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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
Funny anecdote: my best friend called me today to ask about a "cross-shaped pawn" she had seen in the first few seconds of episode 9, and asked me if it represented Theon.
At first I had no idea what she was talking about, so I watched the scene again, and among the wolf- and lion-shaped pieces, you do see a red human shape tied to the same wooden cross as Theon. The shape is the Flayed Man of the Dreadfort, and of course it represents Bolton's army.
I told her I couldn't answer without spoiling a reveal, but if she had remembered the banners flown by the guys who arrested Jaime, she would have figured the Ramsay reveal right there. These tiny details are just awesome.
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Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general).
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On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general).
I doubt it, but I read the books, so it's tricky to distinguish what info I have from the books and from the series.
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On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general).
From the TV show alone, it's absolutely impossible to figure out anything. There's the History of Westeros videos out there, though, which do mention Rhaegar abducting Lyanna, though they don't go into more details than that, and I would say it's still impossible to figure out anything from just that.
Of course, that hasn't stopped some people in the other thread already pointing out how Lyanna is not looking unhappy in the History of Westeros video, and therefore it was no abduction (yes, seriously), and how only Robert ever spoke negatively of Rhaegar in the show.. even though nobody else ever spoke of Rhaegar in the show.
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On June 07 2013 07:12 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general). From the TV show alone, it's absolutely impossible to figure out anything. There's the History of Westeros videos out there, though, which do mention Rhaegar abducting Lyanna, though they don't go into more details than that, and I would say it's still impossible to figure out anything from just that. Of course, that hasn't stopped some people in the other thread already pointing out how Lyanna is not looking unhappy in the History of Westeros video, and therefore it was no abduction (yes, seriously), and how only Robert ever spoke negatively of Rhaegar in the show.. even though nobody else ever spoke of Rhaegar in the show. Selmy spoke of Rhaegar and said he was the finest man hed ever met, etc.
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On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general).
I know of some strictly unspoiled show watchers who are onto the notion that there is *something* to the truth of Jon's parentage and they do go as "far" as to question if Eddard is really Jon's father, but that is about it. They have nothing to go on but gut feeling and spending too much time arguing about how Ned minced his words regarding Jon "having his blood" rather than calling him "son".
There has been nothing in the show to support it other than whatever you count the hint that it wasn't exactly an abduction when Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar and that bit of word choice.
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United States7639 Posts
On June 06 2013 14:11 itkovian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 12:16 DannyJ wrote:
Haha the reaction from my friends was pretty much the opposite. We all read the books and hated that Talisa character so her death was met with essentially instant high fives.
...such nerds. I can understand that. I didn't like Talisa either. But I didn't like that her death confirmed the unimportance of Jeyne, and ended the theory of her potentially having Robb's child. Not that I was a big believer in her theory, but its fun to have weird options like that exist in the book, because you can never be certain what GRRM will do with them. Also, the fact that Robb brought Talisa to the Frey's wedding, risking their offense, made him look that much stupider.
I think that it's because a lot of the speculating about Jeyne stemmed from the inconsistencies with her descriptions, and GRRM has confirmed that that was simply a mistake, and that he often makes errors when it comes to minor details about a character, like eye color, or having wide or narrow hips. Speculation and making theories is all good and fun, but if it's based on the writer making a booboo in between the books, then perhaps it's a little silly and pointless, so it's not a bad thing to close that door.
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On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general).
The book is much easier to infer if you look closer because of the way Ned refers to Jon in his PoV.
As is, the show itself doesn't have enough clues going (yet?).
EDIT: Also, one of my friends just postulated to me the importance of cats/kittens in understanding the complex themes and morality of ASOIAF/GoT, specifically Tommen's.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how hard did he troll me.
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On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general).
The only thing I can think of is when Dany finds herself at The Wall during the House of the Undying part. She sees a vision of Khal Drogo and Rhaego, the latter of whom has black hair, which I think is saying that Targaryens can have black hair. It's essentially the show version of the winter rose on The Wall.
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On June 07 2013 10:04 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general). The only thing I can think of is when Dany finds herself at The Wall during the House of the Undying part. She sees a vision of Khal Drogo and Rhaego, the latter of whom has black hair, which I think is saying that Targaryens can have black hair. It's essentially the show version of the winter rose on The Wall.
That and snow in the Throne Room
Snow in the Throne Room
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United States7639 Posts
On June 07 2013 11:59 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 10:04 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general). The only thing I can think of is when Dany finds herself at The Wall during the House of the Undying part. She sees a vision of Khal Drogo and Rhaego, the latter of whom has black hair, which I think is saying that Targaryens can have black hair. It's essentially the show version of the winter rose on The Wall. That and snow in the Throne Room Snow in the Throne Room
...Wow. I only just realized what that was supposed to mean lol. Thanks for spelling it out.
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Exactly, Ramsay Snow will sit the Iron Throne
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On June 07 2013 13:07 Dakkas wrote:
Exactly, Ramsay Snow will sit the Iron Throne
I'd love to see reaction videos to that.
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On June 07 2013 11:59 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 10:04 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general). The only thing I can think of is when Dany finds herself at The Wall during the House of the Undying part. She sees a vision of Khal Drogo and Rhaego, the latter of whom has black hair, which I think is saying that Targaryens can have black hair. It's essentially the show version of the winter rose on The Wall. That and snow in the Throne Room Snow in the Throne Room
My mind...
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On June 07 2013 09:59 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general). The book is much easier to infer if you look closer because of the way Ned refers to Jon in his PoV. As is, the show itself doesn't have enough clues going (yet?). EDIT: Also, one of my friends just postulated to me the importance of cats/kittens in understanding the complex themes and morality of ASOIAF/GoT, specifically Tommen's. On a scale of 1 to 10, how hard did he troll me.
Seriously? Ser pounce is going to end up on the iron throne so you weren't trolled at all
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On June 07 2013 13:34 KOFgokuon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 09:59 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general). The book is much easier to infer if you look closer because of the way Ned refers to Jon in his PoV. As is, the show itself doesn't have enough clues going (yet?). EDIT: Also, one of my friends just postulated to me the importance of cats/kittens in understanding the complex themes and morality of ASOIAF/GoT, specifically Tommen's. On a scale of 1 to 10, how hard did he troll me. Seriously? Ser pounce is going to end up on the iron throne so you weren't trolled at all
But what do kittens have to do with the themes of the series arggghh.
Next you'll tell me Ned really is warged into Ser Pounce. :\
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On June 07 2013 13:38 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 13:34 KOFgokuon wrote:On June 07 2013 09:59 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 07 2013 06:23 animagne wrote:
Is there enough information in the tv series to infer R+L=J? I know it's much harder, especially when you don't have detailed memories from Ned, but are there enough details still in? (House of undying, Robert talking to Ned when they set off to king's road, references to Rhaegar in general). The book is much easier to infer if you look closer because of the way Ned refers to Jon in his PoV. As is, the show itself doesn't have enough clues going (yet?). EDIT: Also, one of my friends just postulated to me the importance of cats/kittens in understanding the complex themes and morality of ASOIAF/GoT, specifically Tommen's. On a scale of 1 to 10, how hard did he troll me. Seriously? Ser pounce is going to end up on the iron throne so you weren't trolled at all But what do kittens have to do with the themes of the series arggghh. Next you'll tell me Ned really is warged into Ser Pounce. :\
No, he warged into Balerion. Keep it straight with the cats.
It occurred to me that the show might have given the nod to the theory that Daario betrayed Dany. They merged the second sons and the stormcrows and in doing so might have merged Daario and Plumm.
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On June 06 2013 04:52 karazax wrote:
My guesses for likely possibilities for next episode:
Red wedding aftermath including perhaps the escape of the Blackfish since he wasn't there at all in the books.
Bran meets Sam and goes thru the black gate.
Jon returns to castle black, and perhaps Ygritte attacks and dies.
Dany is hailed as savior of the city and called mother. Perhaps they head to Meereen.
Davos tries to convince Stannis not to sacrifice Gendry, using the arguement that Joffrey is still alive. Perhaps helps Gendry escape.
Theon finds out the identity of his captor.
Yara gets some screen time.
Arya might kill Polliver and reclaim Needle.
Jamie doesn't have any more chapters until after Joffrey's death in the books.
Tyrion and the rest of Kings Landing cast react to the Red Wedding. Perhaps Tywin shows Tyrion the swords he had made from Eddard's Valyrian steel blade. They recieve a letter from the wall saying Mormont is dead and the watch needs men. Tywin plans to send a message stating that if the Watch wants to see any men the must elect Janos Slynt as their new Lord Commander.
Littlefinger might meet with Lyssa in the vale.
Other TV only original scenes.
First thought: Who's Yara?
Then Googled.
Second thought: Why'd they change her name again? This is confusing.
Anyhow, under the assumption they'll try to make this episode as optimistic as possible to keep people from abandoning the show in their post Red Wedding despair, I'm cutting your list down. Also cutting out Yara/Asha because I feel that'd be random (I think nonreaders need a refresher on the Greyjoys first). Leaving the possibility of Arya murdering somebody because while that would be grim, and not optimistic like I said, it'd make sense to have her ragekill somebody after the RW. Also adding Catelyn's body to the list for the same reason, the RW just happened. Also, Jaime was in the preview for the next episode speaking to Tywin (see quote below). Not including Coldhands on the list because I'm guessing they'll wait to put him on next season's CGI budget, else they would've included him by now (right?). Bolding the ones I think most likely or most want to see:
Red wedding aftermath including perhaps the escape of the Blackfish since he wasn't there at all in the books.
Bran meets Sam and goes thru the black gate.
Jon returns to castle black.
Dany is hailed as savior of the city and called mother. Perhaps they head to Meereen.
Davos tries to convince Stannis not to sacrifice Gendry, using the arguement that Joffrey is still alive. Perhaps helps Gendry escape.
Arya might kill Polliver and reclaim Needle.
Jamie confronts Tywin about something?
Tyrion and the rest of Kings Landing cast react to the Red Wedding. Perhaps Tywin shows Tyrion the swords he had made from Eddard's Valyrian steel blade. They receive a letter from the wall saying Mormont is dead and the watch needs men. Tywin plans to send a message stating that if the Watch wants to see any men the must elect Janos Slynt as their new Lord Commander.
Littlefinger might meet with Lyssa in the vale.
Catelyn's body being recovered from the river.
Other TV only original scenes.
On June 06 2013 06:31 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 06:28 Lord Tolkien wrote:On June 06 2013 04:25 Mafe wrote:
So uhm as it is kind of a principle to break the expectations the readers/viewers have, do you think there is a chance that the main storylines (North/Wall-storyline, civil war, eastern continent) might just keep touching each other only marginally for the whole reamainder of the series?
Or/and, looking at the title, in the end the whole "civilization" will be more or less destroyed and it's ice aka "the others" and fire aka dragons the only relevant remaining things, maybe each ruling one continent?
(I haven't read any of the books, but loosely followed the TV series, and do not mind getting spoiled. Sorry if some of my points are outdated.) The storylines will touch, don't doubt that. when they touch, well, that's another story entirely.. The titular conflict is of ice and fire, after all (ASOIAF). The remaining two books to-be published are Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. Take that how you will. On June 06 2013 06:01 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On June 06 2013 05:53 dragoonier wrote:
After I watched the preview again, I really don't know what think about Jaime Lannister. It looks like he is in house. But shouldn't he still be on the road to King's Landing? He should only arrive after the purple wedding but that is in season 4. So maybe they changed Jaime's storyline or maybe it just a random house on the road. I guess we will see. I don't see any real reason/benefit to having Jaime's story line changed and having him there for the wedding so I'm just going to assume it's a random house/ pit stop on the road? It also complicates things dramatically if Jaime and Brienne arrive at Kings Landing before Littlefinger runs off with Sansa. Oh yea I didn't even think about that!
On June 06 2013 05:45 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 05:36 Koerage wrote:On June 06 2013 05:24 andrewlt wrote:On June 06 2013 04:06 farvacola wrote:On June 06 2013 04:04 Maxyim wrote:On June 06 2013 03:59 farvacola wrote:On June 06 2013 03:56 Maxyim wrote:Season 4 will be the second half of book 3? Um, no... lol, from GRRM's own blog, in regards to season 3. This one will cover (roughly) the first half or thereabouts of A STORM OF SWORDS, the third novel in the series. source Actually, now that I think about it, you are right; we are only on Chapter 52 of 8x. I suppose that means that they will end Season 4 with Joffrey's death. I definitely hope so; I really enjoyed Martin's imagery of the wedding and how absolutely ridiculous it was in terms of opulence, and I think at least an episode or two would be needed to show that properly. Going through 70ish dishes before Joff chokes. I highly doubt that their plans to do 7 seasons will work, unless they chain Martin to his chair and force him to write 24/7 until he's done. it's never been said that the books will be done before the series - D&D know how its supposed to end so they can finish it. The details make the series, not the ending. We could have the same winner on the Iron Throne without the Battle of Blackwater, the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding and the other memorable moments in the series. Martin has had the ending for a while now, but he admits that not even he knows how he's going to get there yet. That said, he did churn out the first three books fairly quickly, so maybe there's hope that these can get out quickly.
We are past the Meerenese (sp?) knot, so that's something. But I don't believe that GRRM can finish this massive epic of a story in two books.
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Asha sounds similar to Osha, it'll confuse show-only viewers. One of the reasons why Robert Arryn was changed to Robin Arryn
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EPT
