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On February 26 2016 01:11 spudde123 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this Chinese new year. Is it really a thing that teams stop playing dota to do some celebrating when there is a multi million dollar tournament around the corner? I can understand people taking time off in past years when there was just TI, but one would think players would do things differently this time around with such a big event right after.
Well, it's the asian equivalent of the xmas/new year period, it's by far the biggest and most important holiday in China. When you add in the fact that a lot of these guys live far away from their family and have to spend time travelling away from their team house to go home, it's kind of reasonable to assume they wont be at 100%
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On February 26 2016 01:11 spudde123 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this Chinese new year. Is it really a thing that teams stop playing dota to do some celebrating when there is a multi million dollar tournament around the corner? I can understand people taking time off in past years when there was just TI, but one would think players would do things differently this time around with such a big event right after.
While it's a big deal, I don't believe an American team would ever be given a pass for playing badly after Thanksgiving or Christmas. I really think it's just pre-fabbed excuse.
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On February 26 2016 01:11 spudde123 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this Chinese new year. Is it really a thing that teams stop playing dota to do some celebrating when there is a multi million dollar tournament around the corner? I can understand people taking time off in past years when there was just TI, but one would think players would do things differently this time around with such a big event right after.
i believe they get like a whole week off work or soemthing like that for new years, that should tell you how big of a deal it is in china. can you imagine the western world taking a whole week off for new years?
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On February 26 2016 01:26 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:11 spudde123 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this Chinese new year. Is it really a thing that teams stop playing dota to do some celebrating when there is a multi million dollar tournament around the corner? I can understand people taking time off in past years when there was just TI, but one would think players would do things differently this time around with such a big event right after. i believe they get like a whole week off work or soemthing like that for new years, that should tell you how big of a deal it is in china. can you imagine the western world taking a whole week off for new years?
well christmas + new year is similar. nothing will ever get done in the period from 23rd to ~2nd
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On February 26 2016 01:22 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:11 Azarkon wrote:On February 26 2016 01:07 MaCRo.gg wrote:On February 26 2016 01:00 Azarkon wrote:On February 26 2016 00:54 MaCRo.gg wrote:
China is on home turf and they are due for a win and other than EG none of the other top tier teams in EU/NA have had consistent wins against top Chinese teams since TI5. People just underestimated the New years effect and homefield hype advantage. They are not "due" for a win. It doesn't work that way. Had that been the case we'd have seen them win their share of tournaments in the last eight months and yet they only won one and that was when other teams were just starting to step up their practice. And I don't know how you can say eight months of Western victories = none of the top Western teams have had "consistent" wins against top Chinese teams except for PPD's team. Only Korea has had that level of monopoly on a scene in a popular game and you can't tell me Korean teams win every single game they ever play against other regions in League of Legends, because they don't. Even at the height of season 3 and season 4, top Korean teams were dropping games to other regions and getting eliminated by them in groups, even. The fact that the West drops games to China does not make them any less of a favorite region in the last eight months. Since OG, Secret, and Alliance have followed their wins with dominant performances... smh Are you really trying to compare Korean stomps in LoL to recent western wins in Dota? LMFAO In the context of the last eight months? Sure, why not? Remember: no League of Legends worlds has had two Korean teams in the finals until season 5. During season 3, one of the top 3 Korean teams at the time went out in groups against European/Chinese teams, and the other was eliminated in a region kill. During season 4, one of the top 3 Korean teams went out in the first round of play offs against European/Chinese teams, and the other was eliminated in a region kill. That is pretty similar to how the last 12 tournaments until MDL went for the West. Top Western teams were beaten by Chinese teams, but a Western team always won in the end, and usually it was not close. The last major, for example, had three Western teams out of the top four. That's about as well as you can do in Dota given that there are only 2-3 top Western teams at any given time. If you selectively scale down the sample from 3+ years of stomping to a ~8 month streak sure. Why not... You can't really compare the skill difference between Koreans vs the World in LoL to the recent bout of good results of West over China, the gap and time elapsed to confirm dominance isn't there. Also I hope you realize that you are comparing half of a very small nation to an entire scene that stretches two continents.
Sure, you can't say that the West has been as strong in Dota 2, over the course of Dota 2, as Korea has been in League of Legends. That is obvious to all of us. But you also have to accept that the West has been *consistently* ahead of China in the last eight months, and therefore saying that China was the favorite for this tournament, is not logical. There's no rational cause for believing that unless you thought MDL was a valid way to evaluate the state of Dota going into Shanghai. That is the equivalent of using a sample size of one to argue a rule, which is especially stupid in Dota because we have PLENTY of results to go by.
You don't just ignore the last eight months, and look at one tournament, and decide "China is back." I said it then and I'm saying it again now.
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Hey TL staff pretty sure you'd get a boost in TL+ subscriptions if you include an "Ignore User" feature with some preloaded members.
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On February 26 2016 01:29 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:26 zev318 wrote:On February 26 2016 01:11 spudde123 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this Chinese new year. Is it really a thing that teams stop playing dota to do some celebrating when there is a multi million dollar tournament around the corner? I can understand people taking time off in past years when there was just TI, but one would think players would do things differently this time around with such a big event right after. i believe they get like a whole week off work or soemthing like that for new years, that should tell you how big of a deal it is in china. can you imagine the western world taking a whole week off for new years? well christmas + new year is similar. nothing will ever get done in the period from 23rd to ~2nd
Certain sports leagues still run right through that time though. They won't have games on Christmas eve or day typically but otherwise yes. I would assume pro players would fit their holidays according to their tournament schedule, not whether there happens to be some random date on the calendar. But I really don't know about the cultural significance of it in China. For me it just feels weird, I don't put much value on typical holidays.
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On February 26 2016 01:23 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:11 spudde123 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this Chinese new year. Is it really a thing that teams stop playing dota to do some celebrating when there is a multi million dollar tournament around the corner? I can understand people taking time off in past years when there was just TI, but one would think players would do things differently this time around with such a big event right after. While it's a big deal, I don't believe an American team would ever be given a pass for playing badly after Thanksgiving or Christmas. I really think it's just pre-fabbed excuse.
I think you over rate the management of American teams. Only PPD's team would hold themselves above that standard.
That said, I think we already discovered a while ago, when Newbee spent six months playing games other than Dota after they won the international, that Chinese teams are held to even lower standards.
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On February 26 2016 01:30 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:22 MaCRo.gg wrote:On February 26 2016 01:11 Azarkon wrote:On February 26 2016 01:07 MaCRo.gg wrote:On February 26 2016 01:00 Azarkon wrote:On February 26 2016 00:54 MaCRo.gg wrote:
China is on home turf and they are due for a win and other than EG none of the other top tier teams in EU/NA have had consistent wins against top Chinese teams since TI5. People just underestimated the New years effect and homefield hype advantage. They are not "due" for a win. It doesn't work that way. Had that been the case we'd have seen them win their share of tournaments in the last eight months and yet they only won one and that was when other teams were just starting to step up their practice. And I don't know how you can say eight months of Western victories = none of the top Western teams have had "consistent" wins against top Chinese teams except for PPD's team. Only Korea has had that level of monopoly on a scene in a popular game and you can't tell me Korean teams win every single game they ever play against other regions in League of Legends, because they don't. Even at the height of season 3 and season 4, top Korean teams were dropping games to other regions and getting eliminated by them in groups, even. The fact that the West drops games to China does not make them any less of a favorite region in the last eight months. Since OG, Secret, and Alliance have followed their wins with dominant performances... smh Are you really trying to compare Korean stomps in LoL to recent western wins in Dota? LMFAO In the context of the last eight months? Sure, why not? Remember: no League of Legends worlds has had two Korean teams in the finals until season 5. During season 3, one of the top 3 Korean teams at the time went out in groups against European/Chinese teams, and the other was eliminated in a region kill. During season 4, one of the top 3 Korean teams went out in the first round of play offs against European/Chinese teams, and the other was eliminated in a region kill. That is pretty similar to how the last 12 tournaments until MDL went for the West. Top Western teams were beaten by Chinese teams, but a Western team always won in the end, and usually it was not close. The last major, for example, had three Western teams out of the top four. That's about as well as you can do in Dota given that there are only 2-3 top Western teams at any given time. If you selectively scale down the sample from 3+ years of stomping to a ~8 month streak sure. Why not... You can't really compare the skill difference between Koreans vs the World in LoL to the recent bout of good results of West over China, the gap and time elapsed to confirm dominance isn't there. Also I hope you realize that you are comparing half of a very small nation to an entire scene that stretches two continents. Sure, you can't say that the West has been as strong in Dota 2, over the course of Dota 2, as Korea has been in League of Legends. That is obvious to all of us. But you also have to accept that the West has been *consistently* ahead of China in the last eight months, and therefore saying that China was the favorite for this tournament, is not logical. There's no rational cause for believing that unless you thought MDL was a valid way to evaluate the state of Dota going into Shanghai. That is the equivalent of using a sample size of one to argue a rule, which is especially stupid in Dota because we have PLENTY of results to go by. You don't just ignore the last eight months, and look at one tournament, and decide "China is back." I said it then and I'm saying it again now.
China had factors going for them and ~8 months of results is hardly a sample size that seems irreversible. Not unfathomable to believe China is going to make a comeback. While the West has been consistently better than Chinese teams, no ONE team other than EG has consistently been putting up better results than Chinese teams on average over that time. Which other team are you CONFIDENT in winning vs Chinese teams or can say that you clearly favor a western team over a chinese team?
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Chinese win 1 Tourny - Talk all the trash in the world
2 of their top teams sent to the lower bracket on the first day? Must be Chinese New Year
Funny stuff 
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On February 26 2016 01:29 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:26 zev318 wrote:On February 26 2016 01:11 spudde123 wrote:
I'm a bit confused about this Chinese new year. Is it really a thing that teams stop playing dota to do some celebrating when there is a multi million dollar tournament around the corner? I can understand people taking time off in past years when there was just TI, but one would think players would do things differently this time around with such a big event right after. i believe they get like a whole week off work or soemthing like that for new years, that should tell you how big of a deal it is in china. can you imagine the western world taking a whole week off for new years? well christmas + new year is similar. nothing will ever get done in the period from 23rd to ~2nd
i guess depends on what industry u work in. even banks dont take the entire week off tho. most places are like 24th u close early, 25th off, 26th open a little bit/maybe off, 27th-30th regular hours.
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On February 26 2016 01:37 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:30 Azarkon wrote:On February 26 2016 01:22 MaCRo.gg wrote:On February 26 2016 01:11 Azarkon wrote:On February 26 2016 01:07 MaCRo.gg wrote:On February 26 2016 01:00 Azarkon wrote:On February 26 2016 00:54 MaCRo.gg wrote:
China is on home turf and they are due for a win and other than EG none of the other top tier teams in EU/NA have had consistent wins against top Chinese teams since TI5. People just underestimated the New years effect and homefield hype advantage. They are not "due" for a win. It doesn't work that way. Had that been the case we'd have seen them win their share of tournaments in the last eight months and yet they only won one and that was when other teams were just starting to step up their practice. And I don't know how you can say eight months of Western victories = none of the top Western teams have had "consistent" wins against top Chinese teams except for PPD's team. Only Korea has had that level of monopoly on a scene in a popular game and you can't tell me Korean teams win every single game they ever play against other regions in League of Legends, because they don't. Even at the height of season 3 and season 4, top Korean teams were dropping games to other regions and getting eliminated by them in groups, even. The fact that the West drops games to China does not make them any less of a favorite region in the last eight months. Since OG, Secret, and Alliance have followed their wins with dominant performances... smh Are you really trying to compare Korean stomps in LoL to recent western wins in Dota? LMFAO In the context of the last eight months? Sure, why not? Remember: no League of Legends worlds has had two Korean teams in the finals until season 5. During season 3, one of the top 3 Korean teams at the time went out in groups against European/Chinese teams, and the other was eliminated in a region kill. During season 4, one of the top 3 Korean teams went out in the first round of play offs against European/Chinese teams, and the other was eliminated in a region kill. That is pretty similar to how the last 12 tournaments until MDL went for the West. Top Western teams were beaten by Chinese teams, but a Western team always won in the end, and usually it was not close. The last major, for example, had three Western teams out of the top four. That's about as well as you can do in Dota given that there are only 2-3 top Western teams at any given time. If you selectively scale down the sample from 3+ years of stomping to a ~8 month streak sure. Why not... You can't really compare the skill difference between Koreans vs the World in LoL to the recent bout of good results of West over China, the gap and time elapsed to confirm dominance isn't there. Also I hope you realize that you are comparing half of a very small nation to an entire scene that stretches two continents. Sure, you can't say that the West has been as strong in Dota 2, over the course of Dota 2, as Korea has been in League of Legends. That is obvious to all of us. But you also have to accept that the West has been *consistently* ahead of China in the last eight months, and therefore saying that China was the favorite for this tournament, is not logical. There's no rational cause for believing that unless you thought MDL was a valid way to evaluate the state of Dota going into Shanghai. That is the equivalent of using a sample size of one to argue a rule, which is especially stupid in Dota because we have PLENTY of results to go by. You don't just ignore the last eight months, and look at one tournament, and decide "China is back." I said it then and I'm saying it again now. China had factors going for them and ~8 months of results is hardly a sample size that seems irreversible. Not unfathomable to believe China is going to make a comeback. While the West has been consistently better than Chinese teams, no ONE team other than EG has consistently been putting up better results than Chinese teams on average over that time. Which other team are you CONFIDENT in winning vs Chinese teams or can say that you clearly favor a western team over a chinese team?
That's the way the West works - every tournament, there's 1-2 teams that step up. You don't necessarily know who they're going to be, but you can rest in the belief that they will step up. This is because individual skill, at this level of Dota, is actually pretty close across top teams, and what matters is ultimately preparation, understanding, and the level of practice going in. Western teams that fail to practice, and we've seen plenty of those, including even the very top Western teams at times, will fail. Western teams that do practice, and which have the right heroes/understanding of the game going in, succeed.
It's not the same as Korea where top teams are always practicing against each other and always trying to improve. In that sort of situation, you have a *consistent* skill list for teams and your argument about teams being able to put up *consistent* results apply. The West is different. There's a lot of top teams in the West, but only a few of them, at any given moment, has the right heroes/understanding/practice.
Both regions are also different from China, in this respect, because in China, when teams don't practice, they all don't practice, which is why iceiceice said, for example, that it was very hard for them to get practice going into the last major because none of the Chinese teams were practicing. I imagine it's the exact same situation this time around - because a large % of the Chinese teams stopped practicing due to new years, those that did want to practice, had no way to do so.
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On February 26 2016 00:45 Yurie wrote:
Based on recent performance it was logical to favour EHOME.\
It might be a very subtle error, but it's not so clear that it was logical to base your prediction on recent performance.
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On February 26 2016 01:41 Steelavocado wrote:Chinese win 1 Tourny - Talk all the trash in the world 2 of their top teams sent to the lower bracket on the first day? Must be Chinese New Year Funny stuff
1 USA(NA) team finally playing consistently well for 8 month since era of TI1 - Talk all the trash in the world
Literally non-existent scene until SADBOYS showed up, even then it's just 1 good team...Enjoy EG's run until it lasts NA fanbois...about time its your turn
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On February 26 2016 02:33 Eetee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:41 Steelavocado wrote:Chinese win 1 Tourny - Talk all the trash in the world 2 of their top teams sent to the lower bracket on the first day? Must be Chinese New Year Funny stuff 1 USA(NA) team finally playing consistently well for 8 month since era of TI1 - Talk all the trash in the world Literally non-existent scene until SADBOYS showed up, even then it's just 1 good team...Enjoy EG's run until it lasts NA fanbois...about time its your turn
Funny stuff
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On February 26 2016 02:34 Eetee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 02:33 Eetee wrote:On February 26 2016 01:41 Steelavocado wrote:Chinese win 1 Tourny - Talk all the trash in the world 2 of their top teams sent to the lower bracket on the first day? Must be Chinese New Year Funny stuff 1 USA(NA) team finally playing consistently well for 8 month since era of TI1 - Talk all the trash in the world Literally non-existent scene until SADBOYS showed up, even then it's just 1 good team...Enjoy EG's run until it lasts NA fanbois...about time its your turn Funny stuff
Did you just quote your own post and call it "Funny Stuff"?
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On February 26 2016 02:33 Eetee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 01:41 Steelavocado wrote:Chinese win 1 Tourny - Talk all the trash in the world 2 of their top teams sent to the lower bracket on the first day? Must be Chinese New Year Funny stuff 1 USA(NA) team finally playing consistently well for 8 month since era of TI1 - Talk all the trash in the world Literally non-existent scene until SADBOYS showed up, even then it's just 1 good team...Enjoy EG's run until it lasts NA fanbois...about time its your turn
EG has been consistently good for 2 years now.
And if the constant spamming of "USA" was annoying and unwarranted when EG started performing well, I think the Chinese pride boner when Ehome finally managed to win something after 8 month was even worse.
And did you actually quote yourself?
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On February 26 2016 02:42 Sasquatch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2016 02:34 Eetee wrote:On February 26 2016 02:33 Eetee wrote:On February 26 2016 01:41 Steelavocado wrote:Chinese win 1 Tourny - Talk all the trash in the world 2 of their top teams sent to the lower bracket on the first day? Must be Chinese New Year Funny stuff 1 USA(NA) team finally playing consistently well for 8 month since era of TI1 - Talk all the trash in the world Literally non-existent scene until SADBOYS showed up, even then it's just 1 good team...Enjoy EG's run until it lasts NA fanbois...about time its your turn Funny stuff Did you just quote your own post and call it "Funny Stuff"?
That just happened.. lol
Funny stuff indeed.
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probably meant to edit his own message
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If KR is one day great at dota2, let's all remember that technically they're NA since their scene was grown from NA heritage
justifications for USA chants are there
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EPT
