EPT[Movie] The Hobbit Trilogy - Page 87
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IAmWithStupid
Russian Federation1016 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Oh, and the stupid Nydus Canals that 1) probably can't be controlled like that in the first place 2) are just used to dig tunnels? The way they're presented, the wereworms probably could've decimated the Dwarf/Human/Elf armies. But then they just go home to the desert and relax. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 19 2014 03:49 Alzadar wrote: Legolas hanging around 10yo Aragorn would be as creepy as it would be hilarious.Aragorn was born in 2931 of the Third Age, and The Hobbit takes place in 2941 Third Age. So yup he's 10, and also his ancestry was a secret kept from Aragorn until he was 20, so it's unlikely that Elrond was just telling everyone who he was. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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KwarK
United States44402 Posts
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
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SmoKim
Denmark10307 Posts
One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers Off-topic, but i had to share ^^ sick burn | ||
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Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On December 19 2014 22:52 Jibba wrote: + Show Spoiler + The Eagles' role is probably smaller than in RotK. Perhaps it's because they've already been established, but the bats they kill just aren't presented as that much of a threat. Especially if Legolas can just hang on all of them. The Goblins are pretty irrelevant too, for that matter. Speaking of more Legolas dumbfuckery, he takes Beorn's role, basically. Beorn is in the movie for like 3 seconds, and nowhere near Bolg. It's dumb. The more I think about the movie, the more annoyed I get. Dain's role is pretty minimal and he also seems to be a fairly shoddy CGI render in part of it. Helm's Deep was such a fantastically executed scene (I know war history professors who discuss it/love it for how "realistically" it's executed), whereas this was a bunch of illogical crap for the sake of looking cool. Someone mentioned it earlier, but the elves jumping over the shield wall to fight hand-to-hand rather than sending volleys is so dumb. Bringing in eucatastrophe is a good point because I never really felt it here. The second orc army has very little impact. + Show Spoiler + Well based on the rather useless Laketown fight at the end of the second, I expected Legolas and Bolg to duke it out. But only 3 seconds? So does Beorn not take on Azog? (who on film is the true counterpart to the book's Bolg.) Beorn's rescue of the mortally wounded Thorin and his subsequent attack on the bodyguard and the goblin chief is one of the most badass moments in The Hobbit even it was told in retrospect Beorn "tossed wolves and goblins from his path like straws and feathers. He fell upon their rear, and broke like a clap of thunder through the ring." "Swiftly he returned and his wrath was redoubled, so that nothing could withstand him, and no weapon seemed to bite upon him. He scattered the bodyguard, and pulled down Bolg himself and crushed him. Then dismay fell on the goblins and they fled in all directions." It's one of those epic moments that you wish you could've seen and I had hoped the movie would show it. I'm going to be rather sad tonight Beorn is just a cameo appearance. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 20 2014 03:28 Falling wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well based on the rather useless Laketown fight at the end of the second, I expected Legolas and Bolg to duke it out. But only 3 seconds? So does Beorn not take on Azog? (who on film is the true counterpart to the book's Bolg.) Beorn's rescue of the mortally wounded Thorin and his subsequent attack on the bodyguard and the goblin chief is one of the most badass moments in The Hobbit even it was told in retrospect Beorn "tossed wolves and goblins from his path like straws and feathers. He fell upon their rear, and broke like a clap of thunder through the ring." "Swiftly he returned and his wrath was redoubled, so that nothing could withstand him, and no weapon seemed to bite upon him. He scattered the bodyguard, and pulled down Bolg himself and crushed him. Then dismay fell on the goblins and they fled in all directions." It's one of those epic moments that you wish you could've seen and I had hoped the movie would show it. I'm going to be rather sad tonight Beorn is just a cameo appearance. His entrance is amazing, and then you're immediately left wondering where he went. Apparently he gets a lot more screen time in the extended version. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 20 2014 01:01 KwarK wrote: In fairness the guy deliberately avoided telling him the name of the guy he was looking for. + Show Spoiler + That also made no sense. Thranduil, why can't you tell him his name? What are you, the Riddler? That whole scene was just a super contrived winkwink to make the slowest audience members go, "I REMEMBER THAT!" It was basically a Dane Cook joke. | ||
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Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On December 20 2014 07:19 Jibba wrote: His entrance is amazing, and then you're immediately left wondering where he went. Apparently he gets a lot more screen time in the extended version. Yeah just saw it. I think it was a completely missed opportunity. I really, really want to see Thorin surrounded, Beorn bust in for the rescue, and then come back to take on the bodyguards and the orc chief himself.  You're also right about no Eucatastrophe moment in the movie with+ Show Spoiler + the Eagles. I think a large part of the issue is once they go up to Ravenhill, you lose any sense of the larger battle. So when the second army comes, you never get that sense of impending doom on the strategic scale, only in the microcosm scale. The last we saw from the main armies were the good guys were pushing back and finding second wind, so that iconic moment: The Eagles! The Eagles are coming! largely whiffs the moment. You need that moment of the armies getting surrounded to feel the full weight of the new army. I don't mind using Ravenhill as strategic point for a commando squad to conquer- I liked the sephamores. But I would have preferred if the individuals reconnected in the battle below. On the other side of things, I really like how they handled Bilbo's decision making regarding the Arkenstone- if handled poorly, Bilbo could've come off really douchey for not returning the Arkenstone. However, between his own self-doubt and a key conversation with Balin, they really nailed why Bilbo would want to keep it secret and then turn it over to the other side. + Show Spoiler + The actual inclusion of *wink *wink Aragorn was odd, but I'm not sure the timeline is as off as people think. In Two Towers (extended) film, Aragorn gives his age, which (I assume) is the right age according to the books. However, because film Fellowship all occurs in the same year, seventeen years were lost (book Fellowship, Gandalf disappears for that length of time to search for Gollum and search out old records, etc.) So subtracting seventeen years, would put Aragorn at 27 at least- The Hobbit films specified that it was 77 years prior to Fellowship rather than 60. (I can't remember, so I have no idea.) | ||
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
On December 19 2014 22:52 Jibba wrote: Helm's Deep was such a fantastically executed scene (I know war history professors who discuss it/love it for how "realistically" it's executed), whereas this was a bunch of illogical crap for the sake of looking cool. Someone mentioned it earlier, but the elves jumping over the shield wall to fight hand-to-hand rather than sending volleys is so dumb. Bringing in eucatastrophe is a good point because I never really felt it here. The second orc army has very little impact. well, it's not like Peter Jackson doesn't have a history of directing dumb battles (except for Helm's Deep, which looked fine). Remember the Osgiliath battles in RotK? First the orcs cross the river tightly packed in boats. Half of Faramirs troops are lightly armored Rangers, which are awesome archers as we have seen. So instead of killing the easy targets with arrows and preventing them from landing with the heavy infantry guys, they decide to hide behind pillars and walls and let the orcs land and "sneak" attack from behind after two orcs ran by? D'uh Denethor then decides that Osgiliath has fallen too easy and must be retaken. mkay... The city is somewhat close to Osgiliath, Minas Tirith is packed with heavy Infantry, there is no way that the Gondor army could get get cut off from Minas Tirith and the Orcs can't get a lot of reinforcements across the river. Soooo, the obvious battle plan is to send out 100-200 riders and perform a cavalry charge on the ruins xD Not sure who comes up with that shit, but it's hilariously stupid. (other examples would be the Mumakil scene, the "defend the gate" scene and so on...) | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5714 Posts
On December 19 2014 23:00 IAmWithStupid wrote: Don't want to repeat all points above about this movie, so will say only this: the moment with Sauron and the Nine standing by his side is orgasmic at least. I want a wallpaper with that frame. Truly the one part of the entire story I was 100% invested in and wanted more screen time with. They could've done an entire movie just dedicated to Sauron, where he came from and where he goes and I would be happier than I was with this movie now... So glad they talk about the other rings given to the Elves, Dwarfs and Humans, sad they didn't say the rest regarding the 1 ring though. But we pretty much alrdy know that. Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies 7/10 If you didn't read the books and could enjoy the movie for what it is. A giant climax to end the trilogy with nothing but pure action basically, then you will enjoy the movie. Albeit if you can glaze over some loopholes and don't go thinking too far into them... | ||
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Merany
France890 Posts
Main grief is just too many battles and close to 0 story lines. A few very good moments though, Smaug is still enormous, the battle between the nine and Saroumane / Elrond is damn epic. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
The fighting scenes were great and epic, sure. But there were some moments were I expected something to happen that never quite did. + Show Spoiler + In random order: So multiple times thes talk about this 2nd orc army arriving, but we only get the bats and about "100 orc mercenenaries". Did I miss something? Is this just the german version? Beorn just drops off an eagle and never seen again. Similar for radagast. Thranduil gets knocked off his mount, apparently facing real danger alone, outnumbered? Nope, not even worthy to fight an individual enemy. Greedy laketown coward tries to sneak through the battle, never to be seen again. Nydus worms, just a cameo? Battle is over, but apparently noone cares what the dwarfs and humans do now. Saruman, Elrond and Galadriel scene was great, but if it would have better if there was at least a little follow-up later in the film. I would probably watch the LOTR trilogy 3 times more before i give this another try. | ||
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Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On December 22 2014 07:50 Mafe wrote: + Show Spoiler + Battle is over, but apparently noone cares what the dwarfs and humans do now. Saruman, Elrond and Galadriel scene was great, but if it would have better if there was at least a little follow-up later in the film. I agree with both of these points... + Show Spoiler + particularly how much they ramped up the importance of the Arkenstone-it somehow 'bestows kingship' whatever that means and then it gets dropped and never mentioned again. | ||
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Alcathous
Netherlands219 Posts
Some attempts at creative combat, but really if movies were novels I would just skip the fighting parts. For this movie not a lot would remain. And even if you like combat scenes, they were so unrealistic so blatantly copied CGI, if you know something about actual ancient or medieval warfare, it would come over as 'stupid'. Not to mention the sheer and shocking absence of fear of death. Not to mention the viewer wouldn't have any link with anyone fighting as the people fighting only get introduced right when they are about to fight. Also, the inflation of how many orcs the heroes can kill is huge. In Fellowship, Gimli, Legolas, Boromor and Aragon could take on a band of orcs. In Hobbit 3 the good guys can just move through an army of orcs and kill any orc they can touch. In Tolkien's book, Aragon, Gimli and Legolas were heroes because they had strong personalities. They were also excellent fighters, but nowhere near as supernatural as in the movies. That is reserved for Maiar. I expect the Tolkien estate to be very pissed off. They were mad at the nature of the LotR trilogy already. Of course they do get 7.5% of the profits of the movie. But for that Hobbit 3 needs to be the first movie ever to (officially) make a profit because so far even the highest grossing movies have only lost money and no one ever got a percentage of the profit of any movie... "They gutted the book, making an action movie for 15-25 year olds. And it seems that The Hobbit will be of the same ilk. Tolkien became...devoured by his popularity and absorbed by the absurdity of the time. The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialisation has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: to turn my head away." | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
"If this is love, then why does it hurt so much?" "Cuz' it's real.." Peter Jackson has to be one of the worst hacks ever to accidentally make something brilliant (Heavenly Creatures, LotR), all his other movies are in some ways an affront to good filmmaking. | ||
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