EPTedit: wow I like that theory that Howland warged into Arthur so that Eddard could live/slay Arthur
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 140
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
edit: wow I like that theory that Howland warged into Arthur so that Eddard could live/slay Arthur | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
There's a theory out there that he's not actually Aegon, but Illyrio's son by his now dead wife Serra. (Who supposedely had Targ/Blackfyre features) According to the theory, Varys and Illyrio are/were using Dany/Viserys as a sort of distraction until Aegon was ready, or something of that sort. (Or alternatively they plan to marry Aegon to Dany) I have no idea. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On June 02 2012 14:35 1Eris1 wrote: young griff=blackfyre There's a theory out there that he's not actually Aegon, but Illyrio's son by his now dead wife Serra. (Who supposedely had Targ/Blackfyre features) According to the theory, Varys and Illyrio are/were using Dany/Viserys as a sort of distraction until Aegon was ready, or something of that sort. (Or alternatively they plan to marry Aegon to Dany) I have no idea. So basically the theory that Young Griff isn't actually Aegon but a false Targ? Whenever I think of Blackfyre I think of false/bastard Targs. | ||
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Maginor
Norway505 Posts
On June 02 2012 14:49 sung_moon wrote: So basically the theory that Young Griff isn't actually Aegon but a false Targ? Whenever I think of Blackfyre I think of false/bastard Targs. It would make him a descendant of Aegon IV. If that is true, Stannis is more a Targaryen than him, though not in visible features. (Stannis is a descendant of Aegon V). | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
Also, whether he's a BF or Aegon or really whatever else, I don't think that they were ever using Dany/Viserys as a distraction. The Griffon guy (forgot his name, the guy gay for Rhaegar) mentioned something about how first Viserys was suppoed to join them w/ Drogo's army, then Dany was supposed to come, then this, then that, and he's like 'fuck it we're going on our own.' I think that they kept altering the plan like its actually suggested. No matter how well u plan thers always going to be shit you cannot control. Basically I don't think that it's a huge master plan as it sorta sounds, and theyre just rolling with the punches to meet their goals (whatever they are). Can the Dunk and Egg tales be found online? I'd like to read them but I'd rather not pay anything.. =D | ||
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Lorken
New Zealand804 Posts
On June 02 2012 15:34 Crazyeyes wrote: Blackfyres are bastard targs, yes? Also, whether he's a BF or Aegon or really whatever else, I don't think that they were ever using Dany/Viserys as a distraction. The Griffon guy (forgot his name, the guy gay for Rhaegar) mentioned something about how first Viserys was suppoed to join them w/ Drogo's army, then Dany was supposed to come, then this, then that, and he's like 'fuck it we're going on our own.' I think that they kept altering the plan like its actually suggested. No matter how well u plan thers always going to be shit you cannot control. Basically I don't think that it's a huge master plan as it sorta sounds, and theyre just rolling with the punches to meet their goals (whatever they are). Can the Dunk and Egg tales be found online? I'd like to read them but I'd rather not pay anything.. =D Library bro. Also, I'm now convinced Stannis is dead. It's just like him to give us the "he's dead" letter so everyone thinks it's bullshit and then he's actually dead. And I think he's played the rumours of people being dead without them dying too much so he's going to do one for real now. I won't be as sad as when I thought Davos died though. | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
On June 02 2012 16:14 Lorken wrote: Library bro. Also, I'm now convinced Stannis is dead. It's just like him to give us the "he's dead" letter so everyone thinks it's bullshit and then he's actually dead. And I think he's played the rumours of people being dead without them dying too much so he's going to do one for real now. I won't be as sad as when I thought Davos died though. Not to spoil anything but wasn't it already confimed that the letter was a lie in the chapter Martin released on his webpage? | ||
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Lorken
New Zealand804 Posts
On June 02 2012 16:29 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Not to spoil anything but wasn't it already confimed that the letter was a lie in the chapter Martin released on his webpage? The Theon chapter? I thought it was before the letter though? Bolton says his false king is dead and he has his magic sword and he knew about Mance Rayder. I just re read the letter and I think it proves I'm wrong as well though, because he said "he and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle" and I'm pretty sure none of the armies were in any condition for a seven day battle, and he says he doesn't have his Reek back as well, which he should have if he defeated Stannis. I thought it was hilarious that he calls Jon Bastard throughout the letter but he signs it "Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell" but it really could have been sent from anyone. Also, anyone got a body count on Arya? That girl is a beast. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Lorken
New Zealand804 Posts
On June 02 2012 16:56 Incognoto wrote: I'm much more interested in whether or not Jon stays alive or not. He's like the most friendly person in the world to wildlings and for good reason. We know nothing. I'm sure he isn't dead. There's not enough books left right now to introduce big characters to take his place. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
Too many cliff hangers from the end of that book u_u... | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Major, Major spoilers ahead for anyone who didn't finish the last book, up until the last chapter! + Show Spoiler + Either way I don't think Jon died. Wounded badly, yes, perhaps even mutilated Like Tyrion or Jaime, but I don't think he's dead. But his assassination attempt will stir shit up and perhaps he'll start heeding Melisandre's advice. I don't like the idea of going to Hardhome (if that's the right name). Yeah it sucks that an army of wights will form there but I think that that's inevitable, there's nothing that can be done about it. Might as well face it at the Wall with the defender's advantage than out in the open where the Others are the most comfortable. Especially with dead things in the water too... lol. The only way they're going to fight that is with dragons. Dany needs to bring her ass and the three lizards she's got with her to the Wall. Aemon said that she was the chosen one! Not Stannis! Melisandre fucked up. That's why I hope Stannis died. Stannis and his bitch of a wife can die for all I care. The Khalasar that found Dany and Drogon .... I'm not sure what will happen. The only thing that's for certain is that Drogon lives. If there's anything that I'm sure of is that the dragons won't be killed, nothing can kill. If Tyrion's sources can be trusted, only a pointy thing in the eye (and to the brain) can kill a dragon, anything else will just piss the dragon off. Makes sort of sense when Westoros was conquered by three dragons. I think that the Khalasar will either flee from Drogon or will join up with Dany. Khal's are chosen by being the toughest sons of whores, Drogon is the toughest. I think the Khalasar will realize that and just join Dany's cause. But that's too easy so I'm not sure that will happen. I'm pretty sure that Cersei will survive her trial but lose everything else. She'll be strangled by Tyrion at some other time. Either way Varys killing off Kevan clearly shows his allegiance to the Targaryens. Something I've suspected all along to be frank. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On June 02 2012 14:49 sung_moon wrote: So basically the theory that Young Griff isn't actually Aegon but a false Targ? Whenever I think of Blackfyre I think of false/bastard Targs. also known as Faegon (fake/false Aegon). | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
On June 02 2012 18:02 Incognoto wrote: There are two books left right? Major, Major spoilers ahead for anyone who didn't finish the last book, up until the last chapter! + Show Spoiler + Either way I don't think Jon died. Wounded badly, yes, perhaps even mutilated Like Tyrion or Jaime, but I don't think he's dead. But his assassination attempt will stir shit up and perhaps he'll start heeding Melisandre's advice. I don't like the idea of going to Hardhome (if that's the right name). Yeah it sucks that an army of wights will form there but I think that that's inevitable, there's nothing that can be done about it. Might as well face it at the Wall with the defender's advantage than out in the open where the Others are the most comfortable. Especially with dead things in the water too... lol. The only way they're going to fight that is with dragons. Dany needs to bring her ass and the three lizards she's got with her to the Wall. Aemon said that she was the chosen one! Not Stannis! Melisandre fucked up. That's why I hope Stannis died. Stannis and his bitch of a wife can die for all I care. The Khalasar that found Dany and Drogon .... I'm not sure what will happen. The only thing that's for certain is that Drogon lives. If there's anything that I'm sure of is that the dragons won't be killed, nothing can kill. If Tyrion's sources can be trusted, only a pointy thing in the eye (and to the brain) can kill a dragon, anything else will just piss the dragon off. Makes sort of sense when Westoros was conquered by three dragons. I think that the Khalasar will either flee from Drogon or will join up with Dany. Khal's are chosen by being the toughest sons of whores, Drogon is the toughest. I think the Khalasar will realize that and just join Dany's cause. But that's too easy so I'm not sure that will happen. I'm pretty sure that Cersei will survive her trial but lose everything else. She'll be strangled by Tyrion at some other time. Either way Varys killing off Kevan clearly shows his allegiance to the Targaryens. Something I've suspected all along to be frank. When did Aemon say she was the chosen one? | ||
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Blackfish
Austria309 Posts
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Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
On June 02 2012 19:10 Blackfish wrote: What i´m interested in the most is what will happen with the Victarion plot. It just seems so unreal for me. I don´t know if I should say bad but I sometimes just don´t see the sense at all behind Eurons ideas. This shit cannot work for real... I have always thought that Victorians purpose was to help Dany by breaking the lock down of Meereens harbour and provide Dany with ships to get back to Westeros | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
On June 02 2012 18:02 Incognoto wrote: There are two books left right? Major, Major spoilers ahead for anyone who didn't finish the last book, up until the last chapter! + Show Spoiler + Either way I don't think Jon died. Wounded badly, yes, perhaps even mutilated Like Tyrion or Jaime, but I don't think he's dead. But his assassination attempt will stir shit up and perhaps he'll start heeding Melisandre's advice. I don't like the idea of going to Hardhome (if that's the right name). Yeah it sucks that an army of wights will form there but I think that that's inevitable, there's nothing that can be done about it. Might as well face it at the Wall with the defender's advantage than out in the open where the Others are the most comfortable. Especially with dead things in the water too... lol. The only way they're going to fight that is with dragons. Dany needs to bring her ass and the three lizards she's got with her to the Wall. Aemon said that she was the chosen one! Not Stannis! Melisandre fucked up. That's why I hope Stannis died. Stannis and his bitch of a wife can die for all I care. The Khalasar that found Dany and Drogon .... I'm not sure what will happen. The only thing that's for certain is that Drogon lives. If there's anything that I'm sure of is that the dragons won't be killed, nothing can kill. If Tyrion's sources can be trusted, only a pointy thing in the eye (and to the brain) can kill a dragon, anything else will just piss the dragon off. Makes sort of sense when Westoros was conquered by three dragons. I think that the Khalasar will either flee from Drogon or will join up with Dany. Khal's are chosen by being the toughest sons of whores, Drogon is the toughest. I think the Khalasar will realize that and just join Dany's cause. But that's too easy so I'm not sure that will happen. I'm pretty sure that Cersei will survive her trial but lose everything else. She'll be strangled by Tyrion at some other time. Either way Varys killing off Kevan clearly shows his allegiance to the Targaryens. Something I've suspected all along to be frank. Follow in those matters, and more spoilers, though it seems redundant to warn about them here: I'm not sold on Varys being loyal to the Targaryens. I think he is loyal to the realm in a "what is best for the little people" way and that happens to mean the Targaryens and particularly his possibly/probably fake Targaryen who has been vetted to be a great and just ruler. The book mentions a few times how much more prosperous the realm was even under the bad Targaryens like the mad king than with the less commanding and more squabble prone lords and their game of thrones. It seems to add up. I'm in camp "Jaime kills Cersei". People other than Quaithe being wrong in their assumptions about what the object or actor of a prophecy is while the reader is given hints or blatantly told the truth is the slightly overused standard and with that one it's Jaime as Cersei's killer valonquar. Also, Tyrion not getting what he wants is one of the other near constants of the story so why would he get to strangle Cersei? The Khalasar that Dany ran into is one of the ones led by a ko turned khal she promised herself would die screaming so I've envisioned that the book cut to black right before the "dracarys" was uttered. Dany's future is really weird to try to predict though, I doubt I'd put more than 5% stake in any given idea. The main/recent hint that comes to mind is that GRRM has talked a lot in the last couple years about how one of the important elements of the story is a difference between gaining power and then being able to use that power and while Robert is the example he cites it is pretty clear in book 5 that Dany is the relevant instance at this point. She might well conquer the world, but she can't govern a single large city...and she can't have children so she will not be the start of any new dynasties. I just barely favor her living to the end if only because she might be about the only way to control these first generation post-resurrection dragons and I do not think GRRM would end it quite so 'coldly' as to give the intelligentsia of the citadel it's wish of a post magic world by killing them. Between: Jon being one of the stories ~3.5 characters of apparently premium importance who has not yet reached any kind of climax; that the prologue to adwd was all about establishing some facts of wargs and not quite dying normally; melisandre's stuff about him; and the writing on the wall truth of R+L=J and Jon as one of the three heads has me thinking similarly on Jon. His human body might be done at 'worst', but he is not gone. Stannis is toast. He almost needs to be dead by the time Targaryen banners start rising and he's done his job of bringing southron attention and Melisandre to the wall and keeping things stirred against the power residing in King's Landing. He is disposable now and when has any character other than Tyrion who wasn't disposable survived 5 minutes after becoming so? One chekhov's gun we have been handed that I am eager to see come into action is the matter of the dragons liking/being drawn to blood of the dragon. What they do when they first sniff (warg with?!) Jon/(F?)Aegon will likely be the first/primary confirmation to those theories, as well as could help free up Dany to die. The one I've never seen credible speculation on, and it's probably just because there is almost nothing to even guess from, is where does Arya come into it? Joking "who will have the biggest body count by the end, her or drogon? I think he just might have a chance at keeping up." is all I have. I just want to throw this one out there. Is it too crazy to wonder if it might not all be about blood and Tyrion is a head? It does not seem right for him to remain the most prolific pov and most interesting character while only ever being a supporting role in events. Furthermore it seems like the characters who are the heads should have been introduced by now, and the "mummer's dragon" can hardly be one of the three heads of the dragon of prophecy so I do not buy the common assumption that faegon is one of them. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On June 02 2012 20:07 Irrelevant Label wrote: Follow in those matters, and more spoilers, though it seems redundant to warn about them here: I'm not sold on Varys being loyal to the Targaryens. I think he is loyal to the realm in a "what is best for the little people" way and that happens to mean the Targaryens and particularly his possibly/probably fake Targaryen who has been vetted to be a great and just ruler. The book mentions a few times how much more prosperous the realm was even under the bad Targaryens like the mad king than with the less commanding and more squabble prone lords and their game of thrones. It seems to add up. I'm in camp "Jaime kills Cersei". People other than Quaithe being wrong in their assumptions about what the object or actor of a prophecy is while the reader is given hints or blatantly told the truth is the slightly overused standard and with that one it's Jaime as Cersei's killer valonquar. Also, Tyrion not getting what he wants is one of the other near constants of the story so why would he get to strangle Cersei? The Khalasar that Dany ran into is one of the ones led by a ko turned khal she promised herself would die screaming so I've envisioned that the book cut to black right before the "dracarys" was uttered. Dany's future is really weird to try to predict though, I doubt I'd put more than 5% stake in any given idea. The main/recent hint that comes to mind is that GRRM has talked a lot in the last couple years about how one of the important elements of the story is a difference between gaining power and then being able to use that power and while Robert is the example he cites it is pretty clear in book 5 that Dany is the relevant instance at this point. She might well conquer the world, but she can't govern a single large city...and she can't have children so she will not be the start of any new dynasties. I just barely favor her living to the end if only because she might be about the only way to control these first generation post-resurrection dragons and I do not think GRRM would end it quite so 'coldly' as to give the intelligentsia of the citadel it's wish of a post magic world by killing them. Between: Jon being one of the stories ~3.5 characters of apparently premium importance who has not yet reached any kind of climax; that the prologue to adwd was all about establishing some facts of wargs and not quite dying normally; melisandre's stuff about him; and the writing on the wall truth of R+L=J and Jon as one of the three heads has me thinking similarly on Jon. His human body might be done at 'worst', but he is not gone. Stannis is toast. He almost needs to be dead by the time Targaryen banners start rising and he's done his job of bringing southron attention and Melisandre to the wall and keeping things stirred against the power residing in King's Landing. He is disposable now and when has any character other than Tyrion who wasn't disposable survived 5 minutes after becoming so? One chekhov's gun we have been handed that I am eager to see come into action is the matter of the dragons liking/being drawn to blood of the dragon. What they do when they first sniff (warg with?!) Jon/(F?)Aegon will likely be the first/primary confirmation to those theories, as well as could help free up Dany to die. The one I've never seen credible speculation on, and it's probably just because there is almost nothing to even guess from, is where does Arya come into it? Joking "who will have the biggest body count by the end, her or drogon? I think he just might have a chance at keeping up." is all I have. I just want to throw this one out there. Is it too crazy to wonder if it might not all be about blood and Tyrion is a head? It does not seem right for him to remain the most prolific pov and most interesting character while only ever being a supporting role in events. Furthermore it seems like the characters who are the heads should have been introduced by now, and the "mummer's dragon" can hardly be one of the three heads of the dragon of prophecy so I do not buy the common assumption that faegon is one of them. Most people agree that Arya will be sent to assasinate one of the top 10 most important players, my bet goes for Littlefinger, dont ask me why, im a gambling man. About Tyrion being a head, i've heard that before, and it kinda makes sense, and we know about his obsession with dragons and dreams of dragons and stuff. also it would stand to reason that the 3 dragonriders were with us throughout the whole story and that really leaves Tyrion+Jon as 2nd and 3rd riders. (or Gendry i guess, lol) The northic war is a clusterfuck, i wont speculate, there are too many info out there some of it must be wrong, i ll just wait that one out. And yeah, jon is not dead, i d lay it 10-1 | ||
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MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On his deathbed, he said that to Samwell, in Braavos. Feast for Crows I believe. Yeah Irrelevant Label that all seems like good ideas. I just disagree about Cersei's death. Jaime loves her, even if he didn't come to King's Landing in her defense (as stated in his thoughts, he's maimed and wouldn't have been able to save her). Valonquar means "little brother" in high valyrian though, which definitely points to Tyrion. That said, I do believe Cersei was born before Jaime so it's possible that Jaime could kill her... The entire story seems to revolve around things happening when we least expect them to. Arya will be interesting to follow for sure but I'm not sure who should would assassinate. Littlefinger maybe, but I feel that Littlefinger will deal with Jaime and Brienne. For Sansa that is. I thought Brienne was dead btw, but apparently she isn't. That's interesting. I wouldn't have minded her death. I wonder if she and Jaime will end up in a relationship or not. | ||
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