EPT[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 610
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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ETisME
12888 Posts
On May 19 2015 11:25 MoosyDoosy wrote: Hello?!!? Sansa may be naive and judgmental but she's actually starting to understand how the GoT actually works. At this point I don't understand how you don't feel bad for her. Although what I'm mainly mad about was that Ramsay raping Sansa came out of nowhere and when we least expected it. Also on a tangent but rape IS torture. There is nothing more humiliating and nothing worse than being raped and that's not even considering how horrifying it is ESPECIALLY in a setting like GoT where one's "maidenhood" and who you sleep with are actually important. Hello! The rape signifies that she is finally being a part of the game rather than being mere a piece on the chess board and stop fantasizing about marrying a handsome prince and have a fairy tale life. I am almost 99% certain that she will start her game by play tricks with Ramsey, reek and that woman. In the book, Jeyne Poole marriage with Ramsey was far FAR worse than Sansa had it. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On May 19 2015 12:39 ETisME wrote: Hello! The rape signifies that she is finally being a part of the game rather than being mere a piece on the chess board and stop fantasizing about marrying a handsome prince and have a fairy tale life. I am almost 99% certain that she will start her game by play tricks with Ramsey, reek and that woman. In the book, Jeyne Poole marriage with Ramsey was far FAR worse than Sansa had it. Yea, I don't hold out a lot of hope for this whole, "She's becoming part of the game" line of thinking. I think that's what the writers are trying to do, but I don't think it'll happen very well. It'll go the same way of "Dany is an inexperienced leader, but is learning and will eventually be awesome". In reality, Dany's done jack shit the entire series, with all of her accomplishments being attributed to people doing absolutely everything for her because 1) she's hot and 2) she has dragons. | ||
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ETisME
12888 Posts
On May 19 2015 14:00 Stratos_speAr wrote: Yea, I don't hold out a lot of hope for this whole, "She's becoming part of the game" line of thinking. I think that's what the writers are trying to do, but I don't think it'll happen very well. It'll go the same way of "Dany is an inexperienced leader, but is learning and will eventually be awesome". In reality, Dany's done jack shit the entire series, with all of her accomplishments being attributed to people doing absolutely everything for her because 1) she's hot and 2) she has dragons. Being a part makes her more than who she was, it's more about her development rather than what she achieved. Personally while I thought Dany side of story eventually got boring (the whole slave fighting pit argument etc), and felt almost unnecessary but it was an interesting insight about the character. I think sansa is going to be a late bloomer to be honest. Other characters had their moment of shine earlier on, not all continue to have good exciting story line, just like jaime and dany. Some like Arya are only beginning to have their story playing out. the tv series will probably move what lady stoneheart does and give it to sansa instead. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
 Why do Dumb&Dumber keep cutting out the best parts just to put their crap fan stuff in?! The whole Dorne part was terribad and should have never made it on the screen. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On May 19 2015 08:53 Spaylz wrote: https://i.imgur.com/UPcmC7b.gif Go ahead, Serejai. Tell me that is a grand moment of cinematography. edit: another one just for kicks: https://i.imgur.com/alcwc8s.gifv Hahaha yeah man those gifs show so painfully how bad that scene was. Is it really that hard to cast three tough chicks who aren't completely useless? | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On May 19 2015 14:00 Stratos_speAr wrote: Yea, I don't hold out a lot of hope for this whole, "She's becoming part of the game" line of thinking. I think that's what the writers are trying to do, but I don't think it'll happen very well. It'll go the same way of "Dany is an inexperienced leader, but is learning and will eventually be awesome". In reality, Dany's done jack shit the entire series, with all of her accomplishments being attributed to people doing absolutely everything for her because 1) she's hot and 2) she has dragons. Only people that don't really understand what they read think this. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On May 19 2015 17:53 -Archangel- wrote: So this episode probably gave us book spoilers. In the books we can expect Littlefinger and Sansa to take Vale knights and come liberate Winterfell from Stannis or Boltons after their battle is done. Then Littlefinger marries Sansa and proclaims himself the Lord protector of North, Vale and Riverlands. He has an alliance with Tyrells so they can together remove Lannisters. Only complications are Connington and Dorne probably going to war vs Tyrells, Davos going to save Rickon, Dany finally coming back to Westeros on the back of her Dragon and of course the Others :D I don't think the books will go in the same direction as the show. At all. Is Jaime going to Dorne in TWOW? Doubt it. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1087 Posts
My favorite parts were Jamies looks. He seemed like, "Really? You call that acting?". And the whole setup was really unbelievable. So a bloody uniform is enough for complete foreigners to get into the watergardens, where the heir makes out in secret with the most important hostage they got? Come on... On May 19 2015 16:58 -Archangel- wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 19 2015 14:00 Stratos_speAr wrote: Yea, I don't hold out a lot of hope for this whole, "She's becoming part of the game" line of thinking. I think that's what the writers are trying to do, but I don't think it'll happen very well. It'll go the same way of "Dany is an inexperienced leader, but is learning and will eventually be awesome". In reality, Dany's done jack shit the entire series, with all of her accomplishments being attributed to people doing absolutely everything for her because 1) she's hot and 2) she has dragons. Only people that don't really understand what they read think this. I'm pretty sure he's talking about the show and she really comes off worse and worse in there. Get some kind of agenda girl. Yeah, she's learning, but she changes her position completely like every episode, because of more or less minor events. In the books there's far more factors presented and much more reasoning going on over a longer period of time. In the show she seems a bit dumb. Overall, i still don't see the point of rushing events so fast in the show. 2-3 more seasons would've been easily manageable. They should have started with dragging it on a bit longer way earlier though. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On May 19 2015 17:57 Spaylz wrote: I don't think the books will go in the same direction as the show. At all. Is Jaime going to Dorne in TWOW? Doubt it. What does Dorne have to do with what I wrote? Book readers always wondered why did Littlefinger save Sansa and what was his plan with her. Since the show does keep to some major events, Littlefinger taking Vale armies and securing north makes sense to happen in the books as well. On May 19 2015 18:07 r00ty wrote: I'm pretty sure he's talking about the show and she really comes off worse and worse in there. Get some kind of agenda girl. Yeah, she's learning, but she changes her position completely like every episode, because of more or less minor events. In the books there's far more factors presented and much more reasoning going on over a longer period of time. In the show she seems a bit dumb. Overall, i still don't see the point of rushing events so fast in the show. 2-3 more seasons would've been easily manageable. They should have started with dragging it on a bit longer way earlier though. I agree, in the show she was done much worse. In the books there are enough materials so people can sling same accusations at her unless you look much closer. In the show there is very little redeeming qualities for her. The rape many of the characters received by the cocks of D&D is much worse than anything Sansa suffered. And if D&D didn't write scripts with cocks all the stupid naked scenes could have been replaced by quality scenes from the books. | ||
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
On May 19 2015 11:25 MoosyDoosy wrote: Hello?!!? Sansa may be naive and judgmental but she's actually starting to understand how the GoT actually works. At this point I don't understand how you don't feel bad for her. Although what I'm mainly mad about was that Ramsay raping Sansa came out of nowhere and when we least expected it. Also on a tangent but rape IS torture. There is nothing more humiliating and nothing worse than being raped and that's not even considering how horrifying it is ESPECIALLY in a setting like GoT where one's "maidenhood" and who you sleep with are actually important. Still, that is something to be expected. Even Sansa should had been prepared for that, she knew she was gonna marry, and she knew what is supposed to happen in the wedding night. Maybe the marriage to Tyrion deluded her. The only thing not traditional in that scene is Theon being there to confirm the consummation of the marriage. On May 19 2015 12:39 ETisME wrote: In the book, Jeyne Poole marriage with Ramsey was far FAR worse than Sansa had it. Jeyne was completely broken. | ||
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On May 19 2015 18:33 TMG26 wrote: Still, that is something to be expected. Even Sansa should had been prepared for that, she knew she was gonna marry, and she knew what is supposed to happen in the wedding night. Maybe the marriage to Tyrion deluded her. The only thing not traditional in that scene is Theon being there to confirm the consummation of the marriage. This is the main point of the scene for me. Sansa knows was is going to happen, has known it from the moment she accepted to be taken to winterfell by Littlefinger. She is surrounded by people she hates/despises, but has chosen to endure them and their tortures in order to reclaim winterfell/be in a position to get revenge for her brother and mother. I'm unsure what she would do if pregnant however. | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
In the show, they would have to cast entirely new actors to play her, and that rarely goes over very well for all kinds of reasons. Are they really going to do that? Are we going to see entire episodes with Arya being portrayed by some totally different actress? Or are they going to work around that somehow? I'm really curious. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 19 2015 16:56 zatic wrote: Hahaha yeah man those gifs show so painfully how bad that scene was. Is it really that hard to cast three tough chicks who aren't completely useless? keisha (obara) is actually a decent actress =/ hard to do much with that source material and cinematography though. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On May 19 2015 19:23 Conti wrote: All the show-hate aside, what do you guys think they will do with Arya becoming a faceless man? I mean, in the books it's not an issue at all for her to get a new face. She'll still be Arya, have her POV chapters, her thoughts, her emotions, everything. Nothing would change for the reader. In the show, they would have to cast entirely new actors to play her, and that rarely goes over very well for all kinds of reasons. Are they really going to do that? Are we going to see entire episodes with Arya being portrayed by some totally different actress? Or are they going to work around that somehow? I'm really curious. My guess is that her scenes as a completely different character will not last long. If she is going to now get a new face , she is probably not going to live as a street urchin for 2-3 episodes like in the books but just go murder that merchant and come back and get blinded in ep9 or 10. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1087 Posts
On May 19 2015 19:23 Conti wrote: All the show-hate aside, what do you guys think they will do with Arya becoming a faceless man? I mean, in the books it's not an issue at all for her to get a new face. She'll still be Arya, have her POV chapters, her thoughts, her emotions, everything. Nothing would change for the reader. In the show, they would have to cast entirely new actors to play her, and that rarely goes over very well for all kinds of reasons. Are they really going to do that? Are we going to see entire episodes with Arya being portrayed by some totally different actress? Or are they going to work around that somehow? I'm really curious. I guess the simplest way would be for her to only "wear faces" for minor amounts of time. To get past ostacles or behind defenses. But a mystery character, killing someone from the list which will turn out to be Arya, is quite possible i guess. But it could also be some random servant, beggar or whore striking surprisingly, without much other screentime. Is it 100% established, that they can only wear the faces of dead people? I'd prefer, if a known character kills someone suddenly from out of nowhere, then switching to Arya's face once she sticks Needle in. I bet she wants them to know who did it before they go. That would be cool, like Tommen or Myrcella stabbing Cersei, if she's still around and healthy. In any case she could just kill someone for his face to wear. Can she prepare faces on the fly? Something along the lines of: Myrcella stabs Cersei, "Myrcella!? WTF" *Myrcella switches to Aryas face* "Myrcella is already dead... The Starks send their regards" would be my way to go. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
should be required reading imo | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On May 19 2015 14:38 ETisME wrote: Being a part makes her more than who she was, it's more about her development rather than what she achieved. Personally while I thought Dany side of story eventually got boring (the whole slave fighting pit argument etc), and felt almost unnecessary but it was an interesting insight about the character. I think sansa is going to be a late bloomer to be honest. Other characters had their moment of shine earlier on, not all continue to have good exciting story line, just like jaime and dany. Some like Arya are only beginning to have their story playing out. the tv series will probably move what lady stoneheart does and give it to sansa instead. Now THAT would be a great idea and one I would love to see! Only people that don't really understand what they read think this. This thread has had this argument several times already, and I was talking about the show (mostly). | ||
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
On May 19 2015 19:57 -Archangel- wrote: My guess is that her scenes as a completely different character will not last long. If she is going to now get a new face , she is probably not going to live as a street urchin for 2-3 episodes like in the books but just go murder that merchant and come back and get blinded in ep9 or 10. I suspect she will have a new face long enough to kill someone, and then change back immediately. She will kill Meryn Trant at some point as he went to Bravos with Mace Tyrell to see the Iron Bank. Regarding the rape scene, rape is a sensitive subject for lots of people. Sure Jeyne's fate was even worse, but it was one tiny part of two huge books and she is destroyed after it happens. They really worked hard to make a ridiculous scenario where Sansa can be raped when they cut or changed over 50% of two huge books. And I suspect that in a few episodes Sansa will act like it never happened just like Cersei did with Jaime. It's a realistic outcome for Ramsay and Sansa in that scenario, it's just not one you can say is necessary. The book plot revolves highly on the northern lords who don't even exist in the show. The rape and torture of fake Arya is heard regularly by the lords of the north who are visiting and helps lower morale and loosen support for the Boltons. Without the lords even being mentioned on the show, there really isn't even anything to gain from marrying Ramsay to Sansa in the first place. Become enemies of the crown is a pretty poor trade off for having a figure head Stark bride. And even after going with the ill conceived Sansa in Winterfell plot, they had the option of having Sansa rescued before the bedding. Even if Sansa personally kills Ramsay the damage of having her family killed and then being raped by the son of the murderer makes it a pretty hollow "victory" at that point. It didn't offend me, but in the end this is a show meant to be entertaining, and lots of people don't find that subject matter entertaining at all. My fiancée was already bored most of the season. Sansa was one of the last Starks alive and she basically said "Why am I watching this any more? Everyone who is left is either evil or a victim. Who is the hero at this point? I'm not really getting any entertainment from seeing the characters I care about get murdered, tortured or raped" Couldn't really give her a good answer. | ||
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