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A few USA chants are fine but please don't do it too much.
Stop the stupid USA arguments, thanks.
On another note, CDEC flairs are now live. Sorry about the delay on that. |
On August 09 2015 06:13 Tanzklaue wrote:
vp beating secret might've been the biggest upset this year.
Toss up between that and EHOME beating Secret.
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On August 09 2015 06:11 opterown wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/staff/opterown/ti5groupphoto1.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.liquiddota.com/staff/opterown/ti5groupphoto2.jpg)
Nice pic!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 09 2015 06:13 CherryNubCakes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:11 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:10 CherryNubCakes wrote:On August 09 2015 06:05 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 TheYango wrote:
TI2 is the only time the WB finalist lost in the Grand Finals, and the one time they did, it was 3-1 anyway. For all the hubbub people make about no WB advantage, it hasn't really made a difference. Also, was not it working out in a way that TI2 schedule had LGD play 2 series in a row, Navi having a break between LB and GF and iG having like 1 game that day? Or was iG vs DK first match of final TI2 day? iG played DK, LGD, and Na'Vi all in one day. I heard that YYF was vomiting in between matches. Well, thankfully for them Navi went full retard in finals. Na'Vi didn't go full retard, they lost because their selection of pocket Naga counters got figured out and they had absolutely nothing else left in the tank vs iG.
Navi did go full retard that series actually, if you re-watch it now. Hell, Navi were the ones picking Naga in 3/4 games as well (that was almost hilarious seeing Naga being first ban whole tournament getting last picked by Navi in game 1).
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On August 09 2015 06:10 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:09 hfglgg wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 06:02 hfglgg wrote:On August 09 2015 05:59 pellejohnson wrote:On August 09 2015 05:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 05:54 Sabu113 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Double elimination exists because there is no consistency in team seeding and prize pool.
If DotA had a proper team ranking system and a prize pool spread across every tournament in the year, the single elim would be fine. It's a fucking horrible idea when seeding is entirely dependent on luck and tournaments can eclipse the total sum of everything else in a year.
Take this tournament for example. Top 6 teams, 5 were in Group B. I'm sorry gimping the grand finals is stupid. You get 2 lives to rule out luck in surviving the bracket. If you want 3 mil. Earn it. Plenty of SC tournaments were shit with the 1 game advantage. It's a huge up in terms of strategic flexibility. All the tournament is is qualification for that one match. Don't throw a fit just because EG might win lol You realise you are gimping the grand finals by not having a winners advantage right? If EG win its not a real victory and it kills any real sense of victory. If EG were to have to come from 1 game behind or win 2 Bo5 series then that would be hype as fuck and it would mean they truely are the TI champions. If they win now its like "well EG won buuuuuuuuut..." Basically if EG wins it'll just be anticlimactic Exactly! Even if EG would win they would still not be the "real" winners. I seriously doubt that anyone who has ever played any game competitively defends the "no WB advantage". Anyone who has been in the same situation knows how unfair it is not getting the second life that the other teams had for some odd reason people are fine with group stages being a seperate part of a tournament but never with the final being a seperate part of the tournament. its 2-2 in maps between cdec and eg, it can not be more even and every form of advantage now would just be unfair! ha here you got it, its unfair because if there would be an advantage a team could win while being behind in maps. how are you the better team when you have lost most of your games? the mental gymnastics some people do is really astonishing. Issue is that if EG vs CDEC weren't in the same group then this mental juggling would have never happened so the winner advantage should have been in place regardless. Both CDEC and EG were in the top 4 of their group thats the only thing that matters Top 4 in their groups is how TI5 has the rules written and that's all that's matters. No winner's bracket advantage is because TI5 is stupid and the rules suck. Nice logic. In the group stages it was about placing in top 4 to get your placement. It was a qualifier. Generally qualifiers don't effect main events outside of placements and thus a double elimination should be fair and be set up properly even if it means 5 more hours of Dota. now you are just trying to make up your own rules. ok i can do that too, here is mine: everything is just qualifier for the finals, you can lose once and still advance there. the only thing that matters is that you reach the finals. I'm reading the rules to the tournament as i'm arguing this I literally have them on the screen. No where does it say "oh yeah if you bump into each other in group stages you don't get a winner's advantage" Basically its just gonna be really lame if EG win and at the end of the day gimping the grand finals would have at least made an EG win seem fair
Rules don't work that way man. Absence of a rule doesn't make the opposite true.
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On August 09 2015 06:12 Elurie wrote:Who is who? We need mouseover name tags!
only 3 has no glasses
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Hoping that this series goes to game 5, should be a lot of fun to see how PPD tries to counter CDEC's playstyle.
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On August 09 2015 06:12 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West has a ridiculous win rate in tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? If there is 1 team in west that consistently wins against Chinese and rest of teams consistently lose to Chinese, that is a sign of 1 top team in West > China > rest of West. You definitely had a point at MDL, when it indeed a western top 3. But as you see, this time it's EG+3 chinese teams in top 4 and that's definitely not West>China. Stop making basic mistakes bruh. So by that, 2013 was not even West > China because there were only two Western teams that were above China. Sorry, but I don't go by this. Just because Secret fails in one tournament the whole year, does not make China = West.
Azarkon, I'm treating you as a friend here.
But why don't you say both the finalist did well.
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On August 09 2015 05:56 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 05:54 Sabu113 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 05:46 Shergal wrote:
WEC actually had double elimination grand finals, with two sets of BO3 played and the winner bracket team having to only win one (or was it two sets of BO5? Doesn't matter either way).
Double elimination tournaments are inherently shitty though. I never understood gaming's fetish for them. Double elimination exists because there is no consistency in team seeding and prize pool. If DotA had a proper team ranking system and a prize pool spread across every tournament in the year, the single elim would be fine. It's a fucking horrible idea when seeding is entirely dependent on luck and tournaments can eclipse the total sum of everything else in a year. Take this tournament for example. Top 6 teams, 5 were in Group B. I'm sorry gimping the grand finals is stupid. You get 2 lives to rule out luck in surviving the bracket. If you want 3 mil. Earn it. Plenty of SC tournaments were shit with the 1 game advantage. It's a huge up in terms of strategic flexibility. All the tournament is is qualification for that one match. Don't throw a fit just because EG might win lol You realise you are gimping the grand finals by not having a winners advantage right? If EG win its not a real victory and it kills any real sense of victory. If EG were to have to come from 1 game behind or win 2 Bo5 series then that would be hype as fuck and it would mean they truely are the TI champions. If they win now its like "well EG won buuuuuuuuut..." Basically if EG wins it'll just be anticlimactic
I thought winners advantage was simply not having to play extra matches to get to the finals?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 09 2015 06:15 Systematik wrote:
Hoping that this series goes to game 5, should be a lot of fun to see how PPD tries to counter CDEC's playstyle.
Well, if one reddit draft-genius is to believed, we will likely see Abbadon and Ember.
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Techies first ban every game, calling it now.
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On August 09 2015 06:14 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West win all the tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? How about "EG is a good team and so are CDEC, LGD and VG"? They are, and so are Secret, Virtus Pro, etc. But at the end of the day, one group of these win tournaments, another don't.
It's not a goddamn "group" of these winning a tournament, it's ONE. Lol.
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On August 09 2015 06:14 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:11 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 05:58 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
The difference of which team's results? Also, obviously i am not giving a fuck about group games because remember where top 2 of group A finished? Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West win all the tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? How about "EG is a good team and so are CDEC, LGD and VG"? They are, and so are Secret, Virtus Pro, etc. But at the end of the day, one group of these win tournaments, another don't.
EG, LGD, Secret and VG...?
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On August 09 2015 06:11 Logo wrote:
I don't see why everyone wants to see a finals where one team is heavily favored to win by having an advantage.
this is actually why i hate any form of WB advantage in the finals.
if you play two sets, the first set loses a lot of its meaning when the team from the lower bracket is ahead. the games become less interesting when they dont change anything and just give us more meaningless games.
if you give a one map advantage and the team from the upper bracket wins the first game, game 2 and 3 lose all meaning if the team from the lower bracket is ahead or wins.
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On August 09 2015 06:15 Daralii wrote:
Techies first ban every game, calling it now.
Doing us all a service.
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On August 09 2015 06:15 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 05:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 09 2015 05:54 Sabu113 wrote:On August 09 2015 05:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2015 05:46 Shergal wrote:
WEC actually had double elimination grand finals, with two sets of BO3 played and the winner bracket team having to only win one (or was it two sets of BO5? Doesn't matter either way).
Double elimination tournaments are inherently shitty though. I never understood gaming's fetish for them. Double elimination exists because there is no consistency in team seeding and prize pool. If DotA had a proper team ranking system and a prize pool spread across every tournament in the year, the single elim would be fine. It's a fucking horrible idea when seeding is entirely dependent on luck and tournaments can eclipse the total sum of everything else in a year. Take this tournament for example. Top 6 teams, 5 were in Group B. I'm sorry gimping the grand finals is stupid. You get 2 lives to rule out luck in surviving the bracket. If you want 3 mil. Earn it. Plenty of SC tournaments were shit with the 1 game advantage. It's a huge up in terms of strategic flexibility. All the tournament is is qualification for that one match. Don't throw a fit just because EG might win lol You realise you are gimping the grand finals by not having a winners advantage right? If EG win its not a real victory and it kills any real sense of victory. If EG were to have to come from 1 game behind or win 2 Bo5 series then that would be hype as fuck and it would mean they truely are the TI champions. If they win now its like "well EG won buuuuuuuuut..." Basically if EG wins it'll just be anticlimactic I thought winners advantage was simply not having to play extra matches to get to the finals?
I thought the winner's advantage was lots and lots and lots of money for every won match (plus huge jumps in placement).
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 09 2015 06:15 Daralii wrote:
Techies first ban every game, calling it now.
Easiest call of your life.
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Are they seriously gonna delay this shit for 45 minutes?
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On August 09 2015 06:15 shad2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2015 06:12 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:08 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:06 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 Azarkon wrote:On August 09 2015 06:03 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 09 2015 06:01 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
Natus Vincere in 2013. Had they not made it, it'd have been one Western team against three Chinese/Eastern teams, same as 2015. There is big difference between Chinese and Eastern team, bro. Which is fine but for the fact you're not even looking at MVP. Yes, i absolutely ignored SEA vs China in my stats, because that's out of point. Also, where is your MVP top 3 or something? The lack of another Eastern country in the last two years that is able to win the best of the West and China does not = we ignore the fact that there were only two Western teams in the last five teams of 2013, too. So, you have the guts to claim that West>East despite it being top West teams ~ China > rest of West? Heh. How is West not > China when the West has a ridiculous win rate in tournaments? I don't understand how you want to play this. Just because Secret failed this year, West < China? Even when China loses yet another tournament? What? If there is 1 team in west that consistently wins against Chinese and rest of teams consistently lose to Chinese, that is a sign of 1 top team in West > China > rest of West. You definitely had a point at MDL, when it indeed a western top 3. But as you see, this time it's EG+3 chinese teams in top 4 and that's definitely not West>China. Stop making basic mistakes bruh. So by that, 2013 was not even West > China because there were only two Western teams that were above China. Sorry, but I don't go by this. Just because Secret fails in one tournament the whole year, does not make China = West. Azarkon, I'm treating you as a friend here. But why don't you say both the finalist did well.
Because there is always a difference, in the end, between the one who wins, and the one who finishes second. C9 fans understand this well. No one ever thought C9 was equal to the best team in the world.
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what a tournament it was seeing those recaps.
please let the finals be as good. back and forth fights, comebacks, and a cdec win in the end please.
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EPT
