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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 18 2015 12:52 c0ldfusion wrote:
OK I change my mind, I _love_ the Jaime in Dorne change.
Edit: It has also become clear that the Sansa change was a bad idea.
It makes it more involving. If they threw in the chick (can't remember her name) from the books who hasn't seen any screen time nobody would feel as invested in it. With Sansa it feels a lot more tense because we know how fucked up Ramsey is. I don't think it's a bad idea at all and definitely understand why they did it.
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On May 18 2015 14:25 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2015 12:52 c0ldfusion wrote:
OK I change my mind, I _love_ the Jaime in Dorne change.
Edit: It has also become clear that the Sansa change was a bad idea. It makes it more involving. If they threw in the chick (can't remember her name) from the books who hasn't seen any screen time nobody would feel as invested in it. With Sansa it feels a lot more tense because we know how fucked up Ramsey is. I don't think it's a bad idea at all and definitely understand why they did it.
Agree. I think Sansa's change was one of the best deviations from the books ever. It's a character we know and care about, a real 3 dimensional character. While Jeyne Poole character's the only purpose was to be hurt.
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I'm just glad he didn't force Theon/Reek to go full book mode there.
And having this Sansa makes me much more invested in her character now. The justice (hopefully) will be so sweet.
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sand snakes continue to be horrible.
go away
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0hcquE8.gif)
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Hahaha, that's hilarious.
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Yeah, the sand snakes are a bit cringe-y. They could have been executed way better. But, I can see and appreciate the Jaime and Bronn in Dorne change a bit more, it just makes the show a bit better to watch imo, as opposed to introducing tons of new characters (same can be said about Sansa in winterfell; people enjoy it more if they're watching characters they've known since season 1, as opposed to Arys Oakheart or Jeyne Poole, etc. Whether that trade-off makes the show diverge too far from the books, and decreases it overall in quality, remains to be seen - imo that hasn't happened yet)
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The whole Dorne part of the show is soooooo bad though. Doran would be exception (probably), but he doesn't get any real screentime.
That fight scene and the lead up to it was just beyond terrible, that was on the same lvl as the theon rescue mission.
This season is BY FAR the worst one yet, a lot of terrible writting and directing is going on and i fear this will continue in the next 2 seasons as well 
HBO usually means high quality, but some scenes this season are True Blood lvl, just not the standard HBO stands for...
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Welp, so much for Littlefinger being incompetent and not having a clue what he's doing. 
They pretty much turned the sand snakes into mini-bosses at this point, and the whole scene was a bit weird. Quite curious to find out what's going to happen next, though, now that everything is out in the open. I hope things will turn a whole lot more interesting in Dorne from now on.
And is the High Sparrow working together with Cersei or what? Whose idea was it to put Margaery in Sparrow-jail? They made it look like Cersei basically tells the Sparrows exactly what to do at this point, so when and why will they turn against Cersei?
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I feel like Cersei is supposed to be spiraling out of control in the books because she's drinking too much and doesn't have any checks on her, but the TV episodes are not doing a good job and just making her look more unbearable than ever for not much reason except maybe insecurity. But even that is not done very strongly since they hammed up Cersei's feud with Margaery but it didn't go in that direction at all this episode. They have mentioned it but I don't feel like they are shown as strongly as primary motivations as in the books. Maybe I'm just seeing it differently in a different media.
I hope they make the point in the series the Cersei is aping the men in her life based on the qualities most visible to her because she thought those made them powerful - Robert drank and whored so she's drinking and whoring, Tywin was condescending and manipulative so she's condescending and manipulative. Also that she thinks everyone doesn't like or respect her because she's a woman, but they don't like or respect her because she's a terrible leader.
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I do not like this. Do. Not. Like.
First of all, that Sansa scene had me twinging in pain. I really cannot stand the thought of her losing her virginity to Ramsay. It's just so bad. I can't tell if it's good or not story-wise though... I will have to wait and see where it goes. If it does not lead to something convincgly interesting, I'm afraid my interest in the show will go down by a very large margin.
Littlefinger. I'm sorry, but I still think he is portrayed as incompetent. What did he gain by leaving Sansa in the Boltons' hands? I just don't see it. No matter what LF did, Stannis and the Boltons were going to battle for Winterfell. It was going to happen, so all he did was add a card to the Boltons' deck. For no gain. The Boltons answer and negociate with people who are above them in power. Littlefinger isn't. Let's say the Boltons win, they crush Stannis AND they have Sansa. Theoretically, Roose is indebted to LF, only how would he enforce it? LF has no authority over him, no armies to scare him, possibly not even Cersei's backing. His only leverage is Sansa, and he gave it away.
From LF's point of view, not giving Sansa to the Boltons yields him the same results. It changes nothing. If anything, it would have been far, far more profitable to bring Sansa to King's Landing, as Cersei would have backed the hell out of him then. If he did this because he doesn't care about her (which Book-LF does... but this is moot at this point), then he might as well have her killed and gain the support of the Iron Throne. Not to mention he possibly helped the Lannisters against the Tyrells just now, what with Olyvar's testimony. He does work for LF, so it could be that way.
Ugh... I don't know. I just don't see the plan holding up. I don't see a valid reason as to why he would leave Sansa in the hands of the Boltons instead of going to Cersei, if his plan was to have them battle and take out the survivor. He's putting Sansa in danger too, either way. There are just so many reasons why he shouldn't have done this, even for his own sake. Am I missing something here? How does leaving Sansa in Winterfell play as an asset for LF?
About the rest...
Jaime/Bronn. About as laughable as it was predictable. Honestly, how could it go any other way? And Bronn keeps reminding him what a stupid plan it is, and yeah, because it is. It's such a poor storyline. Jaime isn't supposed to be some dumbass, come on. Really though the whole Jaime-Dorne storyline is fucking stupid so far.
I liked King's Landing and Tyrion/Jorah. Good scenes, especially the dialogue about fathers between the two.
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I think LF has the knights of the Vale. But he's already expressed that he is neither trusted nor trusts the high lords there and it's quite obvious Robin is not and perhaps never will be ready to lead. I agree with you to the extent that he's making his move but I don't think he's the puppet master here nor does it seem like his plan has a good chance of working.
I also agree that Jorah and Tyrion becoming bros is sweet. I'm not sure if the writing for Tyrion is just better than everyone else or if Peter Dinklage is stealing the show. Perhaps both. Their plot line is moving the slowest but it's the most interesting (well, moving more than Stannis maybe).
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Littlefinger gave Sansa to the Boltons so he could subsequently tell Cersei that the Boltons have Sansa, thus convincing Cersei that the Boltons are not to be trusted (because they somehow got Sansa, co-murderer of Joffrey (at least according to Cersei) and had her married into the family), thus getting official support from Cersei to invade Winterfell. Littlefinger wanted a reason to take over Winterfell and become warden of the north. If he'd just done it on his own he would have to start a war with the Lannisters, now his actions are officially supported by them instead. He couldn't have done that without giving Sansa away because he needed a way to convince Cersei that the Boltons are the bad guys.
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On May 18 2015 22:17 Conti wrote:
Littlefinger gave Sansa to the Boltons so he could subsequently tell Cersei that the Boltons have Sansa, thus convincing Cersei that the Boltons are not to be trusted (because they somehow got Sansa, co-murderer of Joffrey (at least according to Cersei) and had her married into the family), thus getting official support from Cersei to invade Winterfell. Littlefinger wanted a reason to take over Winterfell and become warden of the north. If he'd just done it on his own he would have to start a war with the Lannisters, now his actions are officially supported by them instead. He couldn't have done that without giving Sansa away because he needed a way to convince Cersei that the Boltons are the bad guys.
What good does the title of Warden of the North do him? I understand that he's amassing titles, but even the ones he has now don't do much for him. Even in the show, it is somewhat established that his rule over the Vale is unstable at best. The lords do not support him.
How would becoming Warden of the North further his plans? There is no way the North would rally behind him. A much sounder plan would be to use Sansa as a front, ruling her in the shadows.
I don't know. Maybe I'm too pissed off by Ramsay raping Sansa, and her reverting back to being victimized after she underwent some decent character development in S4. If she does not act up or find some way not to fall back into the victim pattern, I will be bitterly disappointed.
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Jaime/Bronn. About as laughable as it was predictable. Honestly, how could it go any other way? And Bronn keeps reminding him what a stupid plan it is, and yeah, because it is. It's such a poor storyline. Jaime isn't supposed to be some dumbass, come on. Really though the whole Jaime-Dorne storyline is fucking stupid so far.
The best was the line : "What after we kidnapped her?" "Dunno, i like to improvise"
Yeah D&D, i get that feeling too.
About Littlefinger: So he gave Sansa to the Boltons so he can tell Cersei that the Boltons have Sansa?
Great plan indeed. What would have happened if Cersei would have known that Littlefinger was in Winterfell? Sry but this plan only works cause it is supposed to work imo.
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On May 18 2015 22:25 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2015 22:17 Conti wrote:
Littlefinger gave Sansa to the Boltons so he could subsequently tell Cersei that the Boltons have Sansa, thus convincing Cersei that the Boltons are not to be trusted (because they somehow got Sansa, co-murderer of Joffrey (at least according to Cersei) and had her married into the family), thus getting official support from Cersei to invade Winterfell. Littlefinger wanted a reason to take over Winterfell and become warden of the north. If he'd just done it on his own he would have to start a war with the Lannisters, now his actions are officially supported by them instead. He couldn't have done that without giving Sansa away because he needed a way to convince Cersei that the Boltons are the bad guys. What good does the title of Warden of the North do him? I understand that he's amassing titles, but even the ones he has now don't do much for him. Even in the show, it is somewhat established that his rule over the Vale is unstable at best. The lords do not support him. How would becoming Warden of the North further his plans? There is no way the North would rally behind him. A much sounder plan would be to use Sansa as a front, ruling her in the shadows. I don't know. Maybe I'm too pissed off by Ramsay raping Sansa, and her reverting back to being victimized after she underwent some decent character development in S4. If she does not act up or find some way not to fall back into the victim pattern, I will be bitterly disappointed.
My guess is that he will marry Sansa and that will be enough reason for the north to support him. Or at least that's his plan. Of course, knowing the show, I very much doubt that things will go that smoothly, and the plot will go in an entirely different direction with Sansa probably ending up with Team Stannis or something. And I definitely agree with others that surely Cersei had to have some spies in Winterfell who have seen Littlefinger (who did nothing to hide himself) deliver Sansa, ruining his whole plan to begin with. But then again, his plan makes as much sense as marrying Lysa, then immediately murdering her and then expecting all the lords of the Vale to be just fine with it. Which, mind you, happened both in the books and the show.
I'm not too worried about Sansa. They're not so stupid and have her victimized like that without empowering her properly later on. They've already shown hints of that this episode with whatshername during the bath scene. I'm more worried that they'll feel compelled to have an even worse rape scene next week just to drive their point home.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
D&D better not make me look like an idiot for this statement, but think about it for a moment. There were a number of times when Sansa could have been raped by various people and each time someone has been there to bail her out (Hound, Tyrion). This time she could have opted out, she still has friends in the north, but she opted in knowing that the marriage would be consummated. I imagine it didn't go down as expected from her point of view (i.e. Theon hanging out) and hey it's still rape. But this time Sansa has put herself in this position to play the game; knowingly taking on the bad to craft out a win. She's also new at the game so maybe things aren't going exactly according to plan (as mentioned). I have faith that this isn't her reverting to Season 2 "helpless Sansa" but instead showing her growth by paralleling similar situations she encountered in S2 but instead this time with very different outcomes (my guess is having a significant role in the downfall of the Boltons).
As with everything in the show (and books for that matter) you gotta let things play out before you can judge whether or not these horrific things were important. I'm sure many felt that way when Robb died, but that had it's own important consequences on the trajectory of the story. I'm confident this will have the same.
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"I'm Sansa Stark of Winterfell. This is my home, you can't scare me."
Proceeds to get terrified by Ramsey. All that character building they've been doing for Sansa since the end of season 4 is getting destroyed. She showed no strength at the end which just makes her a stupid little girl again.
And yeah, the Sand Snakes fight was choreographed terribly. One snake holding the daggers like she's the murderer from Psycho, another's spear play getting completely overshadowed by Oberyn's.
It doesn't feel like this is the last real step to Littlefinger's plan. How could he expect the Knights of the Vale to quickly turn on the northerners after all the history between those two regions? Somehow he has nearly perfect information about what's going on, so he has to be aware of the possibility that Stannis defeats the Boltons and a new Jon Stark joins him with the full northern support. I dunno, Littlefinger just irritates me because he's been making high risk plays for 4.5 seasons and never been burned once.
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this is a huge plot change from the book, I thought they were going to try to be faithful with the book?
I guess this would mean other characters like the Lady Stoneheart is going to something in the book that one of our bigger characters gonna do in the TV.
Also I am a bit disappointed with Jaime, he felt a little bit too side character after getting all that spot light from previous seasons.
The Dorne was boring to me in the book so it is pretty much expected in TV they would remain pretty dull
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I feel like Lady Olenna will be Cersei's downfall.
she tried to reason with her fruitlessly and now she sees that Cersei is scheming to destroy her family. even Tywin knew not to fuck with that granny.
thats how I perceived it last night at least.
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On May 18 2015 22:45 dudeman001 wrote:another's spear play getting completely overshadowed by Oberyn's.
You guys will whine and bitch about anything. Are you seriously complaining because one of the sand snakes wasn't as good with a spear as Oberyn was? I mean come on...
This thread has devolved into a circlejerk about how much better the books are, and anytime someone posts something logical (like Plexa has the past few pages) it just gets lost in all the posts complaining about things.
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EPT
