SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On June 04 2013 03:09 SKC wrote: She is definatelly not confirmed to be pregnant in the books, it was just a theory. This basically kills that theory, but doesn't change much about the future books. I guess you could say it spoils the fact she won't be a major character in the future.
Pretty much my thoughts. Was kinda an interesting tidbit for the readers closing a rather annoying little plot "hole"?
The only thing that has me curious with this episode is I really didn't expect the siege of Yunkai to be pretty much "over". What the hell is planned for the next episode. I was kinda expecting a more focused episode with this one, and instead they advanced pretty much every storyline.
From that episode description floating around we are likely going to see a scene of Joffrey disgustingly joyful at the events that transpired while everyone else is trying to wash his hands of it leading to a confrontation with Tywin. I though the 10th was going to be Dany heavy, but there really isn't all that much unless they make her reach her next destination in one episode. Just hoping it's not too much filler.
On a side note... Being a reader and going on other threads is delicious. IGN comment thread on the review (Matt Fowler loved the episode) had a delicious comment: R.I.P Cat Stark with an image. The only replies were like chuckles and giggles.
Well, since the TV producers have been liberal with re-ordering story points and whatnot, it's entirely feasible (especially with the last Melisandre scene and the leeches) for both Balon and Joffrey to bite the dust in the season finale, which would be fucking sweet.
that will be next season they are casting Oberyn and Mace Tyrell for s4
On June 03 2013 19:38 unkkz wrote: Overall good episode, there's just one thing that annoys me with Jon lately and that is that, in the books he really wanted to be with the Wildlings, he liked them and respected them. He understood their struggle and it was a really tough choice he had to make - The Nightswatch or the free folk with someone he loved. I always pictured he only left out of honor and duty or whatever, being Ned Starks son and all.
But in the series it is so freaking obvious he is a "spy" as he keeps on trying to, very obviously and openly at that, to affect them not to attack and ofcourse the give away with the old man this episode when he scares the horses. All Jons screen time with the wildlings is filled with stuff like this, very obvious hints that he is still with the watch and the viewer has no doubt at all if he will indeed go back to the watch. I guess this is probably to reduced screen time, we don´t see his interactions with Thormund and stuff, we get no real feeling he has any form of connection to the wildlings at all.
Maybe i remember wrong but it felt like his connection to the wildlings was far greater in the books and the choice was a much harder one to make. He felt very bad about it iirc.
I think a lot of this stems from the scene where Jon kills Qhorim Halfhand, this was very differently done from in the books, where we see Qhorim tells Jon to kill him so he can survive and spy on the wildlings. Then later on he finds himself actually indentifying with the wildlings and falls into lust (love?) with Ygritte, so book Jon would have had a much harder time making the decision to escape and try to rejoin the watch, but does so out of his sense of honor.
In the show he is just defending himself from Qhorim which means his true motivation for joining the wildlings is just keeping his own ass alive. We also never get the idea that he might love Ygritte or even like any of the wildlings. Then he just escapes at the most opportune moment, so Jon's storyline is not quite as deep.
I think book Jon feels more bound by his sense of honor than show Jon, which kinda stinks. The good (bad?) news is that we get this different view of Ygritte when she tries to fight for Jon at the end even though he is making a break for it. I always imagined that Ygritte shot him with the arrow because she felt betrayed by him, it was more of an extremely jealous girlfriend thing than a "kill the traitor to the cause" type of thing. I always pictured her heart being broken by Jon leaving her, not by Jon really being a Crow the whole time.
On June 04 2013 03:09 SKC wrote: She is definatelly not confirmed to be pregnant in the books, it was just a theory. This basically kills that theory, but doesn't change much about the future books. I guess you could say it spoils the fact she won't be a major character in the future.
Pretty much my thoughts. Was kinda an interesting tidbit for the readers closing a rather annoying little plot "hole"?
The only thing that has me curious with this episode is I really didn't expect the siege of Yunkai to be pretty much "over". What the hell is planned for the next episode. I was kinda expecting a more focused episode with this one, and instead they advanced pretty much every storyline.
From that episode description floating around we are likely going to see a scene of Joffrey disgustingly joyful at the events that transpired while everyone else is trying to wash his hands of it leading to a confrontation with Tywin. I though the 10th was going to be Dany heavy, but there really isn't all that much unless they make her reach her next destination in one episode. Just hoping it's not too much filler.
On a side note... Being a reader and going on other threads is delicious. IGN comment thread on the review (Matt Fowler loved the episode) had a delicious comment: R.I.P Cat Stark with an image. The only replies were like chuckles and giggles.
Well, since the TV producers have been liberal with re-ordering story points and whatnot, it's entirely feasible (especially with the last Melisandre scene and the leeches) for both Balon and Joffrey to bite the dust in the season finale, which would be fucking sweet.
Nah, there is no way they'd kill off Joffrey with such short notice, especially since they haven't introduced the Martells at all. Balon's death is definitely a possibility though.
That could make a pretty awesome hook for the next season.
Show Balon dying in the last moments and remind the audience of Stannis' ritual. What could be more interesting to viewers than seeing Joffrey dead?
On June 04 2013 04:20 TheFish7 wrote: Yea someone else said this, but an UnCat reveal would be a great way to end the season.
I don't know if that is dramatic enough. Stoneheart in the books is pretty lame. She almost isn't even a real character, as much as just a plot device. In fact, I'd say it is one of GRRM's biggest mistakes in the series (so far). I really wish he had done that better, or just not brought her back at all.
Were the Stannis leeches in the books? Because personally I don't like their presence in the show right now. It's giving Joffrey's death too much predictability now that Robb got offed.
On June 04 2013 04:39 dudeman001 wrote: Were the Stannis leeches in the books? Because personally I don't like their presence in the show right now. It's giving Joffrey's death too much predictability now that Robb got offed.
I'm not sure if it was exactly leeches, but I think there was definitely something about 3 usurpers dead, might be I remember it wrongly though.
On June 04 2013 04:39 dudeman001 wrote: Were the Stannis leeches in the books? Because personally I don't like their presence in the show right now. It's giving Joffrey's death too much predictability now that Robb got offed.
The Leeches were in the book, and it's not as if everyone doesn't realize that Joffrey will die at some point.
On June 04 2013 04:39 dudeman001 wrote: Were the Stannis leeches in the books? Because personally I don't like their presence in the show right now. It's giving Joffrey's death too much predictability now that Robb got offed.
The Leeches were in the book, and it's not as if everyone doesn't realize that Joffrey will die at some point.
If I remember correct in the book Melisandre ain't sure if leeches are gonna work, because she never done that big with just leeches, she wanted to sacrifice Edric Storm
On June 03 2013 22:22 TheAura wrote: Robb was hit by arrows in the book as well... It was frey's grandson in the books, one of many...
I do agree there could have been a bit more of a fight, but they decided to instead focus on Talisa/Robb which i think was a good change.
There was also armor in the books that gave it away just before it happened like in the show, only in the books catelyn felt the armor underneath a freys clothing when she grabbed his arm. She slapped him just like she did to roose.
Yea, he was hit, one in the shoulder, and one in the leg. Then he was covered, and men started to protect him. You can recover from that, there is a possible way out for him.
In the series he gets multiple shot(s) in the chest, and collapses on the ground, looks like he blacked out, noone protects him. He looks dead, he has no chance. The Talisa/Robb stuff was a great addition, and i think it does not prohibit a fight for the Stark's life.
Walder had numerous wives, clearly they mean nothing to him. In Westeros, the sons/grandsons hold most of the value in a family. Okay, it was his grandson, not son, my mistake, but i think he still has more value, than a wife. But it doesn't really matter.
All thing considered all I really missed was the fight. Because thats the deciding factor. There is no chance in a massacre like in the series, but in the books the RW wasn't over till the last page.
I pictured the Red Wedding as a more festive atmosphere. In the book people were getting drunk, singing, talking about the horrible quality of the musicians (cause they weren't musicians afterall). Where was Umber outdrinking everyone and still managing to kill a couple Freys at the end of it all? Where was the wolf's head getting sown onto Robb's body?
That being said, I'm intrigued as to what will be included in the finale. Ygritte's death? Balon's death? Jaime reuniting with Cersei (for sexytime)? The wedding between Cersei and Loras called off due to Loras becoming part of the Kingsguard? Dany confronting and banishing Mormont? Sam meeting up with Bran? ...?
Where was Umber outdrinking everyone and still managing to kill a couple Freys at the end of it all?
Unfortunately the actor of the Greatjon wasn't available for this season because he had other commitments. Its a real shame because he was such a hilarious guy
Next episode we will most certainly see Balon's death/funeral, because there was a shot in the Season 3 trailer of Asha/Yara that wasn't shown yet.
Where was Umber outdrinking everyone and still managing to kill a couple Freys at the end of it all?
Unfortunately the actor of the Greatjon wasn't available for this season because he had other commitments. Its a real shame because he was such a hilarious guy
Next episode we will most certainly see Balon's death/funeral, because there was a shot in the Season 3 trailer of Asha/Yara that wasn't shown yet.
Highly doubt we'll see Balon's death next episode. It wouldn't make any sense for the show's pacing. Much more likely that happens early on next season.
On June 03 2013 22:22 TheAura wrote: Robb was hit by arrows in the book as well... It was frey's grandson in the books, one of many...
I do agree there could have been a bit more of a fight, but they decided to instead focus on Talisa/Robb which i think was a good change.
There was also armor in the books that gave it away just before it happened like in the show, only in the books catelyn felt the armor underneath a freys clothing when she grabbed his arm. She slapped him just like she did to roose.
Yea, he was hit, one in the shoulder, and one in the leg. Then he was covered, and men started to protect him. You can recover from that, there is a possible way out for him.
In the series he gets multiple shot(s) in the chest, and collapses on the ground, looks like he blacked out, noone protects him. He looks dead, he has no chance. The Talisa/Robb stuff was a great addition, and i think it does not prohibit a fight for the Stark's life.
Walder had numerous wives, clearly they mean nothing to him. In Westeros, the sons/grandsons hold most of the value in a family. Okay, it was his grandson, not son, my mistake, but i think he still has more value, than a wife. But it doesn't really matter.
All thing considered all I really missed was the fight. Because thats the deciding factor. There is no chance in a massacre like in the series, but in the books the RW wasn't over till the last page.
I pictured the Red Wedding as a more festive atmosphere. In the book people were getting drunk, singing, talking about the horrible quality of the musicians (cause they weren't musicians afterall). Where was Umber outdrinking everyone and still managing to kill a couple Freys at the end of it all? Where was the wolf's head getting sown onto Robb's body?
That being said, I'm intrigued as to what will be included in the finale. Ygritte's death? Balon's death? Jaime reuniting with Cersei (for sexytime)? The wedding between Cersei and Loras called off due to Loras becoming part of the Kingsguard? Dany confronting and banishing Mormont? Sam meeting up with Bran? ...?
There's still hope for the wolf head and Catelyn getting thrown into the river next episode I suppose, it does happen after the wedding. I don't think they'll show it considering how they already pussed out on Catelyn going mad at the wedding as she was supposed to. I thought they would go all the way on this, but they just skipped right over the most chilling aspect of the wedding, as well as the real birth of Lady Stoneheart. They'll probably just mention it down the road at some point.
Anyway, at this point in the book I'm almost positive Jorah will be banished next episode. Balon should be dying pretty soon as well.
Jaime and Cersei sexytime comes after Joffrey's death iirc. Ygritte hopefully will be kept in line with the book and shouldn't be dying for awhile.
Given that I haven't read the books yet, my question is what are the following 9th episodes (I love spoilers and theorycrafting, makes things for me actually more interesting)? I guess if Beric Dondarrion doesn't save Catelyn on screen, undead-Cat revealing is season 5 (or is it too early in time-line). Jon "definitely-not-Targaryen" Snow being stabbed is season 6. (Assuming that they roughly keep 6 seasons for 6 softcover books, as it would be fitting). What would be the season 4 shocking episode?
On June 03 2013 22:22 TheAura wrote: Robb was hit by arrows in the book as well... It was frey's grandson in the books, one of many...
I do agree there could have been a bit more of a fight, but they decided to instead focus on Talisa/Robb which i think was a good change.
There was also armor in the books that gave it away just before it happened like in the show, only in the books catelyn felt the armor underneath a freys clothing when she grabbed his arm. She slapped him just like she did to roose.
Yea, he was hit, one in the shoulder, and one in the leg. Then he was covered, and men started to protect him. You can recover from that, there is a possible way out for him.
In the series he gets multiple shot(s) in the chest, and collapses on the ground, looks like he blacked out, noone protects him. He looks dead, he has no chance. The Talisa/Robb stuff was a great addition, and i think it does not prohibit a fight for the Stark's life.
Walder had numerous wives, clearly they mean nothing to him. In Westeros, the sons/grandsons hold most of the value in a family. Okay, it was his grandson, not son, my mistake, but i think he still has more value, than a wife. But it doesn't really matter.
All thing considered all I really missed was the fight. Because thats the deciding factor. There is no chance in a massacre like in the series, but in the books the RW wasn't over till the last page.
That being said, I'm intrigued as to what will be included in the finale.
My guesses:
Ygritte's death? no Balon's death? yes Jaime reuniting with Cersei (for sexytime)? yes, maybe without sexytime tho The wedding between Cersei and Loras called off due to Loras becoming part of the Kingsguard? not sure Dany confronting and banishing Mormont? yes Sam meeting up with Bran? ...? yes
Also Gendry escaping. And they will probably have to do Cat resurrection. Maybe as the last scene of the season.
I think a last scene with unCat opening her eyes or so would be just the kind of magic/awesome bang they always looked for the season finale. You had dragons in the first season, white walkers in the 2nd and unCat seems fitting also for the myhsa episode title
On June 04 2013 04:17 TheFish7 wrote: I think a lot of this stems from the scene where Jon kills Qhorim Halfhand, this was very differently done from in the books, where we see Qhorim tells Jon to kill him so he can survive and spy on the wildlings.
On June 04 2013 05:34 animagne wrote: Given that I haven't read the books yet, my question is what are the following 9th episodes (I love spoilers and theorycrafting, makes things for me actually more interesting)? I guess if Beric Dondarrion doesn't save Catelyn on screen, undead-Cat revealing is season 5 (or is it too early in time-line). Jon "definitely-not-Targaryen" Snow being stabbed is season 6. (Assuming that they roughly keep 6 seasons for 6 softcover books, as it would be fitting). What would be the season 4 shocking episode?
I'm not sure they will fit that in 6 seasons, I think it's very possible it will take more than that. It would also lead to a very awkward situation unless Martin really speeds up his writing speed for the last book. Either way I doubt every season will manage such an amazing episode. There's still some really good stuff to do, like the batte at the Wall. We really have no idea how they are going to pace the show, and they can easily change the order some events appear. They should do that, since copying the books in that regard would be terrible.
EPT
