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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On February 19 2015 17:25 graan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 15:26 zatic wrote:
To be fair, XX Doxos is not necessarily dead. But he is also really not important, they can just have anyone replace him. I think they will bring him back, just better for the viewers to have an known face and he fits the role even better on the show, with dany leaving him to die. I can imagine something in the lines of "he ate the girl and survived for months" 
perhaps this is why Mr.Eko is coming to GoT?
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On February 19 2015 12:52 Cricketer12 wrote:
still though, Martin has told them everything, and they will probably stick to the main overarching story, and probably change smaller branches, which worries me as it may be a hint that young griff is not as important as we may think (as he will not appear in the show)
It depends on what you think "important" means here tbh.
He probably won't be azor ahai and he probably won't survive till the end regardless.
But he will be a catalyst for events (dance of dragons) and i wouldn't be surprised if he at least would conquer kings landing and be king for a while.
I would say these things are VERY important, they might not be important if you only look at the broadest storyline possible (who will defeat the others, etc), but ASOIAF's biggest strength isn't the main storyline, it's the depth of everything around it.
The show completely lacks that part, which is why they don't even bother casting (F)Aegon, the iron islander, etc.
That doesn't mean that these characters aren't important though, it just means that you can get to the same main storyline with other solutions
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On February 20 2015 00:13 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 12:52 Cricketer12 wrote:
still though, Martin has told them everything, and they will probably stick to the main overarching story, and probably change smaller branches, which worries me as it may be a hint that young griff is not as important as we may think (as he will not appear in the show) It depends on what you think "important" means here tbh. He probably won't be azor ahai and he probably won't survive till the end regardless. But he will be a catalyst for events (dance of dragons) and i wouldn't be surprised if he at least would conquer kings landing and be king for a while. I would say these things are VERY important, they might not be important if you only look at the broadest storyline possible (who will defeat the others, etc), but ASOIAF's biggest strength isn't the main storyline, it's the depth of everything around it. The show completely lacks that part, which is why they don't even bother casting (F)Aegon, the iron islander, etc. That doesn't mean that these characters aren't important though, it just means that you can get to the same main storyline with other solutions
i dont know, Aegon might still be cast next season, im not saying it s likely, but it s possible. I doubt they will make danny leave Mereen this season, so what s the harm in delaying the Aegon story arc, they can twist things so Tyrion ends up with him for a while, wouldnt be the same, but it can be done. People thought Meera and Jojen are cut, yet they arrived a season later, and were pretty faithful to their book counterparts.
Similarily with the ironborn, though they re starting to be really late on that front.
On the other hand, Arianne seems to be cut for good, i mean the storyline which she suppoused to spearhead is happening, Dorne, Myrcella, Sandsnakes, the pieces are there, but she wont be. And that worries me, she s definetly important, and a fun character, if i had to guess, probably Martin woudl disagree with this change the most, if he could go on record about it.
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Arianne is a very different character from Aegon. She is not really important. What she does may be, but that can easily still happen by using diferent characters, so she can be replaced. Aegon can't, there is no way they use his storyline with other characters.
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United States124 Posts
I think they might be saving aegon and the greyjoy uncles for next season and change their timings/stories a bit to give GRRM more time to finish WoW. There's a lotta story there to be used while staying true to the books and not passing them at the same time
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Yeah, I honestly don't seem them bypassing the Ironborn plot altogether. Euron was basically made for TV.
(f)Aegon could be interesting. It could definitely lead to some GREAT scenes from Dinklage. Arianne though... even though she'd be a gratuitous excuse for sex scenes, she might very well be cut.
I hope we see a decent focus on Davos this season. Notably his trip to White Harbor, and his exchange with Jared Frey.
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I dont care if the show spoils stuff, whoever is first gets to tell the story.
Probably wont read the book when its released in 2020 though. I dont think they are very well written anyway, structure wise they are often times very confusing and badly arranged to be honest.
I probably wont care anymore by then.
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On March 12 2015 23:20 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
I dont care if the show spoils stuff, whoever is first gets to tell the story.
Probably wont read the book when its released in 2020 though. I dont think they are very well written anyway, structure wise they are often times very confusing and badly arranged to be honest.
I probably wont care anymore by then.
if you think the books are badly written, specifically poorly structured, you have no clue about literature. It's not one of those things, what you like more, or what you appreciate more so we can disagree, no.
Structure and arrangement are objective criteria, and Asoiaf books are excellent in this regard, one of the best fiction i ever read, and I read a tone.
If for you well structured means a linear and one-conflict story, well, then indeed it's the wrong series for you, but that s on you.
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He might refer to Martin splitting up the POV characters in 2 parts and first telling the story of the first half, then "going back in time" and telling the story of the second half.
I know he explains his reasoning for it in the books themselves, but I wasn't a big fan either.
Especially since Tyrion, Jon and Dany are in the second part and you know nothing about them for 10+ years xD
Also claiming this is an objective matter just makes you look silly.
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On March 13 2015 00:04 Laurens wrote:
He might refer to Martin splitting up the POV characters in 2 parts and first telling the story of the first half, then "going back in time" and telling the story of the second half.
I know he explains his reasoning for it in the books themselves, but I wasn't a big fan either.
Especially since Tyrion, Jon and Dany are in the second part and you know nothing about them for 10+ years xD
Also claiming this is an objective matter just makes you look silly.
My pun senses are tingling!
TBH I thought the last book was just boring/bad
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On March 13 2015 00:39 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 00:04 Laurens wrote:
He might refer to Martin splitting up the POV characters in 2 parts and first telling the story of the first half, then "going back in time" and telling the story of the second half.
I know he explains his reasoning for it in the books themselves, but I wasn't a big fan either.
Especially since Tyrion, Jon and Dany are in the second part and you know nothing about them for 10+ years xD
Also claiming this is an objective matter just makes you look silly. My pun senses are tingling! TBH I thought the last book was just boring/bad
That's because you haven't read The Winds of Winter yet. Feast and Dance are entirely building up everything to Winds. I think once you read Winds, you'll realize how amazing Dance was.
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On March 13 2015 02:12 Noro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 00:39 Salteador Neo wrote:On March 13 2015 00:04 Laurens wrote:
He might refer to Martin splitting up the POV characters in 2 parts and first telling the story of the first half, then "going back in time" and telling the story of the second half.
I know he explains his reasoning for it in the books themselves, but I wasn't a big fan either.
Especially since Tyrion, Jon and Dany are in the second part and you know nothing about them for 10+ years xD
Also claiming this is an objective matter just makes you look silly. My pun senses are tingling! TBH I thought the last book was just boring/bad That's because you haven't read The Winds of Winter yet. Feast and Dance are entirely building up everything to Winds. I think once you read Winds, you'll realize how amazing Dance was.
I remember rushing through them the first time, because I wanted to know what happens, and not really finding them that great at all. Then on my second read-through they were much more enjoyable because there was just so much I had missed the first time. Feast and Dance were by far the most enjoyable on the second read for me.
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On March 13 2015 06:23 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 02:12 Noro wrote:On March 13 2015 00:39 Salteador Neo wrote:On March 13 2015 00:04 Laurens wrote:
He might refer to Martin splitting up the POV characters in 2 parts and first telling the story of the first half, then "going back in time" and telling the story of the second half.
I know he explains his reasoning for it in the books themselves, but I wasn't a big fan either.
Especially since Tyrion, Jon and Dany are in the second part and you know nothing about them for 10+ years xD
Also claiming this is an objective matter just makes you look silly. My pun senses are tingling! TBH I thought the last book was just boring/bad That's because you haven't read The Winds of Winter yet. Feast and Dance are entirely building up everything to Winds. I think once you read Winds, you'll realize how amazing Dance was. I remember rushing through them the first time, because I wanted to know what happens, and not really finding them that great at all. Then on my second read-through they were much more enjoyable because there was just so much I had missed the first time. Feast and Dance were by far the most enjoyable on the second read for me.
I never "rushed" through it and i already thought on my first read that AFFC was probably my favorite book of the series.
ADWD still in my top 3 (a little bit behind ASOS). But yeah they are even better on a reread. (i actually didn't reread ADWD yet, maybe it will be my second favorite one soon^^)
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I get how one might dislike GRRM's style of writing, but to say he isn't a skilled writer or that the books have poor structure? Seems a bit far-fetched.
The one thing we can hate about GRRM is his absurd propensity to describe meals for pages on end.
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On March 13 2015 07:56 Spaylz wrote:
I get how one might dislike GRRM's style of writing, but to say he isn't a skilled writer or that the books have poor structure? Seems a bit far-fetched.
The one thing we can hate about GRRM is his absurd propensity to describe meals for pages on end.
Huh? That has really never bothered me at all. I haven't even noticed.
GRRM is a pretty decent writer. To compare him in the fantasy genre, he is better than most contemporaries, and far better than some. Compare his character descriptions to Robert Jordan, for instance. Despite the fact that I like the WoT series quite a lot, GRRM manages a far better and more realistic character portrayal of even minor plot characters. RJ's characters are all very one-dimensional in comparison (especially the female ones). They're also all unkillable.
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Dornish chapters were far from perfect so I understand why some people say that the books have a poor structure
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I'm referring to the last two books. I dont think it's a good solution to split the world by characters and then go back in time and do the same from another perspective. I dont think it worked out that well for a good arc of suspension or story telling wise.
It's ok to have non-linear storylines so the structure of the book is more like a maze with some dead ends. Ofc thats way more challenging to do without losing yourself in too many details and unnecessary plots. But in the end a good maze is still symmetrical like a circle or a square and i feel like its spilling over at all ends.
The books have some great moments but i feel like it gets progressively harder and harder to tie everything back together and make it one coherent story. At some point you realize which storylines are more important and which lead to a dead end. That makes it incredibly hard to stay interested. It didnt feel like a book that you just cant put away because you enjoy reading it so much.
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If you think there is a single story arc in these books that is "pointless" you are not paying close enough attention.
Martin is a master world-builder and storyteller, yes he goes overboard with the food and outfits and whatnot at times, but nothing in terms of plot makes it into the final draft if it isn't somehow relevant.
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Quite a few storylines have not made it in the TV show, by the looks of things.
Either that means they really are dead ends, OR there's just not enough time/budget to include them and they will not be dead ends in the books.
I'm hoping for the latter, I also doubt any of it is pointless.
But the AFFC/ADWD character divide annoyed me and I'm glad it won't happen again.
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So apparently in the show "sunspear" is just called "dorne".
While this is minor, i think it shows a big problem of the show.
Changing things, which weren't necessary at all
MEH
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EPT
