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A few USA chants are fine but please don't do it too much.
Stop the stupid USA arguments, thanks.
On another note, CDEC flairs are now live. Sorry about the delay on that. |
On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:57 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:56 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
Exactly, 2, plus one NADota team knocked out another Chinese one (it was Bo1 but still), plus Dignitas did knock out Rattlesnake in first loser's round, huh. That's much better of West vs China record than this TI, huh.
Actually, fuck it, i am bored during the break:
West vs China at TI3: 5-2 in favor of West
West vs China at TI5: 3-7 in favor of China. The difference of one team's results and you're not even looking the group games. Who the fuck cares. The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West win all the tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What?
How about "EG is a good team and so are CDEC, LGD and VG"?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Can we atop arguing with crazy people ? Gl to both teams, im going to sleep
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On August 09 2015 06:10 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:57 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
The difference of one team's results and you're not even looking the group games. Who the fuck cares. The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West has a ridiculous win rate in tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? If there is 1 team in west that consistently wins against Chinese and rest of teams consistently lose to Chinese, that is a sign of 1 top team in West > China > rest of West. You definitely had a point at MDL, when it indeed a western top 3. But as you see, this time it's EG+3 chinese teams in top 4 and that's definitely not West>China. Stop making basic mistakes bruh.
So by that, 2013 was not even West > China because there were only two Western teams that were above China.
Sorry, but I don't go by this.
Just because Secret fails in one tournament the whole year, does not make China = West.
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On August 09 2015 06:10 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:09 hfglgg wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 06:02 hfglgg wrote:On August 09 2015 05:59 pellejohnson wrote:On August 09 2015 05:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 05:54 Sabu113 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Double elimination exists because there is no consistency in team seeding and prize pool.
If DotA had a proper team ranking system and a prize pool spread across every tournament in the year, the single elim would be fine. It's a fucking horrible idea when seeding is entirely dependent on luck and tournaments can eclipse the total sum of everything else in a year.
Take this tournament for example. Top 6 teams, 5 were in Group B. I'm sorry gimping the grand finals is stupid. You get 2 lives to rule out luck in surviving the bracket. If you want 3 mil. Earn it. Plenty of SC tournaments were shit with the 1 game advantage. It's a huge up in terms of strategic flexibility. All the tournament is is qualification for that one match. Don't throw a fit just because EG might win lol You realise you are gimping the grand finals by not having a winners advantage right? If EG win its not a real victory and it kills any real sense of victory. If EG were to have to come from 1 game behind or win 2 Bo5 series then that would be hype as fuck and it would mean they truely are the TI champions. If they win now its like "well EG won buuuuuuuuut..." Basically if EG wins it'll just be anticlimactic Exactly! Even if EG would win they would still not be the "real" winners. I seriously doubt that anyone who has ever played any game competitively defends the "no WB advantage". Anyone who has been in the same situation knows how unfair it is not getting the second life that the other teams had for some odd reason people are fine with group stages being a seperate part of a tournament but never with the final being a seperate part of the tournament. its 2-2 in maps between cdec and eg, it can not be more even and every form of advantage now would just be unfair! ha here you got it, its unfair because if there would be an advantage a team could win while being behind in maps. how are you the better team when you have lost most of your games? the mental gymnastics some people do is really astonishing. Issue is that if EG vs CDEC weren't in the same group then this mental juggling would have never happened so the winner advantage should have been in place regardless. Both CDEC and EG were in the top 4 of their group thats the only thing that matters Top 4 in their groups is how TI5 has the rules written and that's all that's matters. No winner's bracket advantage is because TI5 is stupid and the rules suck. Nice logic. In the group stages it was about placing in top 4 to get your placement. It was a qualifier. Generally qualifiers don't effect main events outside of placements and thus a double elimination should be fair and be set up properly even if it means 5 more hours of Dota. now you are just trying to make up your own rules. ok i can do that too, here is mine: everything is just qualifier for the finals, you can lose once and still advance there. the only thing that matters is that you reach the finals. I'm reading the rules to the tournament as i'm arguing this I literally have them on the screen. No where does it say "oh yeah if you bump into each other in group stages you don't get a winner's advantage"
And nowhere does it says you have a winner's advantage.
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On August 09 2015 06:06 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:02 lolnoty wrote:On August 09 2015 06:00 pellejohnson wrote:On August 09 2015 05:59 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 05:59 pellejohnson wrote:On August 09 2015 05:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 05:54 Sabu113 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 05:46 Shergal wrote:
WEC actually had double elimination grand finals, with two sets of BO3 played and the winner bracket team having to only win one (or was it two sets of BO5? Doesn't matter either way).
Double elimination tournaments are inherently shitty though. I never understood gaming's fetish for them. Double elimination exists because there is no consistency in team seeding and prize pool. If DotA had a proper team ranking system and a prize pool spread across every tournament in the year, the single elim would be fine. It's a fucking horrible idea when seeding is entirely dependent on luck and tournaments can eclipse the total sum of everything else in a year. Take this tournament for example. Top 6 teams, 5 were in Group B. I'm sorry gimping the grand finals is stupid. You get 2 lives to rule out luck in surviving the bracket. If you want 3 mil. Earn it. Plenty of SC tournaments were shit with the 1 game advantage. It's a huge up in terms of strategic flexibility. All the tournament is is qualification for that one match. Don't throw a fit just because EG might win lol You realise you are gimping the grand finals by not having a winners advantage right? If EG win its not a real victory and it kills any real sense of victory. If EG were to have to come from 1 game behind or win 2 Bo5 series then that would be hype as fuck and it would mean they truely are the TI champions. If they win now its like "well EG won buuuuuuuuut..." Basically if EG wins it'll just be anticlimactic Exactly! Even if EG would win they would still not be the "real" winners. I seriously doubt that anyone who has ever played any game competitively defends the "no WB advantage". Anyone who has been in the same situation knows how unfair it is not getting the second life that the other teams had EG and CDEC are tied 2-2 in wins. Who deserves the advantage? Are you trolling or just stupid? Do you really want to bring group stage results into the brackets? yes, because if those group stage results didn't occur CDEC wouldn't have known that techies will stomp them and EG would have 2-0'd in the bracket instead. Not remotely true, ppd had to show his hand vs ehome, both teams already knew about techies.
You think a team like CDEC would first ban a hero because they saw an other team lose against it once?
ppd also drafted an Universe Ench in the group and won. It's obviously worthy of a ban.
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On August 09 2015 06:09 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:08 Grettin wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 zeo wrote:
So the grand finals start in 20min? An hour it looks like... Especially if there will be some performances before Sigh, don't think I'll be able to watch more than 2 games then 
I'd go to bed and watch the VoDs or watch the whole deal. I feel like after 2 games, you'll just be pissed that you have to go.
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I'm the needle in that picture.
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On August 09 2015 06:11 opterown wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/staff/opterown/ti5groupphoto1.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/staff/opterown/ti5groupphoto2.jpg)
Ur all nerds.
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On August 09 2015 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:57 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
The difference of one team's results and you're not even looking the group games. Who the fuck cares. The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West win all the tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? How about "EG is a good team and so are CDEC, LGD and VG"?
That would tear his ass too much to admit it
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On August 09 2015 06:11 opterown wrote:
Who is who? We need mouseover name tags!
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 09 2015 06:12 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:10 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 06:09 hfglgg wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 06:02 hfglgg wrote:On August 09 2015 05:59 pellejohnson wrote:On August 09 2015 05:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 05:54 Sabu113 wrote:
[quote]
I'm sorry gimping the grand finals is stupid. You get 2 lives to rule out luck in surviving the bracket. If you want 3 mil. Earn it. Plenty of SC tournaments were shit with the 1 game advantage. It's a huge up in terms of strategic flexibility. All the tournament is is qualification for that one match.
Don't throw a fit just because EG might win lol You realise you are gimping the grand finals by not having a winners advantage right? If EG win its not a real victory and it kills any real sense of victory. If EG were to have to come from 1 game behind or win 2 Bo5 series then that would be hype as fuck and it would mean they truely are the TI champions. If they win now its like "well EG won buuuuuuuuut..." Basically if EG wins it'll just be anticlimactic Exactly! Even if EG would win they would still not be the "real" winners. I seriously doubt that anyone who has ever played any game competitively defends the "no WB advantage". Anyone who has been in the same situation knows how unfair it is not getting the second life that the other teams had for some odd reason people are fine with group stages being a seperate part of a tournament but never with the final being a seperate part of the tournament. its 2-2 in maps between cdec and eg, it can not be more even and every form of advantage now would just be unfair! ha here you got it, its unfair because if there would be an advantage a team could win while being behind in maps. how are you the better team when you have lost most of your games? the mental gymnastics some people do is really astonishing. Issue is that if EG vs CDEC weren't in the same group then this mental juggling would have never happened so the winner advantage should have been in place regardless. Both CDEC and EG were in the top 4 of their group thats the only thing that matters Top 4 in their groups is how TI5 has the rules written and that's all that's matters. No winner's bracket advantage is because TI5 is stupid and the rules suck. Nice logic. In the group stages it was about placing in top 4 to get your placement. It was a qualifier. Generally qualifiers don't effect main events outside of placements and thus a double elimination should be fair and be set up properly even if it means 5 more hours of Dota. now you are just trying to make up your own rules. ok i can do that too, here is mine: everything is just qualifier for the finals, you can lose once and still advance there. the only thing that matters is that you reach the finals. I'm reading the rules to the tournament as i'm arguing this I literally have them on the screen. No where does it say "oh yeah if you bump into each other in group stages you don't get a winner's advantage" And nowhere does it says you have a winner's advantage.
Exactly which is the issue. You can't have 1 phase of the tournament effecting the next when that phase already had its intended impact on how the tournament played out (AKA the placement of the main event)
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On August 09 2015 06:11 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:10 CherryNubCakes wrote:On August 09 2015 06:05 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 TheYango wrote:
TI2 is the only time the WB finalist lost in the Grand Finals, and the one time they did, it was 3-1 anyway. For all the hubbub people make about no WB advantage, it hasn't really made a difference. Also, was not it working out in a way that TI2 schedule had LGD play 2 series in a row, Navi having a break between LB and GF and iG having like 1 game that day? Or was iG vs DK first match of final TI2 day? iG played DK, LGD, and Na'Vi all in one day. I heard that YYF was vomiting in between matches. Well, thankfully for them Navi went full retard in finals.
Na'Vi didn't go full retard, they lost because their selection of pocket Naga counters got figured out and they had absolutely nothing else left in the tank vs iG.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 09 2015 06:12 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West has a ridiculous win rate in tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? If there is 1 team in west that consistently wins against Chinese and rest of teams consistently lose to Chinese, that is a sign of 1 top team in West > China > rest of West. You definitely had a point at MDL, when it indeed a western top 3. But as you see, this time it's EG+3 chinese teams in top 4 and that's definitely not West>China. Stop making basic mistakes bruh. So by that, 2013 was not even West > China because there were only two teams that were above China. Sorry, but I don't go by this.
Well, apparently that's how it is, bruh, no doubt you don't by that because that goes against your own concept. Also, TI3 was chinese failure because they managed to lose to SEA team of all things.
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vp beating secret might've been the biggest upset this year.
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WB automatically winning the coinflip is actually a pretty good idea.
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Nice photo! So jealous of you all.
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On August 09 2015 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:57 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
The difference of one team's results and you're not even looking the group games. Who the fuck cares. The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West win all the tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? How about "EG is a good team and so are CDEC, LGD and VG"?
Because hearing USA USA USA again in real life is really really annoying?
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On August 09 2015 06:08 Lackbleeder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:07 TheYango wrote:
I don't even know wtf you guys are all arguing about anymore. This thread is a salt factory
Sportsmanship wasn't learned by these guys.
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On August 09 2015 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:57 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
The difference of one team's results and you're not even looking the group games. Who the fuck cares. The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West win all the tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? How about "EG is a good team and so are CDEC, LGD and VG"?
They are, and so are Secret, Virtus Pro, etc.
But at the end of the day, one group of these win tournaments, another don't.
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EPT
