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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 15 2015 03:34 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 13:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 13 2015 22:56 Serejai wrote:
Two major things with the show that book readers always seem to conveniently ignore when complaining;
a) The books are told POV, so characters can be alone. You can't have a character alone in the show, otherwise they would just be talking to themselves like a crazy person. This is why we have Jaime and Bronn, Tyrion and Jorah, Brienne and Pod, etc.
b) Actors age. Bran is 7 years old when the books start, and 9 years old currently. Bran in the show has already aged twice that. You have to take a much faster pace with the show, otherwise you end up with a 20 year old actor trying to play a child. They already had to age up the characters for this very reason.
You can't just take a book and transfer it word-to-word into a media format, and I feel like they've done better than expected at converting the story so far. No one is missing either of these points, and common criticisms of the show don't have anything to do with either of these points. Lol. Pretty much every complaint in this circle-jerk of a thread is about why they cut X character, merged character X and Y, or why characters X and Y are traveling together in the show but are solo in the books. The overwhelming majority of you don't seem to understand how film works and instead think HBO is just out to piss you off for no reason.
Come on. Some comments are legitimate; who could claim scenes such as Missandei x Grey Worm are not mistakes?
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I don't mind them, obviously they could be done better but the general idea of adding some depth to Grey Worm and Missandei is good. Mormont and Selmy are gone and someone recognizable has to step in if we want to maintain some character diversity in Meeren.
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Cersei and Dany are both strong women who crumble when in power.
In the books, they both lose control and become deluded at the same time.
Do you think this is a coincidence or is this a statement by GRRM?
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I like most of the changes from the book, it keeps me curious about what will happen next. However, THIS season the changes and twists have been bad for the most part, to the point I think this is the weakest season.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
I'm in the reserve judgement until the season is over camp, it's difficult to know where the grey worm-missandei thing is going and for all we know it could be towards a higher purpose. e.g. (thanks reddit)
I kinda started thinking Grey Worm might release the dragons. Not as a betrayal, but Grey Worm already dying from his injuries goes to release the dragons when he hears that Dany (and Misssandei) are trapped in the Pit.
With so many characters being cut, and the general direction of the show being the same as the books, it makes sense that existing characters need to change in order to keep the general direction intact. For instance, Jorah getting greyscale indicates that Connington's greyscale probably is going to serve a higher purpose in the books else why would Jorah contracting the disease be important?
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On May 15 2015 03:34 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2015 13:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 13 2015 22:56 Serejai wrote:
Two major things with the show that book readers always seem to conveniently ignore when complaining;
a) The books are told POV, so characters can be alone. You can't have a character alone in the show, otherwise they would just be talking to themselves like a crazy person. This is why we have Jaime and Bronn, Tyrion and Jorah, Brienne and Pod, etc.
b) Actors age. Bran is 7 years old when the books start, and 9 years old currently. Bran in the show has already aged twice that. You have to take a much faster pace with the show, otherwise you end up with a 20 year old actor trying to play a child. They already had to age up the characters for this very reason.
You can't just take a book and transfer it word-to-word into a media format, and I feel like they've done better than expected at converting the story so far. No one is missing either of these points, and common criticisms of the show don't have anything to do with either of these points. Lol. Pretty much every complaint in this circle-jerk of a thread is about why they cut X character, merged character X and Y, or why characters X and Y are traveling together in the show but are solo in the books. The overwhelming majority of you don't seem to understand how film works and instead think HBO is just out to piss you off for no reason.
Well, if you took a second to actually read, you would see that your "enlightened points" have been mentioned a dozen times already.
The criticisms come from how they merge characters (e.g. Sansa marrying Ramsey makes no sense since Littlefinger can't win in this situation because the Bolton's are nuts and can't be trusted and Stannis would never work with Littlefinger).
And I really haven't seen anyone complain about the pace of the show being too fast either. Your second point was just completely irrelevant.
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On May 15 2015 09:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 03:34 Serejai wrote:On May 14 2015 13:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 13 2015 22:56 Serejai wrote:
Two major things with the show that book readers always seem to conveniently ignore when complaining;
a) The books are told POV, so characters can be alone. You can't have a character alone in the show, otherwise they would just be talking to themselves like a crazy person. This is why we have Jaime and Bronn, Tyrion and Jorah, Brienne and Pod, etc.
b) Actors age. Bran is 7 years old when the books start, and 9 years old currently. Bran in the show has already aged twice that. You have to take a much faster pace with the show, otherwise you end up with a 20 year old actor trying to play a child. They already had to age up the characters for this very reason.
You can't just take a book and transfer it word-to-word into a media format, and I feel like they've done better than expected at converting the story so far. No one is missing either of these points, and common criticisms of the show don't have anything to do with either of these points. Lol. Pretty much every complaint in this circle-jerk of a thread is about why they cut X character, merged character X and Y, or why characters X and Y are traveling together in the show but are solo in the books. The overwhelming majority of you don't seem to understand how film works and instead think HBO is just out to piss you off for no reason. Well, if you took a second to actually read, you would see that your "enlightened points" have been mentioned a dozen times already. The criticisms come from how they merge characters (e.g. Sansa marrying Ramsey makes no sense since Littlefinger can't win in this situation because the Bolton's are nuts and can't be trusted and Stannis would never work with Littlefinger). And I really haven't seen anyone complain about the pace of the show being too fast either. Your second point was just completely irrelevant.
Its annoying thats the only thing people discuss.
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Yeah 8000 unsullied, and they've all be cut.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 15 2015 09:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 03:34 Serejai wrote:On May 14 2015 13:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 13 2015 22:56 Serejai wrote:
Two major things with the show that book readers always seem to conveniently ignore when complaining;
a) The books are told POV, so characters can be alone. You can't have a character alone in the show, otherwise they would just be talking to themselves like a crazy person. This is why we have Jaime and Bronn, Tyrion and Jorah, Brienne and Pod, etc.
b) Actors age. Bran is 7 years old when the books start, and 9 years old currently. Bran in the show has already aged twice that. You have to take a much faster pace with the show, otherwise you end up with a 20 year old actor trying to play a child. They already had to age up the characters for this very reason.
You can't just take a book and transfer it word-to-word into a media format, and I feel like they've done better than expected at converting the story so far. No one is missing either of these points, and common criticisms of the show don't have anything to do with either of these points. Lol. Pretty much every complaint in this circle-jerk of a thread is about why they cut X character, merged character X and Y, or why characters X and Y are traveling together in the show but are solo in the books. The overwhelming majority of you don't seem to understand how film works and instead think HBO is just out to piss you off for no reason. Well, if you took a second to actually read, you would see that your "enlightened points" have been mentioned a dozen times already. The criticisms come from how they merge characters (e.g. Sansa marrying Ramsey makes no sense since Littlefinger can't win in this situation because the Bolton's are nuts and can't be trusted and Stannis would never work with Littlefinger). Well we don't know what Littlefinger's endgame actually is. That makes it pretty hard to assess his plan in the show imo, (his plan so far in the books doesn't make much sense yet either.) And fwiw, the Boltons are more predictable than you give them credit for -- they may betray you, but they always act in their houses best interests. Right now they need Sansa to consolidate power in the North and so at least can be trusted until being married off. LF being a betting man means this should be a winning gamble that he'd be happy to take. And perhaps he doesn't need to work with Stannis, perhaps having Sansa (and having protected her) is sufficient to be on side with Stannis and maybe that is good enough. Judging whether either scenario is good enough for his end game depends on what that end game is, which we'll find out soon enough I imagine.
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On it's own merits, the show is a nice complement to the books. A lot of things could've been different, but the source material is available for fans and for casuals they can still get a nice story from the series. It's not as engrossing as the books, but that still leaves the books if people want better knowledge. Also worth mentioning are the amazing DVD extras that are around 60min each and give plenty of backstory (available on youtube). For me, I started reading AGOT and watched the show side by side. When I was done with a couple of chapters, I'd tune in to the episode to see how the show handled it. I would rate the beginning of S1 a C.. but then events started unfolding and I couldn't wait to read so I just watched some episodes instead and loved it. All told I finished all 5 books before season 2, and I hadn't read fantasy for 10 years. The show has value outside the adaptation (which isn't perfect, but who cares if it gets people into the books). Arya is chilling in Bravos and Sansa is back in Winterfell? Rejoice and celebrate for glorious additions are to come every sunday instead of chapter adaptations.
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On May 15 2015 06:45 helpman173 wrote:
Cersei and Dany are both strong women who crumble when in power.
In the books, they both lose control and become deluded at the same time.
Do you think this is a coincidence or is this a statement by GRRM?
If anything, they are polar opposites when it comes to ruling.
Cersei is using viles and schemes with the ultimate goal being consolidated power and crushing rivals, and she's dumb as fuck to boot.
Danny uses a mix of strength and a particular sense of justice, with the goal being to become the best ruler and to appease as many of her subjects as possible. She's not so dumb, more naive, but not to the same extent, as how incredibly stupid book-Cersei is.
Are both somewhat delusional, yes, do both make mistakes, yes, are they the same? NO! but if there is a statement from GRRM, then it's this "Ruling is fucking hard".
And it's not about women, Robert and Ned were terrible rulers for different reasons, Stannis is inapt in other ways (no people or negotiation skills). The only presented option who maybe could have been good rulers were Tywin (the textbook machiavellian Prince) and Renly cuz he possessed many skills needed for the job (remember the massive deus ex machina needed to put him aside, otherwise he had it pretty much locked), and had no problem delegating tasks to others, and possibly Aegon, but he's built up as an ideal prince to begin with, only to fail horribly soonish, so i think he doesnt count.
Maybe you could count Euron, who possesses both cunning and strength, and understands the people he s working with, though it's arguable.
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It funny though how Tyrion throws one at the book reader during the show.
Don't remember the exact word but something like "This clearly isn't the Rhoyne" when approaching Valyria.
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On May 15 2015 06:45 helpman173 wrote:
Cersei and Dany are both strong women who crumble when in power.
In the books, they both lose control and become deluded at the same time.
Do you think this is a coincidence or is this a statement by GRRM?
It's just your impression, I don't see any meaningful similarities between these two
On May 15 2015 22:14 0x64 wrote:
It funny though how Tyrion throws one at the book reader during the show.
Don't remember the exact word but something like "This clearly isn't the Rhoyne" when approaching Valyria.
That's very cool if it's true
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On May 15 2015 16:38 0x64 wrote:
Yeah 8000 unsullied, and they've all be cut.
I laughed and I thank you for the pun.
Also, Tywin as a good ruler, i don't know, what i've learn from Crusader Kings is that a good ruler must also make sure he has the heir. Tywin had his son in the King's Guard and an Imp as successor.
He should've actually killed the imp, and remarry when Jaime went to the King' s Guard.
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On May 15 2015 22:34 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 16:38 0x64 wrote:
Yeah 8000 unsullied, and they've all be cut. I laughed and I thank you for the pun. Also, Tywin as a good ruler, i don't know, what i've learn from Crusader Kings is that a good ruler must also make sure he has the heir. Tywin had his son in the King's Guard and an Imp as successor. He should've actually killed the imp, and remarry when Jaime went to the King' s Guard.
I think he gained Celibate trait after his wife died
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On May 15 2015 22:34 TMG26 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 16:38 0x64 wrote:
Yeah 8000 unsullied, and they've all be cut. I laughed and I thank you for the pun. Also, Tywin as a good ruler, i don't know, what i've learn from Crusader Kings is that a good ruler must also make sure he has the heir. Tywin had his son in the King's Guard and an Imp as successor. He should've actually killed the imp, and remarry when Jaime went to the King' s Guard.
To be fair, he did plan on having an heir, he incorrectly assesed the Jamie situation, thinking he ll grow out of it, cuz he wasnt aware of the true reason he took the white
On May 15 2015 22:30 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 06:45 helpman173 wrote:
Cersei and Dany are both strong women who crumble when in power.
In the books, they both lose control and become deluded at the same time.
Do you think this is a coincidence or is this a statement by GRRM? It's just your impression, I don't see any meaningful similarities between these two Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 22:14 0x64 wrote:
It funny though how Tyrion throws one at the book reader during the show.
Don't remember the exact word but something like "This clearly isn't the Rhoyne" when approaching Valyria. That's very cool if it's true
They did this several time already, giving small nods towards the readers. I cant remember most of them, but the one very obvious was Cersei telling Tyrion, she heard he lost a nose, but it's not so bad after all
Oh yeah, another is the Iron throne, being a lot smaller and more conservative than its book counterpart, and LF notes, that he counted and there are nowhere near 1000 swords
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On May 15 2015 22:40 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2015 22:34 TMG26 wrote:On May 15 2015 16:38 0x64 wrote:
Yeah 8000 unsullied, and they've all be cut. I laughed and I thank you for the pun. Also, Tywin as a good ruler, i don't know, what i've learn from Crusader Kings is that a good ruler must also make sure he has the heir. Tywin had his son in the King's Guard and an Imp as successor. He should've actually killed the imp, and remarry when Jaime went to the King' s Guard. I think he gained Celibate trait after his wife died
Been playing the ASOIF mod to CK2?
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I'm not really a mod guy. But CK2 is the perfect game for ASOIAF. And I also read that the mod for CK2 is actually really huge and good.
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On May 16 2015 09:33 TMG26 wrote:
I'm not really a mod guy. But CK2 is the perfect game for ASOIAF. And I also read that the mod for CK2 is actually really huge and good.
I translated that game! HA! I am so proud.
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EPT
