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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 15 2012 14:15 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 07:08 moopie wrote:On May 15 2012 06:35 OrderlyChaos wrote:
I just don't see the need to change some of the great things in the story. Why/how did Ser Rodrick come back to Winterfell alone? what did he expect would happen when he heard Winterfell was taken by the Ironmen?? Why did they downplay the power struggle between Cersei and Tyrion in KL? Why was it necessary to go into "Evil Joffrey is Evil" so many times, like with the whores and all that? its not like the viewers will forget and then go "oh yeah, that Joffrey guy is evil isn't he".
meh. Roddrick had liberated Torren's Square and was riding back to Winterfell with some small bodyguard probably and got jumped.
Leaves with the entire garrison of 200 men (in the show, in the book it was 600 iirc). Arrives at Torrhen's Square, sees the Ironmen left. Regardless of if he knew that it was a ruse to draw him out from Winterfell, he'd come back with his 200 men (or at least most of them). The show has him coming back alone. Sure it lets them write a half-assed scene where they can kill him off easily, but it doesn't make any sense. Theon has what? like 30 guys with him? most of which were obviously not even involved in the capture of Rodrick as Theon hears about it surrounded by most of his soldiers.
The exact dialogue of when Theon hears the news: "We caught this one on his way back from Torrhen's Square. Took out two of ours before I got his sword". Now between the "this one" and the fact the ironmen only lost 2 soldiers in his capture, its safe to say he was 100% alone. If the 200 men weren't with him where were they? even if he rode on ahead by a day or so (completely alone, for whatever stupidity), they'd still get to Winterfell soon after. The writers just ignored it all.
Also where's the chain? we only have 1 more episode before the Blackwater and there hasn't been any mention of it. Tyrion was supposed to be putting it together all season-long.. Will they build it all in a single episode? will they decide to drop that too?
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Is it possible he led his troops to capture Torrhen's Square... left his garrison there... and returned alone to report it was garrisoned and to take command back of Winterfell? Who knows.
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That just assumes that he's an absolute idiot. Its not good writing. The guy has been a master at arms at the service of Winterfell for years as well as a seasoned knight and military advisor, he's not supposed to be Hodor.
Again, Ironmen running around in the north, he gets there and realizes they moved elsewhere. Lets travel alone through the north? lets not return any of Winterfell's defenses? Its silly, and it still doesn't explain why the 200 Stark guards don't come to Winterfell when news arrives that Theon has taken it (or when no news of Rodrick returns).
+ Show Spoiler +I'll stop ranting for now, promise
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You are assuming. Nowhere does it say he got there and they were gone. We just know Theon went there first and his main force went to Winterfell. It's possible he left some troops behind which Rodrick's troops defeated and Rodrick came back to report the victory. It is possible Rodrick's troops came upon there and realized there was a lack of troops there so Rodrick raced back to Winterfell to report a possible incoming attack.
The point is... there is a lot of possibilities for how it happened. Just because it wasn't spoon fed to you, doesn't mean it's poor writing (and trust me... I think this show is dreadfully overpraised).
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man, nobody has complained about the dragonglass being found? It's not even shown in TV yet and Jon is already captured.. might be possible that it's going to be tackled in Season 3 and 4.
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On May 16 2012 19:56 Licmyobelisk wrote:
nobody has complained
You're right, its quite baffling. Something that hasnt been complained about.
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On May 15 2012 14:31 mmp wrote:
Why does Dagmar hold the nut shells and say 'I think I've found what we're looking for' ?
The audience knows that Rickon eats nuts, but how does Dagmar know that?
I think the writers just ignored that, or assumed that people wouldn't notice. The only really plausible explanations are that maybe Theon knew from being around Rickon growing up, or maybe the hounds kept going for walnut shells along the way.
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On May 15 2012 17:40 moopie wrote:That just assumes that he's an absolute idiot. Its not good writing. The guy has been a master at arms at the service of Winterfell for years as well as a seasoned knight and military advisor, he's not supposed to be Hodor. Again, Ironmen running around in the north, he gets there and realizes they moved elsewhere. Lets travel alone through the north? lets not return any of Winterfell's defenses? Its silly, and it still doesn't explain why the 200 Stark guards don't come to Winterfell when news arrives that Theon has taken it (or when no news of Rodrick returns). + Show Spoiler +I'll stop ranting for now, promise
They will probably come after him and then Bolton bastard will kill them in front of Winterfell.
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On May 16 2012 21:30 Iranon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 14:31 mmp wrote:
Why does Dagmar hold the nut shells and say 'I think I've found what we're looking for' ?
The audience knows that Rickon eats nuts, but how does Dagmar know that? I think the writers just ignored that, or assumed that people wouldn't notice. The only really plausible explanations are that maybe Theon knew from being around Rickon growing up, or maybe the hounds kept going for walnut shells along the way.
Because the camera isn't on them all the time, so they may have seen Rickon eat nuts at some point that was not filmed.
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On May 16 2012 19:56 Licmyobelisk wrote:
man, nobody has complained about the dragonglass being found? It's not even shown in TV yet and Jon is already captured.. might be possible that it's going to be tackled in Season 3 and 4.
It doesn't matter who finds it, just that Sam has it in time to kill the white walker.
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On May 15 2012 17:40 moopie wrote:
he's not supposed to be Hodor.
Couldn't stop laughing when I read HOOODOR!!!
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I love that they keep altering the source-material, because in later books the quality really drops and it would be too confusing and uninteresting staying true to the source material. However, the screen writers can't keep it coherent when altering the plot:
Firstly, when the wildling woman sleeps with Reek, she opt not to kill him and escape with the Stark sons and killing a guard. It makes you wonder why she just did not slit Reek's throat before escaping, if she still are going to save the Stark sons and kill more people on the way.
Secondly, this bothers me: Jaime killing his relative just to be able to get the guard in the cage. "You have to die." Jaime would not do that, and just hitting him unconscious would have served exactly the same purpose. Jaime is not cruel, he is smart. Just beating him down would have served the exact same purpose.
I doubt Martin supervised these changes. I love changes, but they must make sense.
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Jaime killing one of his kin brutally to attract the attention of 1 guard in order to make an escape attempt... To be fair its something you could imagine him doing, really (though killing kin is pretty taboo =/). They just presented it as if he thought about doing this for a long time, and not on the fly like his previous acts (killing the mad king, killing Ned's guards, ...)
Also the fact that only 1 person comes and watch when someone is getting butchered with a blunt object... T_T
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On May 17 2012 05:36 HowardRoark wrote:
I love that they keep altering the source-material, because in later books the quality really drops and it would be too confusing and uninteresting staying true to the source material. However, the screen writers can't keep it coherent when altering the plot:
Firstly, when the wildling woman sleeps with Reek, she opt not to kill him and escape with the Stark sons and killing a guard. It makes you wonder why she just did not slit Reek's throat before escaping, if she still are going to save the Stark sons and kill more people on the way.
Secondly, this bothers me: Jaime killing his relative just to be able to get the guard in the cage. "You have to die." Jaime would not do that, and just hitting him unconscious would have served exactly the same purpose. Jaime is not cruel, he is smart. Just beating him down would have served the exact same purpose.
I doubt Martin supervised these changes. I love changes, but they must make sense.
He is not Reek yet. You missed the story by 3 books. And this was discussed previously. She knows he is incompetent, they stand a bigger chance to get away with him in charge. Also if she kills him one of the real Ironman takes charge, orders all women raped, all men killed and they all leave Winterfell.
As for Jamie I agree completely. It was too much, especially since Cat is supposed to trust him enough to send him alone with Brianne to KL to trade for her girls.
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On May 17 2012 05:51 Syphonix wrote:
Also the fact that only 1 person comes and watch when someone is getting butchered with a blunt object... T_T
Happened all the time in other HBO show Oz :D (well there nobody came after people got butchered all the time)
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Do you think Bronn will save Tyrion instead of his squire?
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On May 17 2012 05:51 Syphonix wrote:
Jaime killing one of his kin brutally to attract the attention of 1 guard in order to make an escape attempt... To be fair its something you could imagine him doing, really (though killing kin is pretty taboo =/). They just presented it as if he thought about doing this for a long time, and not on the fly like his previous acts (killing the mad king, killing Ned's guards, ...)
Also the fact that only 1 person comes and watch when someone is getting butchered with a blunt object... T_T
I do not forsee him lasting much longer at his rate of stupidity. The inbreeding must have got to him.
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On May 17 2012 05:51 Syphonix wrote:
Jaime killing one of his kin brutally to attract the attention of 1 guard in order to make an escape attempt... To be fair its something you could imagine him doing, really (though killing kin is pretty taboo =/). They just presented it as if he thought about doing this for a long time, and not on the fly like his previous acts (killing the mad king, killing Ned's guards, ...)
Also the fact that only 1 person comes and watch when someone is getting butchered with a blunt object... T_T
Of course it was on the fly; Jaime didn't have anyone else in his pen up until that night, and had no reason to suspect that would ever change. That speech about "I've been thinking about this every day and I think I know a way" was just a ruse to get his poor distant cousin to come within arms' reach.
What struck me about that scene is that the jailer sees a twitching corpse, and instead of going up to the bars and yelling "hey, what the fuck is going on here" at Jaime, he just opens the door and waltzes right past Jaime over to the body. What? Why would anyone do that?
"Hmm, there's two people here chained to posts, and one of them has been mysteriously murdered in the last few minutes. It's probably safe to ignore the other one, he looks very sleepy. I'll go in and check on the dead one. They don't call me Torrhen Karsmart for nothing, you know."
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On May 15 2012 07:08 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 06:35 OrderlyChaos wrote:
I don't really think they're making Tywin out of character. In the same scene where he talks with Arya, he ordered the Mountain to go rampaging across the countryside. He's still ruthless, but I think there's simply a part of him that is amused by Arya. He's laughing and smiling. He's warm in front of her. That's not Tywin. Yes he wasn't a POV character but we've learned a lot about him from his children, Genna and other people. Jaime didn't even think it was right when he was posed with a smirk on his face at his funeral. Tywin is supposed to be very cold. Season 1 got him down to a tee. The writers of the show are just going out of their way to try to make every character more rounded (except Joffrey) but they aren't doing it right. Lets even forget for a second about the books as a reference. Tywin's changes aren't bad in that regard because his scenes with Arya are very good. TV Cersei on the other hand is a mess. One minute they play her as she is in the books, threatening Tyrion and yelling or taking joy in discussing killing Robb right in front of Sansa. The next she's best buddies with Sansa telling her its ok not to love Joffrey because he's evil and having a BFF moment with Tyrion about her incest with Jaime (which she never openly shared with anyone). Jaime also admitted to the incest in the show in front of Cat and Brienne (who's a complete stranger to him) which is very strange, because when confronted by Robb he doesn't give a direct answer. meh.
I don't think I remember either Cersei or Jaime openly admitting to their relationship to anyone, the most I can remember is some akward moments of silence etc. I'm really wondering where they are going with this.
And the Tywin thing is maybe to get another "omg they killed Ned" moment. They are doing some characterbuilding now so people start liking him.
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On May 17 2012 22:46 Flyingdutchman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 07:08 moopie wrote:On May 15 2012 06:35 OrderlyChaos wrote:
I don't really think they're making Tywin out of character. In the same scene where he talks with Arya, he ordered the Mountain to go rampaging across the countryside. He's still ruthless, but I think there's simply a part of him that is amused by Arya. He's laughing and smiling. He's warm in front of her. That's not Tywin. Yes he wasn't a POV character but we've learned a lot about him from his children, Genna and other people. Jaime didn't even think it was right when he was posed with a smirk on his face at his funeral. Tywin is supposed to be very cold. Season 1 got him down to a tee. The writers of the show are just going out of their way to try to make every character more rounded (except Joffrey) but they aren't doing it right. Lets even forget for a second about the books as a reference. Tywin's changes aren't bad in that regard because his scenes with Arya are very good. TV Cersei on the other hand is a mess. One minute they play her as she is in the books, threatening Tyrion and yelling or taking joy in discussing killing Robb right in front of Sansa. The next she's best buddies with Sansa telling her its ok not to love Joffrey because he's evil and having a BFF moment with Tyrion about her incest with Jaime (which she never openly shared with anyone). Jaime also admitted to the incest in the show in front of Cat and Brienne (who's a complete stranger to him) which is very strange, because when confronted by Robb he doesn't give a direct answer. meh. I don't think I remember either Cersei or Jaime openly admitting to their relationship to anyone, the most I can remember is some akward moments of silence etc. I'm really wondering where they are going with this. And the Tywin thing is maybe to get another "omg they killed Ned" moment. They are doing some characterbuilding now so people start liking him.
Jaime admitted it half a dozen times. Cersei, maybe not. (I just finished SoS, but I'm holding off on FFC otherwise I'll get ASOIAF blue balls)
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EPT
