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On September 03 2015 05:15 Forikorder wrote:
okay fine, all the massive amounts of monsters suddenly apearing has absolutely nothing to do with Griffith despite it all happening once he apeared and the tower place getting so crazy chaotic during his birth
It happened after Ganishka was slained by the sword of dimension, once again. And Griffith was more or less responsible for it, but that doesn't mean the fact he dies or anything will remove the monsters. Before the merging, only apostles were roaming.
Now we got not only apostles, but also monsters/legends coming from the second plane, and absolutely nothing in the manga says in any shape of form, that removing Griffith will stop the merging. If anything, Skull Knight or his sword could be the answer - and I doubt it.
You just jump from "Griffith is involved in this" to "if he's dead, problem solved".
And about Slan, she could enter the human place of existence because there was a weakness, and it was stopped because of the sword of dimension (or resonance) once again. You should start to see a pattern there.
There was a mention about the 5th God Hand being the first step to the worlds merging, not a lot of details about it, it could totally be baiting the sword of resonance to the right spot at the right time. And killing Griffith right now would only end his mortal vessel, Griffith right now is clearly not Femto, so if you kill his physical body, there are still 5 God Hands. Proof? Slan got kicked out badly and she just does not care. Griffith's body can't be his own body, it went from that frail body to Femto.
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On September 03 2015 05:24 nitram wrote:Guys need to read the first chapter  Guts was after apostles and didnt care about how many innocent people died in the process.
he didnt kill any innocents though
dude above:
did you completely forget about the tower where normal humans became monsters jsut because they were near Griffith being birthed?
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i am so hyped about this :D One of the best series I have ever read and being able to read it again makes me really happy. I wonder what Gutts is up to now
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On September 03 2015 06:38 ZeroCartin wrote:
i am so hyped about this :D One of the best series I have ever read and being able to read it again makes me really happy. I wonder what Gutts is up to now
On a boat yo
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On September 03 2015 05:15 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2015 03:54 Osmoses wrote:
That doesn't really prove a thing :p okay fine, all the massive amounts of monsters suddenly apearing has absolutely nothing to do with Griffith despite it all happening once he apeared and the tower place getting so crazy chaotic during his birth
How about you acknowledge the fact that the worlds merged and became fantasia due to the skull knight? The tower didn't happen because of Griffith per se, it was because of eggman, possibly also due to two branded people being together.
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On September 03 2015 07:00 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2015 06:38 ZeroCartin wrote:
i am so hyped about this :D One of the best series I have ever read and being able to read it again makes me really happy. I wonder what Gutts is up to now On a boat yo
Longest boat ride in the history of ever. Can't wait for the return trip, lol. Hope fairy king has teleportation magic or something.
Similar to ASoIaF I'm just hoping the author doesn't drop dead before finishing the story.
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On September 03 2015 06:31 Forikorder wrote:
did you completely forget about the tower where normal humans became monsters jsut because they were near Griffith being birthed?
Once again, I'm not saying Griffith does not influence the world around him, just that two worlds have merged, and he's not the direct reason it happened, neither him being killed will change the fact the two worlds have merged. Plus as far as I know, the Griffith we got now influence the apostles around him by making them mostly tame. If he was to lose his human self, the lower apostles would be free to go on a rampage once again.
Basically we got 3 kind of "monsters". First, the apostles, and all they need is a beherit. Sure, those are probably put into the first realm by the God Hands, but it was done before Femto. Second, the legends and creatures from another realms, that would disappear by making the merging stop, if that is even possible. And finally, the presence of a God Hand, that makes temporary mutations and stuff, not necessarly for worse, like we're seeing in Falconia (opposed to the tower).
Two of them are independant from Griffith's presence.
That's why I say you're mostly wrong, you start from something right but use that to draw a conclusion that does not consider all the options.
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On September 03 2015 03:33 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +So you are saying there has been no one who has been harmed by Gatts' actions when fighting demons?
purposely harmed by Gutts? no [
Them being harmed unintentionally is basically the definition of collateral damage as stated in the original post. You guys really are being (intentionally?) dense about this.
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On September 03 2015 05:15 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2015 03:54 Osmoses wrote:
That doesn't really prove a thing :p okay fine, all the massive amounts of monsters suddenly apearing has absolutely nothing to do with Griffith despite it all happening once he apeared and the tower place getting so crazy chaotic during his birth
The tower went crazy when gutts and caska stayed for too long, and when caska was in danger.
Griffith had very little influence on anything happening there.
The clerics became monsters cuz of the egg apostle. Griffith forced the new realm to happen, but he didn't do it.
The other godhand appeared after the trolls went crazy. The worlds were already merging.
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On September 04 2015 00:12 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2015 05:15 Forikorder wrote:On September 03 2015 03:54 Osmoses wrote:
That doesn't really prove a thing :p okay fine, all the massive amounts of monsters suddenly apearing has absolutely nothing to do with Griffith despite it all happening once he apeared and the tower place getting so crazy chaotic during his birth The tower went crazy when gutts and caska stayed for too long, and when caska was in danger. Griffith had very little influence on anything happening there. The clerics became monsters cuz of the egg apostle. Griffith forced the new realm to happen, but he didn't do it. The other godhand appeared after the trolls went crazy. The worlds were already merging.
no they werent, the exact opposite WAS happening the worlds moving farther apart as belief in the other world disapeared
just having 2 branded people close to each other draws in a bunch of monsters because they exist between the 2 worlds, Griffith technically does too except hes far more in the other world then Guts and Casca
and if anyone thinks its pure coincidence that he was born at the tower then i cant even discuss this further, he WANTED to be there thats why he was there
sure for now hes helping a small percentage of the population, but what after he becomes king and his dream is done? whats he gonna do then? how long until he grows bored and just kills every human
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On September 04 2015 11:39 Forikorder wrote:
sure for now hes helping a small percentage of the population, but what after he becomes king and his dream is done? whats he gonna do then? how long until he grows bored and just kills every human
How long until he grows bored once there isn't any human left? I guess once he'll be alone with apostles, he's gonna have a lot of fun times doing nothing, because that's clearly not boring. Plus, it would make Guts's job much easier if Griffith is an enemy of mankind.
Berserk would not be Berserk if Griffith is just an enemy and everyone cheers for Guts. I'd much prefer to see him struggle between his revenge and the greater good of mankind.
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You didn't understand me forikorder, what I believe is that Griffith has done very little yet, however the circumstances, the causality, forced everyone to do stuff to help his situation
Also noone said he was born at the tower by coincidence, stop imagining things when your points are wrong
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How long until he grows bored once there isn't any human left? I guess once he'll be alone with apostles, he's gonna have a lot of fun times doing nothing, because that's clearly not boring. Plus, it would make Guts's job much easier if Griffith is an enemy of mankind.
Berserk would not be Berserk if Griffith is just an enemy and everyone cheers for Guts. I'd much prefer to see him struggle between his revenge and the greater good of mankind.
if he goes bored after that he can always just return to outside time where the other godhands are
maybe you would prefer it if Guts was working against the greater good but too bad, hes not
You didn't understand me forikorder, what I believe is that Griffith has done very little yet, however the circumstances, the causality, forced everyone to do stuff to help his situation
Also noone said he was born at the tower by coincidence, stop imagining things when your points are wrong
so has he done very little or did he completely control the events at the tower to ensure his birth? which is it?
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On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
if he goes bored after that he can always just return to outside time where the other godhands are
Do you understand how/why a beherit works? Because it doesn't seem so.
On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
maybe you would prefer it if Guts was working against the greater good but too bad, hes not
Except I didn't say he was going to work against the greater good, please just read what people say.
I said it's likely that killing Griffith right now is going against the greater good of mankind (monsters/apostles free to rampage, Femto still alive anyway,...). So what you say just does not make sense at all.
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On September 05 2015 03:24 Lysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
if he goes bored after that he can always just return to outside time where the other godhands are Do you understand how/why a beherit works? Because it doesn't seem so. Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
maybe you would prefer it if Guts was working against the greater good but too bad, hes not Except I didn't say he was going to work against the greater good, please just read what people say. I said it's likely that killing Griffith right now is going against the greater good of mankind (monsters/apostles free to rampage, Femto still alive anyway,...). So what you say just does not make sense at all.
the Beherit works from FATE, whoever is meant to hold it will hold it at exactly the time there supposed to, if your not supposed to have it you will eventually lose it, if your meant to have it no matter what you do it will find its way back to you
the one who uses it doesnt really have a say in the matter, it was pre-ordained from long ago that the events would happen wether they actually sacrifice is a different story
the Beherits are the tools of the God Hands that they use to bestow power onto the chosen mortals]
and you have it backwards, Gutts killing Griffith is bad in the short term (possibly since we dont know how active he needs to be to keep Falconia safe) but overtime more good comes from killing him
so its a short term sacrifice FOR the greater good
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On September 05 2015 12:54 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2015 03:24 Lysteria wrote:On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
if he goes bored after that he can always just return to outside time where the other godhands are Do you understand how/why a beherit works? Because it doesn't seem so. On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
maybe you would prefer it if Guts was working against the greater good but too bad, hes not Except I didn't say he was going to work against the greater good, please just read what people say. I said it's likely that killing Griffith right now is going against the greater good of mankind (monsters/apostles free to rampage, Femto still alive anyway,...). So what you say just does not make sense at all. the Beherit works from FATE, whoever is meant to hold it will hold it at exactly the time there supposed to, if your not supposed to have it you will eventually lose it, if your meant to have it no matter what you do it will find its way back to you the one who uses it doesnt really have a say in the matter, it was pre-ordained from long ago that the events would happen wether they actually sacrifice is a different story the Beherits are the tools of the God Hands that they use to bestow power onto the chosen mortals] and you have it backwards, Gutts killing Griffith is bad in the short term (possibly since we dont know how active he needs to be to keep Falconia safe) but overtime more good comes from killing him so its a short term sacrifice FOR the greater good
I think the sword of the Skull Knight proves that the power of the Behelit is not absolute, they can be twisted to other purposes.
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On September 06 2015 09:56 LaughingTulkas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2015 12:54 Forikorder wrote:On September 05 2015 03:24 Lysteria wrote:On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
if he goes bored after that he can always just return to outside time where the other godhands are Do you understand how/why a beherit works? Because it doesn't seem so. On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
maybe you would prefer it if Guts was working against the greater good but too bad, hes not Except I didn't say he was going to work against the greater good, please just read what people say. I said it's likely that killing Griffith right now is going against the greater good of mankind (monsters/apostles free to rampage, Femto still alive anyway,...). So what you say just does not make sense at all. the Beherit works from FATE, whoever is meant to hold it will hold it at exactly the time there supposed to, if your not supposed to have it you will eventually lose it, if your meant to have it no matter what you do it will find its way back to you the one who uses it doesnt really have a say in the matter, it was pre-ordained from long ago that the events would happen wether they actually sacrifice is a different story the Beherits are the tools of the God Hands that they use to bestow power onto the chosen mortals] and you have it backwards, Gutts killing Griffith is bad in the short term (possibly since we dont know how active he needs to be to keep Falconia safe) but overtime more good comes from killing him so its a short term sacrifice FOR the greater good I think the sword of the Skull Knight proves that the power of the Behelit is not absolute, they can be twisted to other purposes.
all of them are used behelits though
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On September 06 2015 18:03 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2015 09:56 LaughingTulkas wrote:On September 05 2015 12:54 Forikorder wrote:On September 05 2015 03:24 Lysteria wrote:On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
if he goes bored after that he can always just return to outside time where the other godhands are Do you understand how/why a beherit works? Because it doesn't seem so. On September 04 2015 19:07 Forikorder wrote:
maybe you would prefer it if Guts was working against the greater good but too bad, hes not Except I didn't say he was going to work against the greater good, please just read what people say. I said it's likely that killing Griffith right now is going against the greater good of mankind (monsters/apostles free to rampage, Femto still alive anyway,...). So what you say just does not make sense at all. the Beherit works from FATE, whoever is meant to hold it will hold it at exactly the time there supposed to, if your not supposed to have it you will eventually lose it, if your meant to have it no matter what you do it will find its way back to you the one who uses it doesnt really have a say in the matter, it was pre-ordained from long ago that the events would happen wether they actually sacrifice is a different story the Beherits are the tools of the God Hands that they use to bestow power onto the chosen mortals] and you have it backwards, Gutts killing Griffith is bad in the short term (possibly since we dont know how active he needs to be to keep Falconia safe) but overtime more good comes from killing him so its a short term sacrifice FOR the greater good I think the sword of the Skull Knight proves that the power of the Behelit is not absolute, they can be twisted to other purposes. all of them are used behelits though
An apostle can still use their Behelit even after becoming an apostle, remember the count who refused to sacrifice his daughter to live after Gatts had him almost dead?
I think there are clearly themes of fate in the manga, but also themes of sometimes being able to beat fate, or to change it because of human actions. The same to me is the Behelit, sure they are almost always subject to fate, but their power is not 100% absolute.
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EPT
