EPT[Movie] The Hobbit Trilogy - Page 86
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Erasme
Bahamas15897 Posts
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HolydaKing
21251 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + The action and fighting was pretty nice in 3D. It started very cool with Smaug attacking. Him dying so quickly and lame was to be expected since it's the same in the book afaik. I'd rate it a 7.5 or so. There were numerous things which made the film worse than it should have been. Mostly it felt totally dragged, the last 30 minutes were pretty boring. Also Legolas was so OP that it was just laughable. Could've let Tauriel just die when she was in lethal danger, would've been better and would have made Legolas miss some ridicolous stunts.. 2 movies would have been enough. Maybe even one, but probably better two. | ||
Falling
Canada11212 Posts
I just looked at the word count. The Hobbit is around 95K words, Ender's Game was 100k. The film adaption of Ender's Game felt super truncated. I watched a number of reviewers that had never read Ender's Game that said it felt like there was a lot more to the story that just felt missing. One film for the The Hobbit would have felt the same way and I would have appreciated that even less then getting three films. They crammed 1977 The Hobbit into 77 minutes, but you blink once and you've suddenly skipped two chapters. (And that's with the silly sounding, 70's folk Adventure song.) The break neck speed was disconcerting to me. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
They certainly could have done less, even with the "cashgrab" theory the three movies didnt have to be over 2 hours long, but the issue was definatelly not lack of content. | ||
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Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
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Striker.superfreunde
Germany1118 Posts
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Philozovic
France1676 Posts
Too much action everywhere at the same time and no scenario, no dialogue no nothing but ork dropping like flies (aren't they supposed to be elite soliders ? ...) and Jesus II aka legolas. + Show Spoiler + Smaug dying in 2 minutes I really felt peter jackson tried to hard to make LOTR 2 and not the hobbit. That was sad, I really liked LOTR | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
- cliche - embarrassing - cheap - cheesy - boring - bad There were multiple scenes in this movie, similar to the other 2 hobbit movies, where I was embarrassed to be there and embarrassed for the actors on screen. Also, the 64FPS looks FUCKING HORRIBLE. Makes the bad CGi stand out more and makes everything look like a PBS special. For me the original trilogy are good enough to be in the same tier as the original Star Wars movies. These hobbit movies then are only marginally better than ep 1-3. There were some individual good scenes spread out among garbage. Fun thing to do for people who will still see this movie (save your money tho seriously): Count how many times a character is saved "At the last second." My guess the number is 8 or 9. The ONLY positives I take from the movie are the 90 seconds Smaug is actually talking and the last few scenes in the shire (ended much better than the original trilogy in this respect imo). Edit: Cinema Sins just released their Honest Trailers for the Desolation of Smaug. I think it sums up a lot of the problems with the films. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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KwarK
United States41637 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Overall, I'd say it's a better action movie than crap like Transformers, but I wouldn't call 5 Armies a good movie. Also, Legolas still sucks. | ||
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + - Fuck those eagles are getting old, the solution to every problem im middle earth - What the hell was the point of that Alfred guy? did the movie need a slapstick level comedy? - Peter Jackson really is the master of idiotic battle strategies. First the mighty Warleader Azog is like, hey I have a perfect view of whats going on, the elves and the dwarfs are going to kill each other, Perfect time to attack! Then the dwarfs are forming a shield wall and the elves, instead of standing back and shooting arrows (heard they are quite good at that) decide to run over the backs of the dwarf battle line jump over the shield wall and just randomly charge the orcs. Then they are like impressed with Azogs masterful cunning strategy of "omg one army is engaging us, while another army comes up from the "North"" - 2 hours later when the first battle is over and from the exact same direction the first army came from. - Can we please stop with the Legolas battle scences? - That random Bard makeshift ballista dragon kill scene had me facepalm so hard - Scenes involving Thranduil... like him telling Legolas to go find that impressive son of Arathorn... I'm not that great with my LOTR lore anymore, but I'm pretty sure Aragorn couldn't have been more than 10 years old by that time. Also, that "love" talk with Tauriel was cringey. - There is a perfectly good story involving Dol Guldur in the book, why do you need to make up a random weird ass story that makes no sense and it's not like you needed to cut stuff from the book like in LOTR. was it just to have Christopher Lee perform some martial arts? I could probably go on for a while, but to sum it up: fuck this movie | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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Falling
Canada11212 Posts
On December 19 2014 03:45 Nesto wrote: + Show Spoiler + - Fuck those eagles are getting old, the solution to every problem im middle earth + Show Spoiler + Have you read The Hobbit recently? Because if so, you ought to have gone in expecting eagles. I can't imagine doing a Hobbit adaptation and NOT having them in the last battle. "The Eagles! The Eagles! The Eagles are coming" is one of those iconic moments in The Hobbit. That along with "In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit." Might as well cut "No. I am your father." Besides, it is intrisinically tied to Tolkien's ideas of Eucatastrophe. I do think there is legitmate cause for irritation that is the result of splitting the Hobbit into three- just the way it is structured 50% Jackson's Tolkien films end with eagles. Whereas had the original structure stood, the first eagle rescue would've been buried in the back 2/3rds of the first Hobbit film and they would've ended after or during the Mirkwood Elves adventure. By making that the climatic battle, the Eagles loom larger than the ought to in that particular story. Furthermore, there is the running problem of the Moth-Eagle taxi service that began as the result of having only one film to tell the Fellowship of the Ring. Cutting Radagast from Fellowship has had a ripple effect in the rest of the films. But I wonder were the Eagles THE solution or were they an uplift in a dark hour (Eucatastrophe). For instance, in the Return of the King (film) they show up and help, but are not the solution. Had Gollum not won the fight, Frodo would have failed entirely and even the newly arrived Eagles would have been of no lasting help. Similarly, in The Hobbit the Eagles arrive unlooked for and assist, but there is still a brutal battle and it took Beorn to rescue Thorin and crush Bolg and his bodyguard. I have not seen it, but do the Eagles help in a similar fashion? Do they win the victory or do they simply help? On December 19 2014 03:45 Nesto wrote: + Show Spoiler + - Can we please stop with the Legolas battle scences? + Show Spoiler + Here, I likely agree. I was (and still am) on board with integrating Legolas into the plot as he reasonably would have been there being the son of the king of Mirkwood. However, in the actual exectution, he has dominated the screen too much. I had hoped for a more subdued, background role as a general- I like the conflicting perspective between Thranduil and Tauriel with Legolas in the middle... but he tends to hog the limelight in the battles. On December 19 2014 03:45 Nesto wrote: + Show Spoiler + - There is a perfectly good story involving Dol Guldur in the book, why do you need to make up a random weird ass story that makes no sense and it's not like you needed to cut stuff from the book like in LOTR. was it just to have Christopher Lee perform some martial arts? + Show Spoiler + Do you mean this: "if he had known that news of this had reached Gandalf far away and given him great anxiety, and that he was in fact finishing his other business (which does not come into this tale) and getting ready to search of Thorin's company." Or this: "It was in this way that he learnt where Gandalf had been to; for he overheard the words of the wizard to Elrond. It appeared that Gandalf had been to a great council of the white wizards, masters of lore and good magic; and that they had at last driven the Necromancer from his dark hold in the south Mirkwood." Because that's pretty sparse, no matter how look at it. Ugh. This is such an annoying way to discuss a story that is 77 years old. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
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Falling
Canada11212 Posts
Fair enough point though. However, I do think there is a difference between a sudden turn from defeat (the eucastastrophe), which does not deny sorrow and failure, but does deny final defeat. (Note in most of Tolkien's work every victory comes at great cost. Yes, he does not have the head count of GRRM, but the loss is felt in a variety of ways.) Versus Deus ex machina which doesn't fit with the story, comes from the outside and neatly ties up loose ends. For instance, in Hippolytus the entire story revolves around a series of bad conclusions originating from step-mother Phaedra being cursed by the gods to fall in love with step-son Hippolytus. Phaedra commits suicide, but father Theseus figures Hippolytus raped Phaedra and so Hippoloytus is exiled. Series of unfortunate events and Hippolytus lays dying, but his father still thinks he is to blame. Then out of nowhere, the god Artemis pops in and says: You fool, You were wrong Theseus. Your son was innocent. The god Artemis reunites the father-son before Hippolytus dies and then having solved the entire drama in one fell swoop, it's: "big gulps, huh? Welp. See you later." and he waltzes off the stage. Euripides seems rather hamfisted, but I really don't see the Eagles functioning as even a soft version of that. I personally do not see the Eagles as an outside force, but something that arises naturally from the story. They were established earlier as a isolationist force, but enemies of orcs and wargs, they arrive to assist, but do not leap from the outside to tie everything up. They are part of the victory over the orcs, but not the sudden sweep to victory, nor do they resolve some of the other major ongoing issues + Show Spoiler + (the breakdown between Thorin and Bilbo, in addition to Thorin's own pride.) Gandalf arriving with Eomer's horsemen (film) or Erkenbrand's infantry (book) at Helm's Deep has Eucatastrophic elements as well as it is a sudden turn from complete disaster. The Corsairs of Umbar arriving at Minas Tirith to stem the Rohirrim's attack looks like the ultimate defeat and also makes a sudden turn when Aragorn leads out the men of south Gondor. A sudden turn, but not deux ex machina- the battle is long and many still fall as recounted in the post-battle songs. It is a common thread throughout Tolkien's works, but I think it's a mistake to mistake it as simply deux ex machina. *sorry, I write too much about this stuff. But I like thinking about Tolkien and this is one of the few venues on TL that affords even minor amounts of Tolkien discussion. (Even if it largely amounts to comments consisting of 'Hobbit movie #___ sucks.') | ||
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KwarK
United States41637 Posts
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Hoenicker
243 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
One of the better reviews I've seen. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On December 19 2014 18:14 KwarK wrote: I felt the story really lacked any kind of conclusion. I can't be the only one thinking "so wtf happened with Erebor?" at the end of it. We have the king dead, both his nephews dead, we know that he has a cousin but we don't know if it's a maternal cousin or a paternal cousin, is the line of Thror now extinct? Do the dwarfs move in or do the Iron Hill ones go back home? Do the men move in? Thorin died before he got a chance to tell everyone he had decided not to be a cunt anymore so as far as everyone is concerned the conflict between elves and dwarfs is still going on, the elf king probably still wants those gems etc. Instead we get answers to the most pointless question like "were other Hobbits auctioning off Bilbo's shit?". Well, explaining the book lore doesn't excuse the faults of the movies, but if you're curious... Dain is now King of Erebor. After the deaths of Thorin, Fili, and Kili, the line of Thror is extinguished, and the crown passes to their cousin (descended from Thror's brother). A deal is arranged between Dain, Bard, and Thranduil. This deal is substantially similar to the deal originally proposed before everyone nearly went to war out of Thorin's madness: Bilbo gets shafted, Bard gets a 14th of the gold (although in the book his claim is based on it being the gold originally taken from Dale by Smaug), Thranduil gets his gems, and Thorin ends up with the Arkenstone (in his grave). The Dwarves move in to Erebor, reestablishing the kingdom. I'm not sure if he kept the Iron Hills; you don't hear much about them afterwards. At the least they were eclipsed by the newly prosperous kingom of Erebor, which was able to establish friendly enough relations with its neighbors. Balin set out from Erebor to reestablish Moria at some point, and was killed by the goblins there. Gimli and his father Gloin were Dain's representatives at the Council of Elrond. Bard becomes king of the reestablished Dale, and his son rules it after him, and his son after him. Bard's grandson participates in the War of the Ring alongside Dain, defending Erebor and Dale from Easterling and Orc attack. Both are slain in battle, with Dain dying defending his friend and ally's body. Erebor is able to survive the attack, and is instrumental in rebuilding the fractured cities and strongholds of the free peoples of Middle Earth. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 19 2014 09:34 Falling wrote: + Show Spoiler + But I wonder were the Eagles THE solution or were they an uplift in a dark hour (Eucatastrophe). For instance, in the Return of the King (film) they show up and help, but are not the solution. Had Gollum not won the fight, Frodo would have failed entirely and even the newly arrived Eagles would have been of no lasting help. Similarly, in The Hobbit the Eagles arrive unlooked for and assist, but there is still a brutal battle and it took Beorn to rescue Thorin and crush Bolg and his bodyguard. I have not seen it, but do the Eagles help in a similar fashion? Do they win the victory or do they simply help? Here, I likely agree. I was (and still am) on board with integrating Legolas into the plot as he reasonably would have been there being the son of the king of Mirkwood. However, in the actual exectution, he has dominated the screen too much. I had hoped for a more subdued, background role as a general- I like the conflicting perspective between Thranduil and Tauriel with Legolas in the middle... but he tends to hog the limelight in the battles. + Show Spoiler + The Eagles' role is probably smaller than in RotK. Perhaps it's because they've already been established, but the bats they kill just aren't presented as that much of a threat. Especially if Legolas can just hang on all of them. The Goblins are pretty irrelevant too, for that matter. Speaking of more Legolas dumbfuckery, he takes Beorn's role, basically. Beorn is in the movie for like 3 seconds, and nowhere near Bolg. It's dumb. The more I think about the movie, the more annoyed I get. Dain's role is pretty minimal and he also seems to be a fairly shoddy CGI render in part of it. Helm's Deep was such a fantastically executed scene (I know war history professors who discuss it/love it for how "realistically" it's executed), whereas this was a bunch of illogical crap for the sake of looking cool. Someone mentioned it earlier, but the elves jumping over the shield wall to fight hand-to-hand rather than sending volleys is so dumb. Bringing in eucatastrophe is a good point because I never really felt it here. The second orc army has very little impact. I think in LotR, parts of the story were modified to make for a better movie experience. In the Hobbit, the stuff that's modified is worse for a movie than the original book. | ||
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