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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On June 03 2013 22:48 Bagi wrote:
All this buzz about the show right now makes me kinda scared from seasons 5 and onwards. The latter part of Storm of Swords still has plenty of amazing material to work with, but after that it gets really rough when we hit AFFC and ADWD territory. Will anyone really care about the Greyjoys and Martells? Tyrion going into foreign lands with people we've never heard of before? Arya doing NOTHING for entire seasons? I think the Starks feel like an even bigger "emotional core" in the show compared to the books, what happens when the story shifts even more away from them?
I guess they are banking on Daenerys to carry much of it but goddamn do I hate her character already. Being the only major character operating outside of Westeros you know from the start that her plot armor is thicker than anyone elses. Never got the fascination with dragons in fantasy either.
Starks will still account for the most POVs, only matched by Greyjoys if they decide to follow Aeron (I personally see him and Areo as the two POVs you can throw away the most). Remember the fans will be excited by Jon as Lord Commander and Arya will train to be a Faceless Man
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On June 03 2013 22:22 TheAura wrote:
Robb was hit by arrows in the book as well... It was frey's grandson in the books, one of many...
I do agree there could have been a bit more of a fight, but they decided to instead focus on Talisa/Robb which i think was a good change.
There was also armor in the books that gave it away just before it happened like in the show, only in the books catelyn felt the armor underneath a freys clothing when she grabbed his arm. She slapped him just like she did to roose.
Yea, he was hit, one in the shoulder, and one in the leg. Then he was covered, and men started to protect him. You can recover from that, there is a possible way out for him.
In the series he gets multiple shot(s) in the chest, and collapses on the ground, looks like he blacked out, noone protects him. He looks dead, he has no chance.
The Talisa/Robb stuff was a great addition, and i think it does not prohibit a fight for the Stark's life.
Walder had numerous wives, clearly they mean nothing to him. In Westeros, the sons/grandsons hold most of the value in a family.
Okay, it was his grandson, not son, my mistake, but i think he still has more value, than a wife. But it doesn't really matter.
All thing considered all I really missed was the fight. Because thats the deciding factor. There is no chance in a massacre like in the series, but in the books the RW wasn't over till the last page.
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Bah, more grand sons just means more trouble for him to try to find him a match. He loved when his sons and grandsons tried to maneuver and out scheme each other, survival of the fittest in the Frey family. Jinglebell was dim witted anyways, Walder Frey didn't give 2 shits about him
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Amazing episode, I loved how they did the red wedding overall, but it's not the only part of he episode.
The part where Arya smashed the old man down was rly funny, the look on the Hounds face was priceless.
The fight with Jon and the wildlings could have gone better, now it looks like he just ran of from Tormund Giantsbane.
They should have left 1 or 2 extra wildlings in that scene, and hoped for a long range arrow after Ygritte's shock.
Also, just saw the preview for next episode:
+ Show Spoiler +
(Image in spoiler tag to make it smaller)
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On June 03 2013 22:48 Bagi wrote:
All this buzz about the show right now makes me kinda scared from seasons 5 and onwards. The latter part of Storm of Swords still has plenty of amazing material to work with, but after that it gets really rough when we hit AFFC and ADWD territory. Will anyone really care about the Greyjoys and Martells? Tyrion going into foreign lands with people we've never heard of before? Arya doing NOTHING for entire seasons? I think the Starks feel like an even bigger "emotional core" in the show compared to the books, what happens when the story shifts even more away from them?
I guess they are banking on Daenerys to carry much of it but goddamn do I hate her character already. Being the only major character operating outside of Westeros you know from the start that her plot armor is thicker than anyone elses. Never got the fascination with dragons in fantasy either.
Considering that AFFC and ADWD are simultaneously occurring, the TV producers could merge the stories together into a coherent story and prevent the minutia of the series (e.g. Martells and some Ironborn stuff) from overwhelming the storyline. By combining the storylines, they can have Jon and the Wall whilst advancing the secondary families in their stories, which do pick up around ADWD and TWOW. As for the Starks and Tyrion, there is Jon with the Wall, and Arya will show periodically if they combine the fourth and fifth books, and Tyrion exploring Essos will be fairly interesting. Dany was bound to be slow, and I don't think the producers could change it much, unless they really are banking on TWOW revitalizing interest into her.
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On June 03 2013 23:29 Tiwo wrote:Amazing episode, I loved how they did the red wedding overall, but it's not the only part of he episode. The part where Arya smashed the old man down was rly funny, the look on the Hounds face was priceless. The fight with Jon and the wildlings could have gone better, now it looks like he just ran of from Tormund Giantsbane. They should have left 1 or 2 extra wildlings in that scene, and hoped for a long range arrow after Ygritte's shock. Also, just saw the preview for next episode: + Show Spoiler +(Image in spoiler tag to make it smaller)
Arya killing the Tickler can't happen in the next episode since he got killed by Jaqen H'ghar in the series. :-(
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On June 03 2013 23:49 SnoWhiTe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 23:29 Tiwo wrote:Amazing episode, I loved how they did the red wedding overall, but it's not the only part of he episode. The part where Arya smashed the old man down was rly funny, the look on the Hounds face was priceless. The fight with Jon and the wildlings could have gone better, now it looks like he just ran of from Tormund Giantsbane. They should have left 1 or 2 extra wildlings in that scene, and hoped for a long range arrow after Ygritte's shock. Also, just saw the preview for next episode: + Show Spoiler +(Image in spoiler tag to make it smaller) Arya killing the Tickler can't happen in the next episode since he got killed by Jaqen H'ghar in the series. :-(
You're right! I guess it's gonna be just Polliver who stole her Needle then? She is just gonna rage I guess because of the RW and all that happened. She might still say the lines, since he was a part of the torture, kinda.
What u think?
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overall great chapter, but i miss they didnt show how Robs wolf was uneasy during the travel, and i think also that before dying Rob feel his wolf or warg into him or something... also, the guest right man! come one they even ate bread and salt damn!
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Arya will probably kill Polliver since he is the one who took Needle from her and is still alive. But we will lose the interrogation rage kill. Plus Arya hasn't killed anyone in the show since the stable boy.
I don't really think Talisa dying means anything as far as the books goes. Except perhaps that if Jeyne has a son, he won't be the king of the seven kingdoms at the very end. But they change so many things for the show, I don't really think it means much of anything for the books. Like with Dany's story, Jhaqo is the guy Drogo ripped the tongue out of in the TV show, but he is still alive and his khalasar finds Dany and Drogon in A Dance With Dragons. Cold Hands obviously plays a role in the book, but has so far been cut from the show. There are lots of characters who have been cut, reduced, or delayed significantly. Martin told HBO how the story ends, but even he hasn't worked out all the details on how they are going to get to that point. They may not matter to the ultimate end of the story, but that doesn't preclude them from important roles along the way.
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I just couldn't help but grin like an idiot when the musicians from the wedding started missing their notes while they were playing. I wonder how many non-book readers even noticed this or thought any of it.
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It looks like they are finally going to show some of the other Greyjoys other than Theon next episode. I think they kind of made them completely forgettable as a threat in the show. In the book they controlled Moat Cailin and were raiding the north, and that was the objective Robb had set to retake after the wedding. Robb did mention in this episode that Ironborn were overrunning the north, but we haven't seen any of it and we haven't been told that they have taken any other keeps besides Deepwood Motte which Yara took in season 2, and Winterfell which Theon took and lost. If the Ironborn were raiding the north as heavily as he implies then it makes little sense that Robb wouldn't be going to secure that first.
Of course considering Casterly Rock's geographic location, there was no way that plan would have made any sense in the first place. Even if the Freys had re-allied with him, there was no way he was marching his entire army to Casterly Rock and sieging it before the Lannister and Tyrell's came and broke the siege considering it is on top of a mountain and surely has at least some garrison in war time.
picture of Casterly Rock:
+ Show Spoiler +
Plus if that was ever an option to go for that rather obvious plan to take the Lannister homeland, he should have done it when he was already in the far west taking The Crag when he still had both the Karstarks and Freys as allies. Rather than marching his army 400+ miles back east to Harrenhal which ended up being abandoned.
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On June 03 2013 23:55 Tiwo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 23:49 SnoWhiTe wrote:On June 03 2013 23:29 Tiwo wrote:Amazing episode, I loved how they did the red wedding overall, but it's not the only part of he episode. The part where Arya smashed the old man down was rly funny, the look on the Hounds face was priceless. The fight with Jon and the wildlings could have gone better, now it looks like he just ran of from Tormund Giantsbane. They should have left 1 or 2 extra wildlings in that scene, and hoped for a long range arrow after Ygritte's shock. Also, just saw the preview for next episode: + Show Spoiler +(Image in spoiler tag to make it smaller) Arya killing the Tickler can't happen in the next episode since he got killed by Jaqen H'ghar in the series. :-( You're right! I guess it's gonna be just Polliver who stole her Needle then? She is just gonna rage I guess because of the RW and all that happened. She might still say the lines, since he was a part of the torture, kinda. What u think?
Don't think they're gonna stay with the lines. Would be too confusing for the non-readers.
But yeah like you said Arya would probably be in rage mode because of the RW. We'll see.
Speaking of the preview i'm also glad they're introducing the Greyjoy's succession arc, 'cause we saw Asha.
But I wonder what would be the cliffhanger for the next season. We don't have much expect for the wildlings preparing to take Castle Black, Coldhands who meets Sam, maybe Sam's gonna meet Bran and Coldhands at the same times..
Then we got Davos who might passes on the letter about the north to Stannis, but it might no be that much of a shock..
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On June 04 2013 00:16 Conti wrote:
I just couldn't help but grin like an idiot when the musicians from the wedding started missing their notes while they were playing. I wonder how many non-book readers even noticed this or thought any of it.
I didn't notice them miss any notes. In fact westeros.org notes that the show had competant musicians as a change from the book where they played terribly because they were all crossbowmen and soldiers.
Here is their episode review:
http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/The_Rains_of_Castamere/Book_Spoilers/#Analysis
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On June 04 2013 00:28 karazax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 00:16 Conti wrote:
I just couldn't help but grin like an idiot when the musicians from the wedding started missing their notes while they were playing. I wonder how many non-book readers even noticed this or thought any of it. I didn't notice them miss any notes. In fact westeros.org notes that the show had competant musicians as a change from the book where they played terribly because they were all crossbowmen and soldiers. Here is their episode review: http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/The_Rains_of_Castamere/Book_Spoilers/#Analysis
At some point around 38:30 in the episode I had to cringe from the music, though maybe that's just me not being used to old-timey string instruments. I've kind of stopped reading westeros.org episode reviews, they often remind me of those tolkien fansites that used to hate on the LotR films because they were not 100% like the books, and therefore utterly worthless. Or something.
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On June 04 2013 00:37 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 00:28 karazax wrote:On June 04 2013 00:16 Conti wrote:
I just couldn't help but grin like an idiot when the musicians from the wedding started missing their notes while they were playing. I wonder how many non-book readers even noticed this or thought any of it. I didn't notice them miss any notes. In fact westeros.org notes that the show had competant musicians as a change from the book where they played terribly because they were all crossbowmen and soldiers. Here is their episode review: http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/The_Rains_of_Castamere/Book_Spoilers/#Analysis At some point around 38:30 in the episode I had to cringe from the music, though maybe that's just me not being used to old-timey string instruments. I've kind of stopped reading westeros.org episode reviews, they often remind me of those tolkien fansites that used to hate on the LotR films because they were not 100% like the books, and therefore utterly worthless. Or something.
I don't think they're wrong tho, since even Talisa said "They're good aren't they ?" about the musicians, which the man beside her replies "They ought to be, because they cost enough"
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I wonder which punishment GRRM will give Walder Frey, he broke the sacred guestrules. He killed his guests in his house when they had eaten his bread and drunk his wine. If I remember correctly from the books it is against the old and new Gods, thats why Cat thought they would be shielded from any attempt by Walder Frey, but that old fucker just pissed at the Gods.
The whole Frey familyline surely must be cursed forever.
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Walder Frey is so old he is more likely to die of old age than epic revenge death. But I seem to recall Jamie or some other Lannister mentioning that perhaps the Lannisters might help kill him off to wash their name from the involvement in the Red Wedding, and that his heir wouldn't mind because he would finally be in charge. Of course Manderly gets a bit of revenge with his Frey Pie and the Brotherhood without Banners kills some Freys too.
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On June 03 2013 23:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 22:48 Bagi wrote:
All this buzz about the show right now makes me kinda scared from seasons 5 and onwards. The latter part of Storm of Swords still has plenty of amazing material to work with, but after that it gets really rough when we hit AFFC and ADWD territory. Will anyone really care about the Greyjoys and Martells? Tyrion going into foreign lands with people we've never heard of before? Arya doing NOTHING for entire seasons? I think the Starks feel like an even bigger "emotional core" in the show compared to the books, what happens when the story shifts even more away from them?
I guess they are banking on Daenerys to carry much of it but goddamn do I hate her character already. Being the only major character operating outside of Westeros you know from the start that her plot armor is thicker than anyone elses. Never got the fascination with dragons in fantasy either. Considering that AFFC and ADWD are simultaneously occurring, the TV producers could merge the stories together into a coherent story and prevent the minutia of the series (e.g. Martells and some Ironborn stuff) from overwhelming the storyline. By combining the storylines, they can have Jon and the Wall whilst advancing the secondary families in their stories, which do pick up around ADWD and TWOW. As for the Starks and Tyrion, there is Jon with the Wall, and Arya will show periodically if they combine the fourth and fifth books, and Tyrion exploring Essos will be fairly interesting. Dany was bound to be slow, and I don't think the producers could change it much, unless they really are banking on TWOW revitalizing interest into her.
I guess there is a lot of rewriting to be done, and hopefully they will be able to even surpass the source material in some places. But even so the upcoming books with the war over feel extremely light on meaningful story progression. Who would have expected that by the end of ADWD Dany still hadn't even met Tyrion and Victarion?
I'm pretty sure GOT is the most expensive show on TV right now and declines in viewership could very possibly kill it off prematurely. At the very least their budget will become much more limited.
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On June 03 2013 23:08 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 23:04 c0ldfusion wrote:On June 03 2013 22:48 Bagi wrote:
All this buzz about the show right now makes me kinda scared from seasons 5 and onwards. The latter part of Storm of Swords still has plenty of amazing material to work with, but after that it gets really rough when we hit AFFC and ADWD territory. Will anyone really care about the Greyjoys and Martells? Tyrion going into foreign lands with people we've never heard of before? Arya doing NOTHING for entire seasons? I think the Starks feel like an even bigger "emotional core" in the show compared to the books, what happens when the story shifts even more away from them?
I guess they are banking on Daenerys to carry much of it but goddamn do I hate her character already. Being the only major character operating outside of Westeros you know from the start that her plot armor is thicker than anyone elses. Never got the fascination with dragons in fantasy either. My guess is that they'll make changes and skip bits and pieces of the stuff that happens in Dorne. Not to mention that they might as well create entirely new subplots. And I, for one, welcome our new story overlords. Yes, the writers sometimes suck when they change a character or plot. But when they create an entirely new one? Most of the completely new scenes have been absolutely brilliant (just think of all the Tywin dialogues). They could give Dany something more to do than to sit around and wait for everyone to arrive, they could make the south more interesting and less confusing. There's lots of changes that could be done, and I hope they will be bold enough to make them.
They will postulate the Daario=Benjen theory to troll the tinfoil hat bookreaders, or the various other reader theories of various credibility. Expect to see an entire episode exploring the importance of Tommen's kittens to the understanding of the story as a whole. :D
Also, I'm fairly certain there's still several major storylines to be explored. Tyrion and Oberyn would be a season ender by itself (and/or kinslaying time for Tyrion). Plus, well, watching Dany crash and burn in a manner of speaking would also be quite interesting (and for me, cathartic). Stannis at the Wall and in the North, and working with no-nothing Juuuun snuuuh, watching the political situation in Kings Landing implode, etc, and there's plenty of plotlines to follow (the books starting with AFFC/ADWD does begin to adopt an absurd amount of parallel plotlines/PoVs: it's almost like Turtledove in a sense).
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United States7166 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/0/08/Arya_tickler_by_tribemun.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.tonycliffordfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Casterly-Rock-and-Lannisport.jpg)
