, seeing as Vader was about to kill him when the Falcon arrived and Leia would die ? The main cast destroyed in a single stroke ?
I think it's fine to criticize the movie and point out some of its flaws, but when people compare it to the older movies (by that I mean in the relative quality of both, it's fine to compare the movies if you want to talk about the story or contuinity or in-universe stuff or w/e, it just mean comparing them as movies) as if they were perfect, it bothers me. Sorry, it's true that my initial post didn't explain my reaction at all
Thx for clarifying and expanding your thoughts
|
On December 19 2015 05:52 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 05:49 Coppermantis wrote:On December 19 2015 01:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:One thing I don't understand is: + Show Spoiler +The Rebellion made sense because the Empire controlled virtually the entire galaxy and this was an organized band dedicated to take out the Empire and set up a new Republic. But now there's already a Republic. So what is the Resistance resisting? Are they the military wing of the Republic? Is the galaxy split in two and the Resistance is the space Vietcong? The First Order looks pretty powerful, even with Starkiller base gone, and we know there's probably a capital planet somewhere where Snoke is sitting. But they can't be THAT big.
I really hope we'll get to see more of the two societies, at the very least so they can be contrasted. One of the things I always enjoyed about all of the episodes is that they showed glimpses of what it was like to be an average Joe in this universe. You had a lot of scenes on Naboo, Geonosis, Utapau, Coruscant, Bespin and a shitload of scenes on Tatooine showing ordinary people going about their lives on these planets. It gave a sense of scale to the adventures. And it'll be interesting to see who actually lives in the First Order behind the masses of Stormtroopers and Dark Jedi. + Show Spoiler +
I think that the First Order, while powerful, is still occupying a relatively small portion of the galaxy. As you say, they can't be that big. They were formed "from the ashes of the Empire," as the title screen states, so I imagine that their capital is a former Imperial base or something, probably a sector or oversector capital. Snoke might be hiding out on some remote temple planet though, he seems like the type who'd do that.
So they're a relatively small but powerful state, making the area of the galaxy they're in effectively occupied territory, a la France during WWII. The Republic controls the territory de jure, but a foreign power has installed a regime, and so the locals must form a resistance with support from fragments of their original leadership.
+ Show Spoiler +And in a way, I think this justifies a Death Star. It shows that while they're small, they present a very real threat to the entire Republic.
+ Show Spoiler + do you realize what kind of power and funds it would take to construct a base several times the size of the death star without anyone noticing or putting a stop to it? Something not even the almighty empire with its 100s of star systems managed to do? No way a 'relatively small' organisation could ever accomplish that
|
On December 19 2015 05:33 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 04:52 kwizach wrote:On December 19 2015 04:44 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 19 2015 04:32 kwizach wrote:On December 19 2015 04:20 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 19 2015 04:06 SkrollK wrote:On December 19 2015 03:45 oBlade wrote:I haven't seen the film yet, but: + Show Spoiler +It occurs to me that there's people noting or in some cases complaining that the movie copies Episode 4 a lot. And I can't say this is that surprising with JJ's sort of fan-service approach to the Star Trek movies. But it's also true that Episode 4 itself also copies/pays homage to a lot of earlier films, it's just that our generation has no memory of those movies so we wouldn't really see the context of A New Hope being unoriginal; instead, we see it as classic. Basically looking at it as a movie that restarts the series, do people think this would be a fair setup to give Episode 8 the chance to be as great as Episode 5 (which is my favorite)? The thing, which, to my mind, is the problem, is not That it pays hommage to another movie. It is That it totally copy a previous film IN THE SAME FRANCHISE. Part under spoiler spoils (captain obvious There), read at your own risks. + Show Spoiler +Honestly, Just think a second : They basically could have made the same movie, with 2-3 changes, it would have been ok :
1. Remove the superweapon. Find something else as a battle for the final of the film, some skirmish That escalade with renforcements from both sides, for some kind of objective. Do the same lightsaber duel, same han solo's death, but for a complete other reason than destroying DS 3.
2. Explain a little the galactic situation, adding some scenes on coruscant, with some explanation about why a Resistance during the NR, which systems are with FO, ...
3. OP a little bit less Rey and a little bit more Ren, do some actual funerals for Han, get a little more screentime for chewie/Leia's grief at the end.
And as the nail in the coffin, Just take a little care of the biggest inconsistencies.
The movie will not be perfect either. It will have some ressemblance with ep4. BUT, it would have actually been a Great SW movie. Like, really Great. Better than ROTJ, even mb better than ANH.
But they didnt do That. They played it overly safe, and I think they lost. Honestly, I just don't think you're trying really hard to hate on the movie. There are a lot of things you missed about the movie. + Show Spoiler +1) Changing the plot points is irrelevant. Why change them? What's wrong with them being the same? All I am hearing is "it's the same, therefore it's bad". This isn't the case at all. Star Wars isn't making the same mistake that Starcraft did. In Starcraft, the original story was heavily world-driven. We were interested in what was happening on a massive scale; are the Terrans going to survive? What is going on with Protoss civilization? How are the Zerg going to change with Kerrigan as the new leader? Metzen then tried to make SC2 character driven, with the main focus of the story as Kerrigan/Raynor/Artanis's characters as opposed to the larger events. This has never been what Star Wars was about. Star Wars was always a very character-driven story about personal journeys and redemption. The entire first six movies were about a man's fall from grace and redemption as a father. The backdrop of the galactic events were basically window dressing. Because of this, it really doesn't matter if they're the same or not. As long as it was done well (which it was), it can be the same plot points. 2) Both of your points (2 and 3) did exactly what all great intro movies to a series do; they set you up wanting more. Episode IV did the exact same thing. So did The Fellowship of the Ring. So did a whole slew of other ones. They give you compelling characters and/or situations and give you just enough to set up a framework, but don't give you enough to fill in the pieces. The majority of these key details were filled in during Episode V when compared to Episode IV, so it fits naturally into a good narrative arc for Episode VIII to do this for Episode VII. Also, I didn't really notice any major inconsistencies since they just completely threw out the expanded universe. http://www.dailydot.com/geek/star-wars-expanded-universe-not-canon/ He didn't miss anything about the movie. You just happen to not be bothered by borderline plagiarism and by getting virtually zero information about the global political context. I don't think you understand what the word plagiarism means. And Have you been living under a rock? There are quite a few series that do the same thing and give you only a very vague geopolitical framework to start with in the first episode(s). It's a standard literary/film practice. So no, I'm not particularly bothered by either of these, because they were well-done. I do understand what the word means, thank you. Like I detailed extensively in my initial post, huge plot points of this movie are directly copy/pasted from Episode IV and VI, and in several aspects executed more poorly + Show Spoiler +(did you, at any point, seriously think the third death star would actually destroy the resistance's base? the tension was much more palpable in Episode IV). No, I haven't been living under a rock, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't feel the need to resort to petty personal comments. It is absolutely laughable that we received almost no information on + Show Spoiler +the new Republic, on the place of the FO in the galaxy, and in how the Resistance came to be what it is. It even detracted from the movie, because we had no emotional investment in + Show Spoiler +the Republic worlds which were destroyed by the first shot (as opposed to the destruction of Alderaan in Ep. IV, which we lived through Leia's distress and helplessness). Considering what was at stake in Episodes IV-VI, we deserved to know what the aftermath of those films was in this respect. It was safe and lazy scriptwriting, and certainly not stylistically justified. Maybe He is living under a rock and doesnt know that some people prefer not a copy cat movie, but a new and interesting plot, obviously based in SW world, I am with you in this, but it is personal taste, the thing is that this Stratos guy thinks that everybody who doesnt think like him is living in another galaxy, he is a "funny" guy.
Differences of opinion are fine. I just don't find criticism very meaningful or legitimate when it amounts to, "It's the exact same as Episode IV!" without 1) saying why having the same narrative arc is bad and 2) not acknowledging the huge amount of differences in the plot itself. This whole thing was a very deliberate project to create the Episode IV narrative but put interesting twists on all of its major aspects.
|
On December 19 2015 07:25 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 05:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 19 2015 05:49 Coppermantis wrote:On December 19 2015 01:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:One thing I don't understand is: + Show Spoiler +The Rebellion made sense because the Empire controlled virtually the entire galaxy and this was an organized band dedicated to take out the Empire and set up a new Republic. But now there's already a Republic. So what is the Resistance resisting? Are they the military wing of the Republic? Is the galaxy split in two and the Resistance is the space Vietcong? The First Order looks pretty powerful, even with Starkiller base gone, and we know there's probably a capital planet somewhere where Snoke is sitting. But they can't be THAT big.
I really hope we'll get to see more of the two societies, at the very least so they can be contrasted. One of the things I always enjoyed about all of the episodes is that they showed glimpses of what it was like to be an average Joe in this universe. You had a lot of scenes on Naboo, Geonosis, Utapau, Coruscant, Bespin and a shitload of scenes on Tatooine showing ordinary people going about their lives on these planets. It gave a sense of scale to the adventures. And it'll be interesting to see who actually lives in the First Order behind the masses of Stormtroopers and Dark Jedi. + Show Spoiler +
I think that the First Order, while powerful, is still occupying a relatively small portion of the galaxy. As you say, they can't be that big. They were formed "from the ashes of the Empire," as the title screen states, so I imagine that their capital is a former Imperial base or something, probably a sector or oversector capital. Snoke might be hiding out on some remote temple planet though, he seems like the type who'd do that.
So they're a relatively small but powerful state, making the area of the galaxy they're in effectively occupied territory, a la France during WWII. The Republic controls the territory de jure, but a foreign power has installed a regime, and so the locals must form a resistance with support from fragments of their original leadership.
+ Show Spoiler +And in a way, I think this justifies a Death Star. It shows that while they're small, they present a very real threat to the entire Republic. + Show Spoiler + do you realize what kind of power and funds it would take to construct a base several times the size of the death star without anyone noticing or putting a stop to it? Something not even the almighty empire with its 100s of star systems managed to do? No way a 'relatively small' organisation could ever accomplish that
+ Show Spoiler +So it helps to show that the First Order isn't a fringe group that only a few people care about, but rather a very real threat to the entire galaxy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
