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On January 03 2016 03:01 evilfatsh1t wrote:
you dont need direct buffs to the hero to bring it back to life. tweaking things elsewhere cause enough changes throughout the game that directly tweaking heroes arent always necessary. an easy example of this would be the lane and bounty changes and how it brought about the 6.85 meta in the first place. and dont try and tell me that it was buffs to tusk or someshit that brought the meta about, cause it wasnt.
puck isnt a shit hero at its current state, he just doesnt flourish in the current meta. tweak shit here and there and things will change and puck may be brought back to life without needing to touch the hero. you sound like a child crying for a new toy from his mummy with your simplistic approach to game balancing. yes buffs are a part of patching, but there are better ways to change the game than to just keep giving powerups to everything.
the fact that i even have to explain this is embarrassing enough already
If you actually read what I wrote, you would have seen that I already talked about how Puck is precisely bad atm because of the changes to the game mechanics. Guess reading is harder than writing insults.
The last few patches brought richer supports/general power creep in the form of more gold/minute, comeback-mechanics and more killgold for assisting people. While most of these changes were toned down a bit, they still are in the game and will probably continue to do so. It's the aoe-gold that created the 6.85 meta and as a result the 6.86 meta.
Puck is foremost a tempo controller and relies on snowballing, so the general exp and gold creep is terrible for him. Aoe-bounty however is awesome for heroes that can fight well early, one of the reasons why hard carries have pretty much vanished from the pro scene and gyro is the most picked hero in 6.86 so far.
So the current meta is actually really good for fighting mids like Puck. The top 2 mid picks in pro matches atm are Invoker and QoP. Puck? Nowhere in sight. The reason these tempo mids do well and Puck does not is because they got buffed a lot to be still viable while IF creeped the living hell out of supports (the things tempo mids farm). If IF changed the meta to something more lategame oriented these heroes would fall of a cliff.
It's because I'm calculating the game mechanics in that I'm thinking of a way to make Puck viable. The meta isn't the problem, Puck should be awesome atm.
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not sure why you thought i didnt get your message the first time, because i did. its just irrelevant to my post. you would know this if you could read yourself, because your whole post just goes completely off tangent to my point which is puck doesnt need to be touched. you can bring up as many stats as you want to help your argument but its pointless because you barely touch on my main point. essentially youre saying other heroes got buffed and puck has been left behind, which is why puck must be buffed.
i have already said that you can indirect buffs are enough to bring a hero back to life and therefore puck doesnt need to be touched. hes good enough already, and any buff to puck to make him 'viable' would probably just make him too strong, like evan said.
you can go find more stats and try and refute my claim that indirect buffs will be enough for puck but im not gonna bother responding and repeating myself anyway
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On January 03 2016 11:56 evilfatsh1t wrote:
not sure why you thought i didnt get your message the first time, because i did. its just irrelevant to my post. you would know this if you could read yourself, because your whole post just goes completely off tangent to my point which is puck doesnt need to be touched. you can bring up as many stats as you want to help your argument but its pointless because you barely touch on my main point. essentially youre saying other heroes got buffed and puck has been left behind, which is why puck must be buffed.
i have already said that you can indirect buffs are enough to bring a hero back to life and therefore puck doesnt need to be touched. hes good enough already, and any buff to puck to make him 'viable' would probably just make him too strong, like evan said.
you can go find more stats and try and refute my claim that indirect buffs will be enough for puck but im not gonna bother responding and repeating myself anyway
I'm not posting in the tidehunter or enigma thread because I can see your point for those heroes. Indirect buffs can bring both back. But you have to change the game by a lot more to bring Puck back and not overbuff similar heroes. Tbh I expect a kill gold reversal or a creep gold buff for the next patch, which would both hurt Puck.
But if you don't want to discuss the only point you made, whatever.
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On January 02 2016 17:03 evilfatsh1t wrote:
because buffing everything that is shit isnt the solution to balancing a game. you keep on buffing everything and eventually we will see a game that is no different to lol. implementations of new mechanics such as scaling damage and bigger numbers overall.
LoL is not comparable to a power creeped Dota. It has generally higher cds, lower damage, lower range, and shorter disable duration on the majority of its spells. It's more like Dota pre level 6 the entire game.
On topic though Puck is not even a tier 3 pick right now and since it it's a hero that absolutelyeveryone has been familiar with for years it's nothing to do with that (like how techies was underpicked or how earth spirit currently is now)
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It's sad, Puck is easily one of my favorite characters but it feels so hard to win with him these days. The only times I pick him are when I'm playing with lowbie friends, usually in the offlane.
I know this is unconventional and normally not how you'd play the hero, but do you guys have any suggestions on what items to pick up when you need more right-click damage late game? Obviously, if you are relying on Puck for right clicks late game you are in a pretty dire place. But we've all had those games where a carry who had all the space in the world shows up to the lategame with a HotD, crystalys and half a black king bar.
The thing is puck's attack speed sucks SO much and his slow turn rate makes hectic fights tricky. I've been opting for a Desolator in these situations, praying that it will hopefully increase the damage output of my underfarmed team mates.
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something like mjollnir probably
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Can Puck turn in Phase Shift? ie Click to turn 180 but Phase Shift before complete turn. Where is Puck facing when s/he comes out?
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I didn't think so, but after hopping into a lobby to test it out he does continue turning while in his phase shift. You can even see the little directional arrow rotate beneath him.
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puck turns in phase shift like how magnus can turn during reverse polarity.
issue the command before you phase shift and puck will appear facing that direction
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What's the deal with veil first puck. Your damage is high enough early on, and I'd say you always are better off with an earlier blink. A late blink on puck makes you lose out on so many playmaking opportunities.
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On June 04 2016 04:12 DucK- wrote:
What's the deal with veil first puck. Your damage is high enough early on, and I'd say you always are better off with an earlier blink. A late blink on puck makes you lose out on so many playmaking opportunities.
I don't remember which pro said on stream it was an amazing farming item on puck because it allowed to instantly blow up creeps wave.
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On June 04 2016 04:12 DucK- wrote:
What's the deal with veil first puck. Your damage is high enough early on, and I'd say you always are better off with an earlier blink. A late blink on puck makes you lose out on so many playmaking opportunities.
Thats what i thought too and then i tried it out once and was convinced. I mean it rly depends on the game i think but dont underestimate the laning/farming advantage and solo kill potiential/teamfight dmg with the right combo an early veil gives u and how many times a blink dagger isnt "needed" during the most early game fights if u hide/tp in properly
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The extra HP & armor also makes a big difference early on I find and makes you just a little bit harder to kill.
It's one of those things where you can probably get veil -> blink faster in most cases than you could get blink -> 1 item.
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If puck had farming/solo killing problems, I'd buy your arguments. But nope the hero clears waves easily, and can pick off squishy supports fairly easily with blink. The gain from veil feels too weak to justify the delaying of blink, which may cost you team fights because you lack mobility or good initiations.
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The new veil is incredible on any farming hero with a bit of magical damage.
On Puck you want veil blink radiance octarine. 8min veil into a 12min blink 19min radi 25min octa.
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Puck does have a very slight flash clearing problems doesn't he?
Orb + Silence is 560 damage. After the first upgrade melee creeps have 562 hp.
By having Veil you don't need to hit every melee creep once, which sounds minor but does actually make a reasonable difference in the time it takes to clear a wave. There's also the extra mana and hp regen to sustain better too.
Like in general it's a great item on Puck in a lot of games and if you're going to build it, you should probably build it first to dominate your lane as much as possible & because it helps accelerate your early farm. Your blink timing is slower, but I think you'll have blink + veil much faster if you build the veil first over blink first.
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No doubt you get both faster. But as several games in the major has shown, delaying that blink means you can't take so many fights well, while also leaving you vulnerable because of your lack of mobility. Its a window when hitting a multi hero silence wins you fights.
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Radiance on Puck? Isn't that hero normally played as an initiator/disabler? That almost seems to meme-y but I'm intrigued. Can you tell me more about that build?
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On June 04 2016 08:23 Logo wrote:
Puck does have a very slight flash clearing problems doesn't he?
Orb + Silence is 560 damage. After the first upgrade melee creeps have 562 hp.
By having Veil you don't need to hit every melee creep once, which sounds minor but does actually make a reasonable difference in the time it takes to clear a wave. There's also the extra mana and hp regen to sustain better too.
Like in general it's a great item on Puck in a lot of games and if you're going to build it, you should probably build it first to dominate your lane as much as possible & because it helps accelerate your early farm. Your blink timing is slower, but I think you'll have blink + veil much faster if you build the veil first over blink first.
With intelligence giving percentage damage to nukes, Puck doesn't have that problem.
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On June 04 2016 12:04 NAwk wrote:
Radiance on Puck? Isn't that hero normally played as an initiator/disabler? That almost seems to meme-y but I'm intrigued. Can you tell me more about that build?
Radiance is just a very good item so if you have no heroes rushing it you should go for it.
And with veil you actually farm so fast that you can get it at a decent timing.
All of pucks damage is magical, veil makes you destroy any support or any hero when you have a +1.
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EPT
