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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On March 13 2015 14:03 l3loodraven wrote:
If you think there is a single story arc in these books that is "pointless" you are not paying close enough attention.
Martin is a master world-builder and storyteller, yes he goes overboard with the food and outfits and whatnot at times, but nothing in terms of plot makes it into the final draft if it isn't somehow relevant.
If you think Martin goes overboard with the food/outfits, then wait till you get to some of Robert Jordan's later works lol.
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On March 14 2015 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So apparently in the show "sunspear" is just called "dorne".
While this is minor, i think it shows a big problem of the show.
Changing things, which weren't necessary at all
MEH
Most show watchers I know already have trouble telling things (people, places) apart. I think changing things like this for clarity (like, say the Asha/Yara change) doesn't hurt the book readers and actively helps show watchers.
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Braavos36402 Posts
On March 14 2015 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So apparently in the show "sunspear" is just called "dorne".
While this is minor, i think it shows a big problem of the show.
Changing things, which weren't necessary at all
MEH
this actually annoys me more than a lot of things, because i thought sunspear was a really cool name for a city, like winterfell or castle black
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On March 14 2015 03:11 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So apparently in the show "sunspear" is just called "dorne".
While this is minor, i think it shows a big problem of the show.
Changing things, which weren't necessary at all
MEH Most show watchers I know already have trouble telling things (people, places) apart. I think changing things like this for clarity (like, say the Asha/Yara change) doesn't hurt the book readers and actively helps show watchers.
Well isn't it more confusing for show watchers, in this specific case? If you have both a city and a country called Dorne, people might get confused, where Sunspear would have been clear for everyone.
I don't really think it's a big (or even medium-sized) deal though
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On March 14 2015 00:57 Loanshark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 14:03 l3loodraven wrote:
If you think there is a single story arc in these books that is "pointless" you are not paying close enough attention.
Martin is a master world-builder and storyteller, yes he goes overboard with the food and outfits and whatnot at times, but nothing in terms of plot makes it into the final draft if it isn't somehow relevant. If you think Martin goes overboard with the food/outfits, then wait till you get to some of Robert Jordan's later works lol.
But who can resist a good braid tugging match between Nynaeve and Birgitte? Followed by all women sniffing in unison.
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On March 14 2015 03:55 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 00:57 Loanshark wrote:On March 13 2015 14:03 l3loodraven wrote:
If you think there is a single story arc in these books that is "pointless" you are not paying close enough attention.
Martin is a master world-builder and storyteller, yes he goes overboard with the food and outfits and whatnot at times, but nothing in terms of plot makes it into the final draft if it isn't somehow relevant. If you think Martin goes overboard with the food/outfits, then wait till you get to some of Robert Jordan's later works lol. But who can resist a good braid tugging match between Nynaeve and Birgitte? Followed by all women sniffing in unison.
dont be a addle-brained lummox
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On March 14 2015 03:45 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So apparently in the show "sunspear" is just called "dorne".
While this is minor, i think it shows a big problem of the show.
Changing things, which weren't necessary at all
MEH this actually annoys me more than a lot of things, because i thought sunspear was a really cool name for a city, like winterfell or castle black
Well i am a big Dorne and Martell fan (who would have thought :D), so i agree with you!
I just don't see the point -.-
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On March 13 2015 18:10 Laurens wrote:
Quite a few storylines have not made it in the TV show, by the looks of things.
Either that means they really are dead ends, OR there's just not enough time/budget to include them and they will not be dead ends in the books.
I'm hoping for the latter, I also doubt any of it is pointless.
There is a third option. They are not telling GRRMs story anymore and are starting to get rather far into their own spin-off. I think a combination of that and the not enough time/budget option are the where the answer lies.
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On March 14 2015 06:30 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 18:10 Laurens wrote:
Quite a few storylines have not made it in the TV show, by the looks of things.
Either that means they really are dead ends, OR there's just not enough time/budget to include them and they will not be dead ends in the books.
I'm hoping for the latter, I also doubt any of it is pointless. There is a third option. They are not telling GRRMs story anymore and are starting to get rather far into their own spin-off. I think a combination of that and the not enough time/budget option are the where the answer lies.
I'd rather say that they know the ending already (we know that they know), and they "simply" change the way they will arrive at said ending. In part because GRRM probably didn't tell them all the details (he probably hasn't made up his mind about all of them yet himself), and in part because they have to simplify the story a great deal anyhow to transition it from books to TV show.
So what we will see will be different from the books, but the ending will be just about the same.
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What I predict will happen:
D&d finish song of ice and fire as GRRM told them to. The show is successful and thus a spinoff is made. Attention for the book series plummets. We all know the ending so why read something you've already seen? GRRM cancels the series.GRRM starts writing suplementary mini novels for the spinoff and inevitable franchise. GRRM makes a killing but becomes disillusioned with selling out. GRRM overdoses on his celebrity cocain and dies from cardiac arrest in 2018. HBO makes a tribute documentary about George which earns them millions. Jeb Bush is reelected for his second term in 2020.
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On March 14 2015 09:25 Hyperbola wrote:
What I predict will happen:
D&d finish song of ice and fire as GRRM told them to. The show is successful and thus a spinoff is made. Attention for the book series plummets. We all know the ending so why read something you've already seen? GRRM cancels the series.GRRM starts writing suplementary mini novels for the spinoff and inevitable franchise. GRRM makes a killing but becomes disillusioned with selling out. GRRM overdoses on his celebrity cocain and dies from cardiac arrest in 2018. HBO makes a tribute documentary about George which earns them millions. Jeb Bush is reelected for his second term in 2020.
The end of the books will not be pleasing to a large audience, so I don't see it happening.
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On March 14 2015 07:42 Conti wrote:
I'd rather say that they know the ending already (we know that they know), and they "simply" change the way they will arrive at said ending. In part because GRRM probably didn't tell them all the details (he probably hasn't made up his mind about all of them yet himself), and in part because they have to simplify the story a great deal anyhow to transition it from books to TV show.
So what we will see will be different from the books, but the ending will be just about the same.
Yes. Major plot events have not differed yet from the books, and I agree that much is likely enough to continue to hold true.
That said, as things drift farther apart it becomes more possible. Jaime and Bronn on a roadtrip to Dorne seems like a possible major plot re-arranging, as does Varys traveling with Tyrion across Essos.
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On March 14 2015 03:45 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 00:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So apparently in the show "sunspear" is just called "dorne".
While this is minor, i think it shows a big problem of the show.
Changing things, which weren't necessary at all
MEH this actually annoys me more than a lot of things, because i thought sunspear was a really cool name for a city, like winterfell or castle black
In S04E05 when Cersei is talking to Oberyn and wants him to bring a gift for Myrcella (a ship), he mentions that he will "Have it sailed down to Sunspear for her" (32:50)
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On March 14 2015 15:50 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2015 07:42 Conti wrote:
I'd rather say that they know the ending already (we know that they know), and they "simply" change the way they will arrive at said ending. In part because GRRM probably didn't tell them all the details (he probably hasn't made up his mind about all of them yet himself), and in part because they have to simplify the story a great deal anyhow to transition it from books to TV show.
So what we will see will be different from the books, but the ending will be just about the same. Yes. Major plot events have not differed yet from the books, and I agree that much is likely enough to continue to hold true. That said, as things drift farther apart it becomes more possible. Jaime and Bronn on a roadtrip to Dorne seems like a possible major plot re-arranging, as does Varys traveling with Tyrion across Essos.
They definitely are major plot re-arrangements. But they won't change the ending of the story, ultimately. Varys will make his way back to King's Landing eventually to betray people, doens't matter if he's been staying away or travelling with Tyrion. And it doesn't matter if Jaime is busy in Dorne or busy in the Riverlands, he won't be able to help Cersei either way.
There's probably going to be some differences about the ending based on these changes, sure, but they'll be minor. Let's assume Bronn will be alive and well in the books in the end, but die some tragic/epic death in the show. It won't really affect the big picture about what happens with the war against the Others and who ends up sitting on the Iron Throne (assuming it still stands by the end of it all).
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Among Martin's secrets, I'm most intrigued by the mystery of Gerold Dayne ("Darkstar"). Too much time and details have been spent on him for his character to get killed off and tidied up without an explanation.
I like to think that he represents some jaded and vengeful resurrection of Rhaegar Targaryen or Arthur Dayne.
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I think we had already passed into the point where the question is one of if Winds will be out before the TV series finishes rather than if Dream will.
They downplay the extent of the differences between their story and GRRM's. I wonder if they might go as far as to end with some important pieces in different positions despite their claims to the contrary.
Things are going to really veer off into new territory if they decide to fit in extra seasons despite having already condensed things in accordance with the plan to do it all in seven. What do they do, make that much more stuff up, or fit in previously cut things but out of chronological order? Yay, Jaime and Bronn roadtrip to the Iron Islands after they get back from Dorne!
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On March 24 2015 11:12 Irrelevant Label wrote:
I think we had already passed into the point where the question is one of if Winds will be out before the TV series finishes rather than if Dream will.
They downplay the extent of the differences between their story and GRRM's. I wonder if they might go as far as to end with some important pieces in different positions despite their claims to the contrary.
Things are going to really veer off into new territory if they decide to fit in extra seasons despite having already condensed things in accordance with the plan to do it all in seven. What do they do, make that much more stuff up, or fit in previously cut things but out of chronological order? Yay, Jaime and Bronn roadtrip to the Iron Islands after they get back from Dorne!
Depends what you consider important pieces.
Im 90% sure that the following will ultimately have the same fate as in the books:
The Others
dragons
Danny
Jon
Lannister siblings
Bran
Arya
Sansa
Theon
Now small characters like Bron might die or end up elsewhere (he s probably the one hinted at as to die in the show but not in the book), important characters like LF and Varys will probably have somewhat different, but at the end of the day similar end as in the books.
EDIT: or if you think the characters' personalities might be different at the end, well, that s entirely sure
A. Arya isnt a sociopath in the show
B. Tyrion isnt a mean, bitter, ruined, vengeful, hateful person like he has turned into after the 3rd book
C. other main characters have a couple of slight, but fundamental changes as well
And i dont see those being reversed, i mean for Arya and Tyrion the chance has pretty much passed, they clearly decided they are more marketable like this, nonetheless their role in the story wont change very much
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If you think Arya isn't a sociopath in the show you might want to rewatch, I dunno everthing s3 onwards.
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EPT
