EPTEven better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more.
[Movie] Ender's Game - Page 15
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more. | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective. Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more. Well part of the point was that he was the first to notice... Everyone else was treating it like a room. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:13 Ryalnos wrote: Well part of the point was that he was the first to notice... Everyone else was treating it like a room. ...yes? Maybe I missed something in this thread, but...is there anything implying that he isn't the first to change perspective in the movie concepts? | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On April 08 2013 12:49 WolfintheSheep wrote: ...yes? Maybe I missed something in this thread, but...is there anything implying that he isn't the first to change perspective in the movie concepts? I think the point is that by making a spherical battle room, Ender's strategy seems less brilliant. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 09 2013 01:30 Xenocide_Knight wrote: I think the point is that by making a spherical battle room, Ender's strategy seems less brilliant. I don't see how. The whole "brilliance" was in mentally changing his perspective. The shape of the room was completely irrelevant. Even in the book, Graff was moving upside through the transport shuttle before they got to Battle School, so it's not like changing orientations was a novel thought. And when other squads started to adopt the feet first method, it's almost explicitly stated (I think it was Dink?) that the mentality is that they're lying on their backs to fight. | ||
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Tor
Canada231 Posts
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
On April 08 2013 05:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Let's be fair, Xenocide suffers from the standard drop-off in quality that is often found in the second book of a trilogy. I confess, when I first went through the series years ago I was unable to get through Xenocide on the first reading. I disagree completely. Speaker and Xenocide were both hard for me to start, but once I ended up in the middle of it, I had to finish. Seriously, finish Xenocide if you haven't. If you think it's not going to catch your attention, you have to have no heart or brain. For those who have, or who care to know what I'm talking about: + Show Spoiler + When they fly the ship "outside" of the universe, and it splits Ender into a younger Peter and Valentine, leaving him lifeless almost. But in a way, he has learned how move on to a second or what the pequinos would refer to as the "third life by being the versions of Peter and Valentine he saw when he was younger, like the pequinos will be planted as trees, or "Fathers" to the other pequinos still stuck in the second life. I could be mistaken, but Xenocide is also where the colony starts to want to kill the pequinos, where one of Novinha's children leads a mob into killing a lot of them, because they believe that ALL of the pequinos decided to kill one of the other humans. Seriously though, Xenocide is really good, and pretty important to what happens. Children of the Mindis short for a reason though. | ||
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une_certaine_verve
342 Posts
On April 15 2013 00:01 hoby2000 wrote: I disagree completely. Speaker and Xenocide were both hard for me to start, but once I ended up in the middle of it, I had to finish. You've almost persuaded me to give it a go. | ||
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Reborn58
United States238 Posts
On April 15 2013 00:01 hoby2000 wrote: I disagree completely. Speaker and Xenocide were both hard for me to start, but once I ended up in the middle of it, I had to finish. Seriously, finish Xenocide if you haven't. If you think it's not going to catch your attention, you have to have no heart or brain. For those who have, or who care to know what I'm talking about: + Show Spoiler + When they fly the ship "outside" of the universe, and it splits Ender into a younger Peter and Valentine, leaving him lifeless almost. But in a way, he has learned how move on to a second or what the pequinos would refer to as the "third life by being the versions of Peter and Valentine he saw when he was younger, like the pequinos will be planted as trees, or "Fathers" to the other pequinos still stuck in the second life. I could be mistaken, but Xenocide is also where the colony starts to want to kill the pequinos, where one of Novinha's children leads a mob into killing a lot of them, because they believe that ALL of the pequinos decided to kill one of the other humans. Seriously though, Xenocide is really good, and pretty important to what happens. Children of the Mindis short for a reason though. I have to agree with Carnivorous Sheep. Xenocide has some serious flaws. It gets to the point of ridiculousness about halfway through, and is a difficult read for many reasons. It is slow and has some serious plot flaws - along with the spoiler you included. It's almost like OSC just said "Shit, I don't know where to go from here....I guess I'll just completely change the entire premise of the books". It felt like it didn't belong and like it was a shortcut to get to an ending. It felt cheap, and that doesn't fit with Ender's Game or Speaker. I actually thought Speaker was BETTER than Ender's Game. It was such a great book, and Xenocide left me seriously disappointed and I didn't even go on to read any more of the books because of it. | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
On April 15 2013 01:25 Reborn58 wrote: I have to agree with Carnivorous Sheep. Xenocide has some serious flaws. It gets to the point of ridiculousness about halfway through, and is a difficult read for many reasons. It is slow and has some serious plot flaws - along with the spoiler you included. It's almost like OSC just said "Shit, I don't know where to go from here....I guess I'll just completely change the entire premise of the books". It felt like it didn't belong and like it was a shortcut to get to an ending. It felt cheap, and that doesn't fit with Ender's Game or Speaker. I actually thought Speaker was BETTER than Ender's Game. It was such a great book, and Xenocide left me seriously disappointed and I didn't even go on to read any more of the books because of it. What do you mean change the premise of the entire series? + Show Spoiler + The Ender's Game series has always had the theme of "forgiveness for our sins" type of ordeal. how did it completely change? Ender was able to revive the formics along with stopping the xenocide of another race. In return, he was given eternal life through space travel and splitting himself into two different people. I don't think Card "shortcutted" anything. I think he wrote an extremely philosophical book that gives you a sense of ease when you realize Ender, the original speaker, can finally die happy knowing he has ultimately undone his xenocide, and will live even longer through two spirits he created by being outside the universe. Not to mention that Jane's situation is also resolved in that she wanted to be human, to be a part of Ender's life as his lover, but ultimately was friend zoned. But she found Miro, and I believe was given Valentine's body (the younger valentine) to be her host. Ender also saved her. I am honestly confused where the shortcut is here | ||
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Reborn58
United States238 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + He basically just goes "Oh, there's no way out that fits within the story- so now all of a sudden in a few days we can create the technology to exist outside of time....annnnnnnd problem solved." There's more than one way to skin a cat, I just feel like he could have done all of the philosophical storylines and wrapped up the loose ends without basically introducing something I found to be completely unbelievable and cheap. I was unable to suspend belief, which I had easily been able to do with the series prior to this twist. It was not well written, just my opinion. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
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czylu
477 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:10 WolfintheSheep wrote: To be fair to the spherical concept, it actually enhances Ender's Zero-G philosophy rather than annul it. With a cubical (rectangular?) battle field you still have multiple frames of reference to orient your planes. When you lose the walls and corners, it becomes even more futile to try and maintain an up-down perspective. Even better, the only real reference points become the two gates, making "The enemy's gate is down" just as symbolic, if not more. Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't there a whole few paragraphs dedicated to the War Room, and that how it was physically impossible for it to be zero g and most likely designed from bugger technology? As for xenocide, it was shit book. The great thing about ender's game and speaker for the dead is that those 2 books can stand on their own. They had their own themes and had their own purpose. Where as xenocide(and every ender related book afterwards) are books that more or less rely on their predecessors to maintain interest. No one is gonna pick of xenocide off of a book shelf and call it a good book, but a person who has never touched this series can pick up ender's game or speaker and still have a good time w/ it. This is probably the main reason why the first 2 got nebula and hugo awards, and everybook after has pretty much been ignored. + Show Spoiler + Also, when you get into the metaphysical bullshit, you realize the whole book is just a deus ex machina. | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
I gather then, that the books which deal with them (e.g. Xenocide) were in part a sort of Mormon apologetic, showing how the 'philotes' could fit into a scientific picture. There's definitely other Mormon themes (imo reflected in emphases on family & having children, and even colonizing planets across the universe). | ||
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green.at
Austria1459 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=154169734761617 Preview of a preview, but I'm ok with it. I'm getting more hyped each day, but I fear that it will be my undoing. | ||
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chang40h5
4 Posts
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Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
On May 04 2013 00:00 Requizen wrote: Short preview of the trailer in this video https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=154169734761617 Preview of a preview, but I'm ok with it. I'm getting more hyped each day, but I fear that it will be my undoing. Well it looks pretty sick so far. I'm all excited now | ||
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