EPT[Hero] Pangolier - Page 8
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Papercappu
Canada2210 Posts
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Archeon
3253 Posts
The only reason the hero is remotely balanced atm is because his ultimate can be countered by a 2k gold item. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
If you are playing it as pos 3 offlane hero, I definitely think it is worth it. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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Papercappu
Canada2210 Posts
On January 22 2018 12:52 Archeon wrote: Javelin is only built on the hero which tells everything about it's competitiveness. Javelin isn't the problem, Pango is. The only reason the hero is remotely balanced atm is because his ultimate can be countered by a 2k gold item. build javelin on windrunner & tell me again how balanced that item is. its maybe not as good as maelstorm build but you can still see how strong javelin is right now. also nerfing pango itself will just made that hero useless in the long run | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Your argument for javelin is that there exists one more hero on whom it wouldn't be terrible if she didn't have a straight better alternative? While she is in the dumpster? And that's why Javelin is the problem and not Pango? While half of this thread is about the argument of how necessary Javelin is or isn't and which one of the dozens of ways you can build the hero is optimal? | ||
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Papercappu
Canada2210 Posts
On January 25 2018 00:25 Archeon wrote: So let me get this straight: Your argument for javelin is that there exists one more hero on whom it wouldn't be terrible if she didn't have a straight better alternative? While she is in the dumpster? And that's why Javelin is the problem and not Pango? While half of this thread is about the argument of how necessary Javelin is or isn't and which one of the dozens of ways you can build the hero is optimal? im saying while its not ideal to build javelins on WR,you can still see how strong that item is when she build it. WR being weak is irrelevant. focus fire is just not as good as swashbuckle for farming & teamfight pango was weak before people start stacking javelins on him. so yeah it is necessary for me | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6226 Posts
That said, I think it's fair to say that having any hero bulk-stacking a minor item is silly. If you were going to nerf pango directly, it would be desirable if he stopped wanting to stack javs afterwards as well. Because nobody else does it, a small nerf to jav would probably be fine. But that's only the case because it turns out to be convenient and because jav stacking is silly, not because jav itself is especially strong. And realistically, balance suggestions are as useless as they always were. Valve is going to do whatever weird thing they deem best. It's been a few years since their halo fell off in that regard, as well. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
His w damage is very high and gives him crazy waveclear mid game.combined with mana talent and charities you can’t really be underfarmed on this hero unless the game is way out of hand. If his w damage was only to heroes, then you’d have to stick around last hitting in lane and you’d be more prone to mid game Ganks. And you could keep his q as his iconic thing 20 str talent prob too good as well. His q should have a range that scales per level. 1k at lv 1 is dumb. His mana regen talent is pretty nuts, you can go brown boots Aquila and be good till you want bots. And either nerf lv 1 - 2 ult CD, or get rid of activated items while in ball | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
And I agree that Swashbuckle lvl 1 should get the general mobility skill treatment and have range scale with levels. | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
Secret vs Mineski, DAC (Group stage) : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/244965439 I didn't play dota 2 since december 2017 but, this seems like quite a stretch from the build we (I) was doing back then. Very nice match to watch in any case. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
1) He's clearly not overpowered, gets straight up ignored often 2) It's a Roamer hero (+situational Utility 3 like Icex3 played him) rather than how people play him in pubs | ||
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Hybrid Chaos
24 Posts
A hero that rightly needs to be complained about is anti mage all day every day. the hero still...STILL...has too much transitional value into the late game no matter how far behind he is. I of course know ways to keep him down and such but I get on teams that neither care to try or pick the right items / hero's to keep him down to the point that I just get sick of that hero being a str8 ez hero to play for anyone. and yes am is an escape hero just like my previous argument for pango. But I am more concerned of am's talent tree along with his two stupid as hell passives. Especially mana break which is still too powerful. you slap cleave and manta on and away you fucking go. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Also wtf "no matter how far behind he is". There are a lot of heroes who beat AM to a pulp on similar slots, AM is a massive timing hero. Also how is he more worthy of complaint than a hero who stacks items that add 0-400 damage without PRD on his nuke, has an innate bkb+MS buff, has 2.5 mobility skills and can deal up to 2.6k magic damage in the right situation during his magic immunity? It's like taking the most annoying stuff from Slark, RNG damage from PA and put it on top of SB, the only two heroes who can beat that are Tinker and Techies imo. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
But why bring up antimage of all heroes heh, the poor guy is so weak in this meta (both pub and pro games) | ||
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Hybrid Chaos
24 Posts
With out his roll though pango is squishy and the animation has a cast time that often seems to get interrupted. and his ult had an increase to the cd which I think is balanced. My complaint about the am with how far he is, is that people never pick the right items or heros to keep him down. but with pango he has a q that can mana break if he has the item, other than that he relies on procs. I feel heart piercer is very weak besides the slow for a passive. a simple orchid or any silence hero crushes pango. While am can still right click fight since his right click is so much better. I guess I was doing a comparable to identify why I think pango is not overpowered. Sorry if that triggered you. Pango, in my opinion, is just easier to manage. I have never been in a game and worried about a pango to extremes. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
Idk how you never were worried of a Pango though, he rolled over every game where he had a good lane from me. Obviously the sample size is very small for both of us and numbers wise both heroes are rather on the UP side than vice versa. But "you can't hard-counter a hero with a single item" goes for pretty much every farming core imo and Euls and Lotus are both great items on Pango. Pango gets harder countered by Dom to boot imo. Also if you can silence him he's playing wrongly or you have a shadowblade/blink/Silencer. Swashbuckle has no casttime worthy of the name and if he starts rolling in front of you instead of behind a tree you either have no disable or he's an idiot. But if you play a lot of Slark f.e. I could see why you aren't as worried about him as about an AM, Pango doesn't have a lot of fast kill potential on Slark unless he gets incredible procc luck. But he can solo-kill a lot of cores in bad positions basically only with his spells. | ||
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Hybrid Chaos
24 Posts
and by no means did I mean my previous post to you in a negative way  And ya the size of the samples is rather different because I see AM way more, WAY MORE, than pango. Dam now I want to go home and play pango. | ||
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Archeon
3253 Posts
I didn't take it in a negative way I see way more Pangos than AMs, AM basically doesn't exist between 4 and 5k according to my experience while I seem to have a Pango in ever 3rd or 4th game. Might be a server thing, might be my imagination because I notice Pango more than AM. According to dotabuff Pango is slightly less picked in 3k+ and slightly more picked in 4k+ than AM, but in neither exists a substantial difference in pickrates. So yes, my selective memory <.< | ||
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