SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On May 18 2015 22:45 dudeman001 wrote:another's spear play getting completely overshadowed by Oberyn's.
You guys will whine and bitch about anything. Are you seriously complaining because one of the sand snakes wasn't as good with a spear as Oberyn was? I mean come on...
This thread has devolved into a circlejerk about how much better the books are, and anytime someone posts something logical (like Plexa has the past few pages) it just gets lost in all the posts complaining about things.
You sound like the fanboy here, coming to the defense of the show at every possible turn.
If you can't see the lack of quality in the scenes with the Sand Snakes, then I just don't know what to say. They're fucking awful.
Basically everything with the Sand Snakes has been a huggee let down. The acting, the writing, the choreography of their fights. They don't have to use the spear better than Oberyn but at least have some sort of skill with to allow for a smooth looking fight. That fight scene was easily the worst done fight scene in the shows history.
I understand not everything can be perfect but this show has set the bar of quality very high and right now it's not living up to it anymore. Still good, better than most but it is far from what is expected of it right now.
On May 19 2015 05:44 Spaylz wrote: I believe the Walk of Shame was confirmed, wasn't it?
I read that it was the most expensive scene of the entire season because of the security and they had to pay businesses in the city on the filming route to stay closed for 4 days to film it, as it is done entirely outdoors. I'm kind of surprised considering Lena Headey hasn't had a single nude scene the entire series and Cersei is a character that would have justified having quite a few. I wonder if it will be a body double.
On May 18 2015 22:07 Spaylz wrote: I do not like this. Do. Not. Like.
First of all, that Sansa scene had me twinging in pain. I really cannot stand the thought of her losing her virginity to Ramsay. It's just so bad. I can't tell if it's good or not story-wise though... I will have to wait and see where it goes. If it does not lead to something convincgly interesting, I'm afraid my interest in the show will go down by a very large margin.
Littlefinger. I'm sorry, but I still think he is portrayed as incompetent. What did he gain by leaving Sansa in the Boltons' hands? I just don't see it. No matter what LF did, Stannis and the Boltons were going to battle for Winterfell. It was going to happen, so all he did was add a card to the Boltons' deck. For no gain. The Boltons answer and negociate with people who are above them in power. Littlefinger isn't. Let's say the Boltons win, they crush Stannis AND they have Sansa. Theoretically, Roose is indebted to LF, only how would he enforce it? LF has no authority over him, no armies to scare him, possibly not even Cersei's backing. His only leverage is Sansa, and he gave it away.
From LF's point of view, not giving Sansa to the Boltons yields him the same results. It changes nothing. If anything, it would have been far, far more profitable to bring Sansa to King's Landing, as Cersei would have backed the hell out of him then. If he did this because he doesn't care about her (which Book-LF does... but this is moot at this point), then he might as well have her killed and gain the support of the Iron Throne. Not to mention he possibly helped the Lannisters against the Tyrells just now, what with Olyvar's testimony. He does work for LF, so it could be that way.
Ugh... I don't know. I just don't see the plan holding up. I don't see a valid reason as to why he would leave Sansa in the hands of the Boltons instead of going to Cersei, if his plan was to have them battle and take out the survivor. He's putting Sansa in danger too, either way. There are just so many reasons why he shouldn't have done this, even for his own sake. Am I missing something here? How does leaving Sansa in Winterfell play as an asset for LF?
About the rest...
Jaime/Bronn. About as laughable as it was predictable. Honestly, how could it go any other way? And Bronn keeps reminding him what a stupid plan it is, and yeah, because it is. It's such a poor storyline. Jaime isn't supposed to be some dumbass, come on. Really though the whole Jaime-Dorne storyline is fucking stupid so far.
I liked King's Landing and Tyrion/Jorah. Good scenes, especially the dialogue about fathers between the two.
I pretty much agree with you here. Littlefinger's plan just doesn't seem to pan out. The Bolton's are loose cannons, particularly Ramsay; how the fuck do you marry off Sansa to a man you know nothing about? If he was just lying, then he probably shouldn't have handed her off to a fucking lunatic, so I think he wasn't lying when he said he didn't know much about Ramsay. As for the rest of the plan, as has been mentioned before, Stannis will never let Littlefinger get away with anything, and what army does Littlefinger actually have? Everyone in the Vale hates him and it would be incredibly unlikely for him to not only get the Vale to support him, but actually leave and invade the north, which no one has ever done.
The whole Cersei/Margaery story is also really weak. There was far more depth to it in the books, where we saw Cersei just being incompetent and the entire kingdom slowly crumble around everyone. Here, Cersei just seems in charge and getting everything. There's no depth to her or her interactions with the Faith, and Margaery's arrest is weak at best; one line from Olyvar about Margaery supposedly seeing them together and suddenly the High Sparrow not only takes his word over hers, but says that her crime is as bad as Loras's? It's just lazy and weak writing all around.
And everyone's already harped on the entire Dorne story to death. No Arianne, Sand Snakes are awful actresses/their lines are awful, and why the fuck is Jaime there? None of it makes any sense.
I have to ask, am I the only one who found the Sansa rape scene not "shocking" at all? I mean, with how things were going, you could kinda expect this would happen, right? I read many a comment on different sites that this scene "went too far," that it was the worst scene in the whole show, it was so disgusting, etc. Sure, it wasn't nice, but this is Game of Thrones; worse things have happened by the hundreds. They also say that it was not only disgusting, but also totally unnecessary. I would say changing the Sansa plot may have been unnecessary, but this scene was kinda inevitable if Sansa was to marry Ramsay.
Damn, that Dorne scene, though. That was so bad, I laughed all the way through.
Yea I don't get how people are saying that scene was the worst in the show and shocking etc. I mean Dany got raped in a more graphic way in season one... We've seen a pregnant woman stabbed multiple times in the stomach, a dead man have his pet wolfs head sewn onto his body and paraded around. A mans face crushed in by a self admitting child murdering rapist. Yet somehow this off screen rape was the most shocking and disturbing thing to people?? Why because Theon was there? I just don't get it. Of course it wasn't a pleasant thing to watch but it is nowhere near the worst thing to happen in this show.
On May 19 2015 06:16 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Yea I don't get how people are saying that scene was the worst in the show and shocking etc. I mean Dany got raped in a more graphic way in season one... We've seen a pregnant woman stabbed multiple times in the stomach, a dead man have his pet wolfs head sewn onto his body and paraded around. A mans face crushed in by a self admitting child murdering rapist. Yet somehow this off screen rape was the most shocking and disturbing thing to people?? Why because Theon was there? I just don't get it. Of course it wasn't a pleasant thing to watch but it is nowhere near the worst thing to happen in this show.
Yea, it really wasn't. The backlash is simply from the emotional attachment to the character. Most people have a lot of empathy with Sansa and what she went through, so they really feel for her in a situation like that.
That said, not only was this the inevitable consequence with her marrying Ramsay (so if you were actually shocked by it, then you are just incredibly oblivious), but they didn't actually show anything.
Is it really that hard to figure out? Sansa is a character show watchers actually care a great deal about, so bad things happening to her are that much worse. Not to mention they know Ramsay already, and they fear all the other things he might do to her. If it would be some random girl, people wouldn't have cared at all about the scene and would find it boring instead.
On May 19 2015 06:21 Stratos_speAr wrote: That said, not only was this the inevitable consequence with her marrying Ramsay (so if you were actually shocked by it, then you are just incredibly oblivious), but they didn't actually show anything.
Yeah, exactly this. Given the circumstances, this was actually the most "friendly" way they could choose.
i feel bad for sansa. it felt like grrm wanted sansa to be the innocent one as long as possible, as far as i know she is still a virgin in the books though im not sure how long that'll last. the show took that innocence away even in the books theon didnt have to actually finger his little sister, only ramsey was fooled. no one was fooled in the show.
On May 19 2015 06:23 Conti wrote: Is it really that hard to figure out? Sansa is a character show watchers actually care a great deal about, so bad things happening to her are that much worse. Not to mention they know Ramsay already, and they fear all the other things he might do to her. If it would be some random girl, people wouldn't have cared at all about the scene and would find it boring instead.
I get why people are upset, but to say this was the worst thing they ever saw on the show? People are literally saying that it was worse than the RW+Oberyn+Ned+everything else combined. Also, while those were really impossible to predict (to those that did not read the books at least), this one was, if not outright predictable, something that should not have been really unexpected.
On May 19 2015 06:33 jinorazi wrote: i feel bad for sansa. it felt like grrm wanted sansa to be the innocent one as long as possible, as far as i know she is still a virgin in the books though im not sure how long that'll last. the show took that innocence away even in the books theon didnt have to actually finger his little sister, only ramsey was fooled. no one was fooled in the show.
Wait, in the books, did Ramsey not know that Arya was actually not Arya? I can't remember, but I always thought he did know it. I should read the books again...
On May 19 2015 06:23 Conti wrote: Is it really that hard to figure out? Sansa is a character show watchers actually care a great deal about, so bad things happening to her are that much worse. Not to mention they know Ramsay already, and they fear all the other things he might do to her. If it would be some random girl, people wouldn't have cared at all about the scene and would find it boring instead.
I get why people are upset, but to say this was the worst thing they ever saw on the show? People are literally saying that it was worse than the RW+Oberyn+Ned+everything else combined. Also, while those were really impossible to predict (to those that did not read the books at least), this one was, if not outright predictable, something that should not have been really unexpected.
On May 19 2015 06:33 jinorazi wrote: i feel bad for sansa. it felt like grrm wanted sansa to be the innocent one as long as possible, as far as i know she is still a virgin in the books though im not sure how long that'll last. the show took that innocence away even in the books theon didnt have to actually finger his little sister, only ramsey was fooled. no one was fooled in the show.
Wait, in the books, did Ramsey not know that Arya was actually not Arya? I can't remember, but I always thought he did know it. I should read the books again...
oh wait, maybe theon did tell him. im not sure tbh.
So in that fight Bronn's hand got cut by a knife, I presume he is poisoned now? That's not good.
On May 18 2015 22:07 Spaylz wrote: First of all, that Sansa scene had me twinging in pain. I really cannot stand the thought of her losing her virginity to Ramsay. It's just so bad. I can't tell if it's good or not story-wise though... I will have to wait and see where it goes. If it does not lead to something convincgly interesting, I'm afraid my interest in the show will go down by a very large margin.
I agree, I hated that scene. That and Tyrion being saved until they find a cock-merchant,
The thing is not that the scene itself is so shocking. Like everybody said, it was pretty inevitable. But seriously, i was so mad. It's one thing to know that dany is going to get raped and then this will start her wonderful journey to "WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS" (sorry to remind anyone), and another one to see the last somewhat not broken Stark get destroyed like that when from ouzr perspective it may never happen. I know it problably means that it will happen soon in the books as well, which makes me even more furious. I was hoping that at least one of them would get out unharmed. After book 5 i felt for the first time that Martin is not unpredictable cause he does not care about rules, but predictable because he just kills everyone who people might enjoy reading about. This fits into this perfectly. And honestly, the other option, that the show just wanted to have more emotional connection for the ramsay rape-wedding is even worse. Yes, we cared more cause it is Sansa. But in this case i would have prefered if they had put more emphasys on other things and left this part of the story very short an uninteresting. I don't need that crap! Show us Manderly instead, watchers would have loved that to death, even if it meant another person.
Seriously, that was the lowpoint of the show. Not the worst scene, but the most rage inducing.
On May 19 2015 06:23 Conti wrote: Is it really that hard to figure out? Sansa is a character show watchers actually care a great deal about, so bad things happening to her are that much worse. Not to mention they know Ramsay already, and they fear all the other things he might do to her. If it would be some random girl, people wouldn't have cared at all about the scene and would find it boring instead.
I get why people are upset, but to say this was the worst thing they ever saw on the show? People are literally saying that it was worse than the RW+Oberyn+Ned+everything else combined. Also, while those were really impossible to predict (to those that did not read the books at least), this one was, if not outright predictable, something that should not have been really unexpected.
I'd say knowing that it would happen just made it worse. It let people build up anticipation and fear for that scene, maybe hope that it would not happen after all. Just because you know something horrible is going to happen doesn't make it any better.
What? People are upset about that scene with sansa? I didn't feel a thing about it at all, I disliked her all the way from the start. So naive and judgemental, she is worse in the book.
I actually like where this is going for her, maybe she can finally get to see how the game of thrones work and play out her part. (well I don't like the rape but it could have been torture by Bolton which I don't think it would be better)
Bronn spinning and being open to two sand snakes with weapons. Dorne op.
Re: the Sansa scene - I think the point is it's more about Theon watching and being horrified and perhaps leaving Reek behind than Sansa being raped. Robert probably raped Cersei plenty of times (Cersei has no fond memories of the sex for sure), Dany and Drogo we've seen, Craster incest, Joff implying he might bed Tyrions wife before him. Babies being slashed in front of their mothers for having a Baratheon seed.
If Theon wasn't there, the sex would be in line with whats acceptable by Westerosi standards. A repeat of Dany/Drogo but with characters we've followed for a while. When Jon Snown heard Boltons have Arya and mean to marry her to Ramsay, the same Boltons that betrayed Robb Stark, he forgot his vows and in fury began marching south to Winterfell. Perhaps this is similar to whats going on inside Theon after watching Sansa tonight, the same anger and will to action
On May 19 2015 09:34 ETisME wrote: What? People are upset about that scene with sansa? I didn't feel a thing about it at all, I disliked her all the way from the start. So naive and judgemental, she is worse in the book.
I actually like where this is going for her, maybe she can finally get to see how the game of thrones work and play out her part. (well I don't like the rape but it could have been torture by Bolton which I don't think it would be better)
Hello?!!? Sansa may be naive and judgmental but she's actually starting to understand how the GoT actually works. At this point I don't understand how you don't feel bad for her. Although what I'm mainly mad about was that Ramsay raping Sansa came out of nowhere and when we least expected it.
Also on a tangent but rape IS torture. There is nothing more humiliating and nothing worse than being raped and that's not even considering how horrifying it is ESPECIALLY in a setting like GoT where one's "maidenhood" and who you sleep with are actually important.
EPT
