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On November 20 2017 09:24 LemOn wrote:
Well as 4 you don't really care about counters much
3pos early pick's been meh people counter you
and 1pos is just shit and always was
Like Jugg rapes you lategame (just watch jugg ulti on balling Pangol :D)
people still care about position 4 spiritbreakers, enigmas, axes, no? those heroes can turnaround games even though theyre position 4.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/7dr5d4/pangolier_ball_interuption/
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Here's the actual vod for the support Pangolier game Bismarck referred to upthread:
+ Show Spoiler +
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While that's pretty cool and looks fairly timing dependent, it also looks like a bug and there's a good chance the hero sees a nerf soonish unless he gets figured out. So I wouldn't bet on that staying in the game.
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On November 20 2017 11:44 Archeon wrote:While that's pretty cool and looks fairly timing dependent, it also looks like a bug and there's a good chance the hero sees a nerf soonish unless he gets figured out. So I wouldn't bet on that staying in the game.
To be clear, that swashbuckle cancel trick only has the shield crash effect and not rolling thunder. The stun duration came from the basher.
There's another trick out there where you rolling thunder onto a hero, immediately eul yourself on the same spot, when you come down from the eul, you will stun the guy again with rolling thunder.
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On November 19 2017 18:52 rabidch wrote:
pangolier is not a damage hero.
I think many have reacted but I do not feel this is true. In fact I believe this is the second most common misconception about the hero. The first being to try to make him a carry, as the UI weirdly suggests.
Second misconception is to believe he doesn't do damage. He does a ton of damage, and he farms oh-so-easily too, so getting your items is not an issue, even with a slow early game.
It's just that he doesn't really have solo kill potential. But, with some procs, he will still take half of your core HP in one pass.
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The same is true for puck. I think there's a misunderstanding here: "Pangolier is not a damage hero" doesn't mean he can't do damage. I think what people mean by that is that you don't pick him for the damage.
His strengths are his self reliance in lane, his elusiveness and his disruption power. The damage is a nice bonus, but focusing on it seems detrimental.
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Well said.
I'd put it like that : he's not a pos1 nor 2. He's a good pos3 or 4.
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On November 20 2017 23:42 nothingmuch wrote:
The same is true for puck. I think there's a misunderstanding here: "Pangolier is not a damage hero" doesn't mean he can't do damage. I think what people mean by that is that you don't pick him for the damage.
His strengths are his self reliance in lane, his elusiveness and his disruption power. The damage is a nice bonus, but focusing on it seems detrimental.
Except Pango deals a load more damage than Puck. He is extremely disruptive just as a cherrytop.
Puck's combo is at 960 damage at lvl 12, Pango's is at 1162 if he double hits with rolling thunder. Puck scales 200 damage up, Pango gets +300 damage from the 2 second cd talent and 75/150 per hit of his ultimate. I've seen Pangos get 3 ultimate hits in chokepoints multiple times, which adds up to 1150 damage just from his ultimate at lvl 18, with 2-3 shield crashes you are at 1750/2050 damage respectively, swashbuckle (a 2-javelin+diffu averages at 672 damage without the talent) not even counted.
Hell even with 2 ultimate hits, 2 shield crashes and a non-itemized swashbuckle he's at 1612 damage at lvl 18, which is higher than Lina's spell combo (1360).
Pango also has lower cd on swashbuckle than Puck on Illusory Orb as well as a 20 second shorter cd on Rolling Thunder than Puck's Dream Coil.
So if you don't pick Pango for the damage, you are missing that he's one of the highest spell-damage heroes in the game.
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How does that matter lols
more damage (especially lategame) but less reliability
Btw another midas mode game
Another Pangolier
Greedy 4Position
soulring stick raindrop into dagger into basher
Pretty much a consensus now
3/4Pos=>mana items=>Dagger=> whatever you want
They really should change the default guide in Dota at this point
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Actually did they play him mid?:D
he got same farm as my 4 lol
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On November 22 2017 06:54 LemOn wrote:
How does that matter lols
more damage (especially lategame) but less reliability
Btw another midas mode game
Another Pangolier
Greedy 4Position
soulring stick raindrop into dagger into basher
Pretty much a consensus now
3/4Pos=>mana items=>Dagger=> whatever you want
They really should change the default guide in Dota at this point
He's not super reliable in competitive games but in pubs where everyone is running around with their heads cut off he pretty much dominates, similar to how Storm and other high mobility heroes can just disrupt and outplay people with better positioning.
His winrate sucks just because people don't know how to play him and were building shitty items on him, but Mana Item = > Basher = > Blink is a pretty good go to for the most part. Early Jav stacking is fine if you are trying to snowball quickly, and early dagger is better the higher up you go in level of play and have teammates that can capitalize.
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On November 21 2017 17:42 Archeon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2017 23:42 nothingmuch wrote:
The same is true for puck. I think there's a misunderstanding here: "Pangolier is not a damage hero" doesn't mean he can't do damage. I think what people mean by that is that you don't pick him for the damage.
His strengths are his self reliance in lane, his elusiveness and his disruption power. The damage is a nice bonus, but focusing on it seems detrimental. Except Pango deals a load more damage than Puck. He is extremely disruptive just as a cherrytop. Puck's combo is at 960 damage at lvl 12, Pango's is at 1162 if he double hits with rolling thunder. Puck scales 200 damage up, Pango gets +300 damage from the 2 second cd talent and 75/150 per hit of his ultimate. I've seen Pangos get 3 ultimate hits in chokepoints multiple times, which adds up to 1150 damage just from his ultimate at lvl 18, with 2-3 shield crashes you are at 1750/2050 damage respectively, swashbuckle (a 2-javelin+diffu averages at 672 damage without the talent) not even counted. Hell even with 2 ultimate hits, 2 shield crashes and a non-itemized swashbuckle he's at 1612 damage at lvl 18, which is higher than Lina's spell combo (1360). Pango also has lower cd on swashbuckle than Puck on Illusory Orb as well as a 20 second shorter cd on Rolling Thunder than Puck's Dream Coil. So if you don't pick Pango for the damage, you are missing that he's one of the highest spell-damage heroes in the game.
I think... I think I won't bother. gl to you.
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On November 22 2017 08:05 LemOn wrote:
Actually did they play him mid?:D
he got same farm as my 4 lol
I didn't see all the games but I don't think so, every Pangolier I've seen was offlane except for "this is the first time I play this" w33has Pango.
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On November 20 2017 23:42 nothingmuch wrote:
The same is true for puck. I think there's a misunderstanding here: "Pangolier is not a damage hero" doesn't mean he can't do damage. I think what people mean by that is that you don't pick him for the damage.
His strengths are his self reliance in lane, his elusiveness and his disruption power. The damage is a nice bonus, but focusing on it seems detrimental.
this, basically.
of course he has the potential to do a lot of damage...
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On November 22 2017 18:16 nothingmuch wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 08:05 LemOn wrote:
Actually did they play him mid?:D
he got same farm as my 4 lol I didn't see all the games but I don't think so, every Pangolier I've seen was offlane except for "this is the first time I play this" w33has Pango.
He was safelane actually
But basically got sacked vs Lich+arc
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Just played Pangolin, a ton of fun! Gotta get used to the ult control, and getting ruptured during it sucks, but definitely going to main him when offlaning. I wish camera followed me, i do lose sight of where I am sometimes as him.
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On November 22 2017 13:38 superstartran wrote:
(...)
His winrate sucks just because people don't know how to play him and were building shitty items on him, but Mana Item = > Basher = > Blink is a pretty good go to for the most part. Early Jav stacking is fine if you are trying to snowball quickly, and early dagger is better the higher up you go in level of play and have teammates that can capitalize.
I think this hits the spot!
Most guys here don't seem to realize that different builds are advisable for different mmr.
I know that, against my opponents, I don't need the blink too early. This might differ from your experience because your opponents position themselves better.
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the stuff one can do with pangolier blink is ridiculous though, with or without proper positioning. even the solo kill potential is upped with correct combo usage at level 15, no chokepoints needed
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You mean the rolling-jump and after 2s blink to do it again?
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On November 24 2017 02:02 Jelissei wrote:
You mean the rolling-jump and after 2s blink to do it again?
Double Roll hit + double shield crash = > Swashbuckler => Shield Crash
Pretty much dead hero no matter what. You can get triple hits if you're in choke holds very easily.
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EPT
