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On November 08 2014 04:47 yrba1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2014 03:38 LegalLord wrote:On November 08 2014 03:03 yrba1 wrote:On November 07 2014 21:12 LegalLord wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think Kuvira is actually going to find a way to fight against the Avatar State. Kuvira looked pretty shaken by Korra's use of it - she definitely didn't have the confidence she had at the beginning of the battle. I doubt she would just attack again without thinking up a way to counter it.
I really liked the way that Varrick played on Baatar's inferiority complex. It was just a small quip, but I think it was definitely one of his better moments. + Show Spoiler +She'll probably use mercury like the one she was bending with the end of the episode. + Show Spoiler +I thought that that was just one of the pieces of training metal that Korra used to learn metalbending. + Show Spoiler +Either way, she has a trump card against Korra. The mercury bending scene just seems to foreshadow it.
+ Show Spoiler +It's not mercury. It's a meteorite which has special properties, thus making it easier to bend. Quote: "During Korra's stay at Zaofu, Suyin Beifong offered to train Korra in the art of metalbending. Suyin started Korra on a meteorite as a beginner, who quickly adjusted to it and learned to mold it into various forms." Source
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On November 07 2014 22:03 Spaylz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thinking back on it, the perception that Korra's Avatar State is weaker than Aang's could come from the fact that the opponents she faces were either extraordinary, or benefited from special circumstances.
As it stands, with that last battle in mind, it seems clear that no human can match the power of the Avatar State. So, looking back... Korra hadn't unlocked the Avatar State when she was fighting Amon, so irrelevant there. She used it against UnaVaatu, which in theory should be on par with her in terms of power. And she used it against Zaheer, but was suffering from the poison.
Hmm... I don't know. Overall, I'm still feeling that Korra's Avatar State is weaker, mostly because Aang's displays of power were just astonishing. Maybe we have that coming in Book 4 for Korra though, I'm definitely feeling it.
Also, could we maybe see the poison being reintroduced somehow? I mean, it is metal... meaning Kuvira could bend it into Korra somehow. Perhaps she will cooperate with the Red Lotus to procure the poison for herself, and counter the Avatar State that way. Thus revealing her true evil side to the world, with everyone turning against her. It could even be how Zaheer is featured back in the plot?
I don't think it's likely, might sound a bit too tinfoil... but I personally think the poison might come into play somehow. It's the only known counter to the Avatar State, other than blackmailing Korra somehow.
+ Show Spoiler +Part of both. Korra in Avatar mode only fought spirits who are relatively immune, Avatar Unalaag, Zahir while poisoned (which she could have bent out of herself) and Kuvira who got almost beaten.
That being said she lost every single time she used it. Her mastering of the avatar state should be greater than Unalaags (who had only one element) and she could have won the fight against Zahir easily.
She also never displayed the raw destructive power that Aang displayed multiple times.
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THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS
Well the OP wasnt lying. huehuehue
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Kuvira sure does make very liberal use of the terms "generous," "reasonable," "fair" etc.
I really don't like what they've done with firebending though. Back in TLA, firebending also gave you the ability to break through stuff - Zuko broke shackles once, and fire always had the potential to break rock. LoK fire is just fire, and is stopped by any old rock wall.
+ Show Spoiler +Also, I think Suyin made a bad call - the army looks like it would be pretty loyal to Kuvira even if she was in trouble.
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United States5834 Posts
Earth should be able to stop fire it is the strongest defensive element, maybe with lighting bending you can break earth reliably but not fire. Kuvira is a master earth bender so she should be able to make earth walls that stop fire just like King Bumi was able to stop comet enhanced fire benders with earth walls. Heck even Ozai the strongest fire bender enhanced by the comet couldn't get through Aang's earth ball that was not made with the Avatar state
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fire is laughable in korra... where are the fireblades, and the sheer force of the heat, yea sure you dodged the flamestrike, but should be affected by the friggn heat xD there is no collateral damage, airbending seems more powerful xD
well the new bending is cool, the old has gotten really lame so some win some lose...
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I was impressed that + Show Spoiler +Jinora and Opal were able to fend off Kuvira's entire freakin' army for as long as they did. Also cool that their combination bending is fairly unique in the avatar-verse, with other disciplines being mostly individualistic, especially in combat.
But yea, RIP fire.
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United States5834 Posts
Was heat a problem in TLA? I don't get these criticisms about LoK when they also apply to TLA. The Avatar world is not realistic in the damage the elements would do. Toph juggles people with earth bending when that would break their ribs and Aang dodged Zuko's fire bending at close range all the time and was never affected by heat.
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On November 08 2014 03:20 Kinie wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The issues with Korra are now either PTSD, Raava fighting back/not being in tune with Korra or a mixture of both. Assuming its just PTSD then it probably is her fear of dying when in the Avatar state because of her right with Unalaaq back in season 2, and how she broke the cycle the first time. I don't know how she will overcome that fear... Maybe its just lack of confidence in herself? Like logically she knows she can do these things and has the power to do the right thing, but she needs to be confident in her own abilities as Korra the bender, before she can be confident in her job as the Avatar.
What we will end up seeing is Korra beating Kuvira in the end in a straight up duel WITHOUT her going into the Avatar state, and only enters it to diffuse/redirect the spirit vine energy nuke that is Kuvira's "fuck it let's blow up the world" plan.
+ Show Spoiler +
I think it's a confidence thing. There's a reason she started fighting in underground bending matches, and it's not because she was feeling great about herself...
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At the very least TLA included many events showing the peril of firebending because it was highly plot-relevant. Katara and Toph getting burnt and severely hampered by the pain, the air nomads getting wiped out, Hei Bai's forest getting leveled, Ba Sing Se's wall getting punctured in one shot, Ozai's fleet easily blackening immense swaths of the Earth Kingdom, Ozai himself brute-force incinerating through Aang's rock shell around 4 minutes into TLA's last episode... all these events reinforced the overarching narrative of fire as dangerous and volatile. Of course some of this owed itself to Sozin's Comet, but the rest was necessary in order to frame the Fire Nation as a formidable enemy.
LoK explores a different narrative, so fire no longer needs to be dangerous, or even flashy. The only consequential firebending we ever see are two shots of Mako's lightning. Gone are the days when fire can wound the greatest earthbender in the world such that she needs crawl home... by accident. I miss that fire, but I can accept that that fire is not what LoK is about.
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I am glad they still don't have korra 100% recovered (had a feeling this would be the case regardless). Just glad it was confirmed as I would have been ticked if Korra had lost in the avatar state otherwise.
Also I can't believe how similar this season is to star wars (or at least I see a lot of it, especially when kuviere said "I won't ask you to do anything I won't").
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I heard the writers had a lot of inspiration from Star Wars when writing this season. The soldier design was also based off of the Stormtrooper concept.
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United States5834 Posts
Yeah fire isn't the main point of LoK and it would be really lazy to redo the same themes of fire dangerous again. The main users of fire on the show Korra and Mako have mastered fire bending to a proficient level since the first episode so they don't go around burning forests or hurting their friends on accident. Fire was the villain so it did a lot of bad things, but I don't see how Ozai vs Aang's rock shell can be seen as impressive for Ozai when he was enhanced by the comet and had trouble breaking the shell.
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Keep in mind that Ozai was getting more power from the comet and it took him going full blast flamethrower on the earth shell for a good 3-5 minutes before it got to the point where he could blast Aang out of it, plus the fact that Aang is basically in an oven for that entire time.
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And I think it's fair to say that Aang would have been defeated right there if not for the Avatar State. He was putting his all into that shell.
Iroh, on the other hand, blasted through a stone wall with a fireball when they entered Ba Sing Se, so it clearly does have quite a substantial explosive power. Maybe if Ozai used a more directed attack like that, it would have worked better. He seemed more content to just shoot fireballs randomly at the shell.
There really aren't that many firebender vs earthbender battles in TLA either. But Zuko vs the earthbenders in Zuko Alone was a pretty good example of using fire to break through earth walls. So was Azula breaking the earth cuffs in the Day of Black Sun episode. The flames in LoK are thinner and less potent, which basically defeats the purpose of firebending.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On November 08 2014 14:39 LegalLord wrote:
And I think it's fair to say that Aang would have been defeated right there if not for the Avatar State. He was putting his all into that shell.
Iroh, on the other hand, blasted through a stone wall with a fireball when they entered Ba Sing Se, so it clearly does have quite a substantial explosive power. Maybe if Ozai used a more directed attack like that, it would have worked better. He seemed more content to just shoot fireballs randomly at the shell.
There really aren't that many firebender vs earthbender battles in TLA either. But Zuko vs the earthbenders in Zuko Alone was a pretty good example of using fire to break through earth walls. So was Azula breaking the earth cuffs in the Day of Black Sun episode. The flames in LoK are thinner and less potent, which basically defeats the purpose of firebending.
Aang was also fighting too defensively against Ozai because of his internal conflict of not wanting to "finish him". Korra is much more aggressive. If Aang fought using his bending prowess with Korra's attitude I think he could have defeated Ozai without the Avatar State.
But yes I think he would have lost without the Avatar State too.
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+ Show Spoiler +
Am I the only one who thought Kuvira's last statement at the end was intended to foreshadow that she will demonstrate the weapon on Zou Fu because of Su and her sons?
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Ehhh.. I agree with the general impression that firebending is less of a threat. It is a plot device, because fire was just "the enemy" in TLA, even to Aang, seeing as he was afraid of it and reluctant to use it (the element itself).
However, it hasn't become irrelevant. Firebending is by and large what Korra uses the most. It often comprises her first blow, and at least 50% of her attacks.
What I will agree with, is that airbending seems to be by far the most powerful bending, especially with the showcasing of Zaheer's breathbending technique. That was already sort of the case in TLA, because Aang rarely used the other elements when not in the Avatar State, and his airbending was enough to defeat almost anyone. But now, it seems to be even more powerful. Korra used airbending to defeat Amon, and he couldn't do anything about it. Air is also the first element used to subdue Vaatu, both by Wan and Korra. She again used it to "kick" Unalaq through the spirit portal, and well, Book 3 was all about airbending. And in this final fight, it is what she uses in the Avatar State against Kuvira, and again she's powerless to fight it.
It makes sense, seeing as air is all around no matter where you are, and that it's hard to do anything when you're being carried off like a bunch of leaves. It's also the one bending art that people have sort of forgotten how to fight, so that matters as well.
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On November 08 2014 17:59 Foblos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Am I the only one who thought Kuvira's last statement at the end was intended to foreshadow that she will demonstrate the weapon on Zou Fu because of Su and her sons?
+ Show Spoiler +I think it will be more like "look at what we have done, as a symbol of pure freedom we will tear this massive wall down
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+ Show Spoiler +Eh, I actually found Kuvira more sympathetic than the good guys in the last episode, like it's kinda reasonable to arrest people when they try to break into your camp and kill you and I don't see how Korra saw that part as unfair. Also she just simply won 1v1 so yeah... and then they also don't abide by the terms for the fight set by Korra and Kuvira.
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EPT
