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Please stop the caster bashing. You can disagree with them and post about it but posts that only serve to bash casters senselessly will be actioned. |
On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;.
Pretty much.
People complaining so much about Push strats when VG and Newbee are two teams that can completely crush a push strat since they are so well practiced in that strat themselves.
The best 2 teams are in the Grand Finals and nobody should have any complaints regarding the current meta since we have seen so many varied playstyles and hero picks (Except Lycan , Fuck Lycan)
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On July 21 2014 10:31 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:30 stuchiu wrote:On July 21 2014 10:27 Count9 wrote:
TI 1 4 west 4 east
TI 2 1 west 7 east
TI 3 4 west 4 east
TI 4 3 west 5 east
Complain about the Chinese invasion when it actually happens ty. I'm honestly much more worried about SEA. They only have the 4 guys from Titan holding them up  should get mushi and ice and maybe chuan back
chuan will likely stay in china, dunno about mushi and iceiceice. SEA has hope, but they need more exposure to other scenes, crossing my fingers that korean dota will be able to support SEA
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On July 21 2014 10:32 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:30 FakeDeath wrote:
So much salt and people whining about smoke seriously?
Icefrog wanted to make the game more active early and not make boringfest games that Dota in the past was known for.
That was the purpose of smoke which is ganking and making stuffs happening.
I rather see active supports roaming trying to get kills than passive supports.
EG clearly was playing for the late game and they got punished hard for it.
RTZ going midas when VG was about to push tier 3.
It was good that VG punished that. C9 actually had really good drafts and play against VG's style, it's definitely not all about smoke. But they're C9 and newton's 3rd law of C9 clearly says for every good decision and play C9 make an equally terrible decision and play must occur at a later time.
I think C9 has shown what could be the way to go against VG in their third game against Na'Vi. Dismantle their push lineup before it comes online with an extreme aggressive early game. The other possibility is to weather the storm against VG but that's almost impossible I'd say. VG too good at pushing. They know their timings and they will abuse the crap out of them.
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On July 21 2014 10:38 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:36 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. Vocal minorities Kipsate. Most people like the aggro style I think. Also it's getting a good mix, people start to hate things after they see nothing but the same thing over and over. This is the exact same style that Na`Vi got popular with in terms of playstyle, heavy aggressive heroes with emphasis on 5man teamfighting, kill you under your tower, take your tower. Thats Na`Vi's style and people don't get bored of that because its Na`Vi, its not about the playstyle, its about the teams. Lived through Stephano 2012 and infestor/broodlords. Can confirm.
but stephano still gains huge popularity because can beat koreans
so if there's a foreign team in dota 2 that do boring strat to beat chinese team
they'll still have huge popularity
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On July 21 2014 10:35 CherryNubCakes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:32 Sevre wrote:On July 21 2014 10:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:24 wuhan_clan wrote:On July 21 2014 10:23 Seraphic wrote:On July 21 2014 10:20 Garrl wrote:
people are SERIOUSLY complaining about a vici newbee finals? The two teams that have clearly proven themselves to be the best - newbee fought all the way from elimination to the grand finals without dropping a set and vici being #1 in pools. All because of "WELL THEYRE CHINESE"? cuz of how SC2 has turned into. Pure Koreans for finals every tournament is boring as hell. Just the thought of it happening in DotA 2 with pure Chinese teams all the time is not a good thought. Except its not all the time. In fact, there has never been a pure Chinese finals EVER in any internationally attended Dota 2 tournament. But it feels closer and closer to happening is the point. In the last 8 months, chinese Dota has got a lot better relative to the competition. This was exactly the same situation post-TI2, when Na'Vi were seen as the only hope for the West. But Dota is an incredibly difficult game to consistently dominate in because of the way the meta changes and teams constantly outdraft each other and strategize. You just can't compare this to SC2 where the meta is fairly set in stone between expansions and players rely on their individual mechanical skill to win. Koreans can dominate SC2 because of the focus on individual development, which can be achieved through pouring resources into teamhouses, practices, and coaching. The Chinese had all of the resources before TI3 and it didn't do them any good, how is it any different here? Once teams figure out Vici and Newbee they will fall, just like Alliance, iG, Na'Vi, LGD.cn, and the other teams who've sat at the top of several power rankings for extended periods of time. China's collapse at TI3 was due to a lack of tournaments and the fact that the transition to Dota2 hugely diminished the pool of talented "young" players. Plus they got complacent and stopped following the western scene until Alliance wrecked them at G1-League.
If there was a diminished pool of talented players it couldn't have hurt them too much considering most of the Chinese players are the same ones from TI2 and TI3, just reshuffled onto different teams. I think Dota is more about teamwork and theorycrafting than most, if not all, other e-Sports, so I don't buy into the "This is the end of Western Dota" scaremongering. I'm pretty sure I have history on my side here, but we'll see next year if I'm right or wrong.
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On July 21 2014 10:36 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. Vocal minorities Kipsate. Most people like the aggro style I think. Also it's getting a good mix, people start to hate things after they see nothing but the same thing over and over. This is the exact same style that Na`Vi got popular with in terms of playstyle, heavy aggressive heroes with emphasis on 5man teamfighting, kill you under your tower, take your tower. Thats Na`Vi's style and people don't get bored of that because its Na`Vi, its not about the playstyle, its about the teams.
Well teams get fans because fans liked their signature playstyle.
There is one exception though. People like C9 because EE and singsing is there. I have no idea if people actually like their playstyle.
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On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;.
this is actually beautifully said haha. there's a reason why i love players in sports and not teams. don't worry about jerseys/team names/sponsors - they change every season. love players, and you'll be much happier.
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On July 21 2014 10:39 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:38 stuchiu wrote:On July 21 2014 10:36 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. Vocal minorities Kipsate. Most people like the aggro style I think. Also it's getting a good mix, people start to hate things after they see nothing but the same thing over and over. This is the exact same style that Na`Vi got popular with in terms of playstyle, heavy aggressive heroes with emphasis on 5man teamfighting, kill you under your tower, take your tower. Thats Na`Vi's style and people don't get bored of that because its Na`Vi, its not about the playstyle, its about the teams. Lived through Stephano 2012 and infestor/broodlords. Can confirm. but stephano still gains huge popularity because can beat koreans so if there's a foreign team in dota 2 that do boring strat to beat chinese team they'll still have huge popularity
I love Stephano just because he's Stephano. Great personality, great guy... the only streamer I ever watch.
Shallow? Maybe, but it's what interests me. He doesn't really beat Korean's anymore either.
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On July 21 2014 10:27 blobrus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:26 iv~nk~j wrote:On July 21 2014 10:22 blobrus wrote:On July 21 2014 10:20 Garrl wrote:
people are SERIOUSLY complaining about a vici newbee finals? The two teams that have clearly proven themselves to be the best - newbee fought all the way from elimination to the grand finals without dropping a set and vici being #1 in pools. All because of "WELL THEYRE CHINESE"? I'm just not very excited for the 5 man deathballs that will inevitably be the entire series. I also hate Newbee with a passion. why? because of alleged xenophobia that was based on very weak evidence? didn't iceiceice himself say that other chinese teams didn't like to scrim against DK leading up to TI4 because it felt like DK was just scouting other teams while doing joke drafts themselves like mid huskar etc.? everyone in nB bar xiao8 is absolutely fantastic individual player and even the director makes up for it with his leadership hao is pretty much the chinese XBOCT (at times over-aggressive carry player that likes to go YOLO, very unique for chinese dota scene) and people still hate them because of some petty shit it's pretty sad almost as sad as people disliking "rat dota" because for some reason right clicking heroes is so much more spectacular than right clicking towers I literally said nothing about any of my reasons, I just said I hate them. Don't pull words out of my mouth.
your hate hurts esports, don't do it.
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People will still watch the finals to see how it looks for someone to win $1,000,000. It's just that having a NA team, the region considered to be the weakest by far, be in the finals is a much better story.
TI1 GF: West vs East
TI2 GF: West vs East
TI3 GF: West vs West
TI4 GF: East vs East
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 21 2014 10:37 Seraphic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:35 opterown wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. DK gets a lot of love because they have SEA guys. if mushi and iceiceice were chinese nationality they wouldn't be nearly as liked, even if they were identical otherwise. Iuno about that really. It's Burning. He is probably one of the most loved players in DotA 2 and he has earned it. It's just hard to see him not win TI and retire.
DK did not nearrrllyyyyy have as many fans last year at TI3. sure burning has a big fanbase but the huge explosion is all the SEA duo
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On July 21 2014 10:39 hootsushi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:32 Count9 wrote:On July 21 2014 10:30 FakeDeath wrote:
So much salt and people whining about smoke seriously?
Icefrog wanted to make the game more active early and not make boringfest games that Dota in the past was known for.
That was the purpose of smoke which is ganking and making stuffs happening.
I rather see active supports roaming trying to get kills than passive supports.
EG clearly was playing for the late game and they got punished hard for it.
RTZ going midas when VG was about to push tier 3.
It was good that VG punished that. C9 actually had really good drafts and play against VG's style, it's definitely not all about smoke. But they're C9 and newton's 3rd law of C9 clearly says for every good decision and play C9 make an equally terrible decision and play must occur at a later time. I think C9 has shown what could be the way to go against VG in their third game against Na'Vi. Dismantle their push lineup before it comes online with an extreme aggressive early game. The other possibility is to weather the storm against VG but that's almost impossible I'd say. VG too good at pushing. They know their timings and they will abuse the crap out of them.
They did the good old, fuck the creeps and wave clear kill the heroes strat.
And I agree with everyone saying people loved it when Navi did this shit. After TI 1 when navi would win a game in 16 min with ench/chen pushes people ate it up.
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On July 21 2014 10:38 oniman999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:36 Plansix wrote:On July 21 2014 10:34 oniman999 wrote:On July 21 2014 10:30 FakeDeath wrote:
So much salt and people whining about smoke seriously?
Icefrog wanted to make the game more active early and not make boringfest games that Dota in the past was known for.
That was the purpose of smoke which is ganking and making stuffs happening.
I rather see active supports roaming trying to get kills than passive supports.
EG clearly was playing for the late game and they got punished hard for it.
RTZ going midas when VG was about to push tier 3.
It was good that VG punished that. So you really have no issue with the strongest teams being the ones who draft for strong early game, smoke for kills, take objectives from that advantage, and then just kinda snowball into 30 minute game wins or less? I like kills and ganks too, I don't like 5 man deathball tank/push playstyle. You dont have to nerf smokes strengths, but you can make it cost more or be able to buy them less frequently which I think is important because they clearly promote a playstyle that is strongest and I don't really wanna see nothing but 25 minute dota games for a year straight. Draft anything that can deal with the push. What happened to KotL? Seriously, there was some tunnel vision in this years drafting for sure. I thought you were just on the "nerf smoke" side a second ago O.o But I think if it was something you could just draft against, someone would have done it. DK and EG both went down to it, two of the best and most creative draft teams of the year.
I can have both opinions. I just don't like that there are only two things that break smoke and people can use items and not break it. It seems a little much that you can blink while smoked.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On July 21 2014 10:38 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:36 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. Vocal minorities Kipsate. Most people like the aggro style I think. Also it's getting a good mix, people start to hate things after they see nothing but the same thing over and over. This is the exact same style that Na`Vi got popular with in terms of playstyle, heavy aggressive heroes with emphasis on 5man teamfighting, kill you under your tower, take your tower. Thats Na`Vi's style and people don't get bored of that because its Na`Vi, its not about the playstyle, its about the teams. Then if it's all about the teams, would you say the whining about a Vici vs Newbee final is justified? It's true that most people don't need to see the highest level Dota, they want to see crazy games with the teams they love.
Sure
However to complain about playstyle is a bit odd.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
PPL are just baby's. Just watch the finals and enjoy.
Currently china teams are working harder and its paying off.
Nothing more.
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On July 21 2014 10:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:37 icystorage wrote:
"omg 5 man push disgusting!"
"omg rat dota disgusting!"
"omg 322 minute chinese game disgusting!"
"omg unconventional picks throw 322 v0lv0 pls!"
"omg naga/tinker disgusting!"
"omg razor! disgusting"
"omg tide and void again icefrog pls!"
"omg east vs east chinese incoming!"
"omg volvo why are lines too long!!"
"VOLVO PLS CHEW MY FOOD FOR ME SO I DONT HAVE TO I ONLY HAVE TO SWALLOW" I just want to be able to detect smoke gank without having to face hump the hero doing it. Beyond that, its pretty good.
Exactly just this. So that it provides you can actually play smart with it or against it.
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On July 21 2014 10:40 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:36 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. Vocal minorities Kipsate. Most people like the aggro style I think. Also it's getting a good mix, people start to hate things after they see nothing but the same thing over and over. This is the exact same style that Na`Vi got popular with in terms of playstyle, heavy aggressive heroes with emphasis on 5man teamfighting, kill you under your tower, take your tower. Thats Na`Vi's style and people don't get bored of that because its Na`Vi, its not about the playstyle, its about the teams. Well teams get fans because fans liked their signature playstyle. There is one exception though. People like C9 because EE and singsing is there. I have no idea if people actually like their playstyle.
C9's style is to do something completely amazing one game.
Then next game do something so confusingly stupid it blows your mind what they are thinking.
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On July 21 2014 10:41 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:38 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:36 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. Vocal minorities Kipsate. Most people like the aggro style I think. Also it's getting a good mix, people start to hate things after they see nothing but the same thing over and over. This is the exact same style that Na`Vi got popular with in terms of playstyle, heavy aggressive heroes with emphasis on 5man teamfighting, kill you under your tower, take your tower. Thats Na`Vi's style and people don't get bored of that because its Na`Vi, its not about the playstyle, its about the teams. Then if it's all about the teams, would you say the whining about a Vici vs Newbee final is justified? It's true that most people don't need to see the highest level Dota, they want to see crazy games with the teams they love. Sure However to complain about playstyle is a bit odd.
I don't think we've actually seen too much complaining about playstyle of Vici. I think it's just people are sour for a few minutes after their team loses, and then it all dies down.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On July 21 2014 10:40 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:39 Vertical wrote:On July 21 2014 10:38 stuchiu wrote:On July 21 2014 10:36 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:35 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 10:33 Kipsate wrote:
Not sure what people want to watch
They hate Rat style if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Push if its by a Chinese team not DK
They hate Aggressive ganking if its a Chinese team not DK
They hate teamfight unless its by a Chinese team not DK
;;. Vocal minorities Kipsate. Most people like the aggro style I think. Also it's getting a good mix, people start to hate things after they see nothing but the same thing over and over. This is the exact same style that Na`Vi got popular with in terms of playstyle, heavy aggressive heroes with emphasis on 5man teamfighting, kill you under your tower, take your tower. Thats Na`Vi's style and people don't get bored of that because its Na`Vi, its not about the playstyle, its about the teams. Lived through Stephano 2012 and infestor/broodlords. Can confirm. but stephano still gains huge popularity because can beat koreans so if there's a foreign team in dota 2 that do boring strat to beat chinese team they'll still have huge popularity I love Stephano just because he's Stephano. Great personality, great guy... the only streamer I ever watch. Shallow? Maybe, but it's what interests me. He doesn't really beat Korean's anymore either.
Patience confirmed Ukranian now.
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On July 21 2014 10:39 hootsushi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 10:32 Count9 wrote:On July 21 2014 10:30 FakeDeath wrote:
So much salt and people whining about smoke seriously?
Icefrog wanted to make the game more active early and not make boringfest games that Dota in the past was known for.
That was the purpose of smoke which is ganking and making stuffs happening.
I rather see active supports roaming trying to get kills than passive supports.
EG clearly was playing for the late game and they got punished hard for it.
RTZ going midas when VG was about to push tier 3.
It was good that VG punished that. C9 actually had really good drafts and play against VG's style, it's definitely not all about smoke. But they're C9 and newton's 3rd law of C9 clearly says for every good decision and play C9 make an equally terrible decision and play must occur at a later time. I think C9 has shown what could be the way to go against VG in their third game against Na'Vi. Dismantle their push lineup before it comes online with an extreme aggressive early game. The other possibility is to weather the storm against VG but that's almost impossible I'd say. VG too good at pushing. They know their timings and they will abuse the crap out of them.
That game was half C9 played really well, half NaVi having no clue at all how to run a push strat. C9 later tried some similar stuff against VG's push and were not nearly as successful.
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EPT
