EPT[Hero] Spectre - Page 26
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On September 13 2015 08:32 babysimba wrote: Please don't get vanguard on this hero. Better off getting pms early in a contested lane and top up with additional items. I even got a casual helm once, +5 armor and +3 regen compared to RoH is pretty sick. I tried phase but this hero is like impossible to play without getting the additional mana from drums, so drums is a must with phase. I like int tread switching though and the attack speed boost your dps for farming and manfighting. Bottle is very underrated on spectre considering you will be fighting a lot and useful for regen in contested lane. Bottle is equivalent to very cost efficient hp boost in teamfights too. You will get lots of opportunities to heal when weaving in and out of trees. the games you get vanguard you need the hp in addition to the damage block... the hp for the spell burst and the damage block for the followup autos you could get pms casual vit booster bottle but 75% chance to block 40 damage vs blocking 20 damage can still mean the difference between surviving and dying vs some kind of burst combo. | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On September 13 2015 05:16 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: this is a pretty questionable statement... if you're talking about absolute dps when able to hit someone on attack cd then it hasn't changed (only the ms has) and if you're talking about situational dps (i.e. dps dependent on your ability to hit your target), then well it's situational... sometimes a basher, diffusal, or even bkb will be better for your ability to actually output your dps and i was talking about mainly spectre, but even on the heroes it was popular on, jugg and void, it was just as much a farming item as it was a fighting item. like if you want an item to assist with gap closing on spec diffusal is the much safer choice, and if you're getting mom before radiance, as i've said, it's primarily for farming, not fighting. you aren't going to haunt into fights you wouldnt otherwise have haunted into just because you have a mom, and you aren't ever going to go out of your way to look for kills without haunt anyhow. im fairly certain i heard pros saying that because of the attack speed for its cost, it was the most cost efficient item. i could be wrong though. i know you were talking about it on spec, but that's why it saw a nerf..it was way too strong even in situations when it probably shouldnt have been. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
2. i feel like the reason it was nerfed wasn't because of its not-strongest uses, but because of its strongest uses (indirect nerf to jugg mainly)... i don't think icefrog would want to balance in a way such that an item is viable in fewer rather than more circumstances when it's not ridiculously op (i mean just look at glimmer and solar crest which are way worse than mom ever was)... it's not like anyone was saying mom spec/luna was op, it was mainly jugg that was the issue at the time | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
I love Spectre because when played intelligently she can be a very independent I always go to lane with two tangos, a salve, and a stout shield. You can bring 1 or 2 branches as well if you want, getting shield from side shop with passive gold if you bring 2, and then grab quelling from the side shop later, and PMS after that. If you have to play like an offlaner in your own safelane, so be it. You'll make the enemy suffer later. If you already don't have good farm in lane, encourage your support(s) to leave and help out the other cores or maximize their own farm and levels in the jungle-- the faster xp will help you farm and fight. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On September 13 2015 22:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: 1. i didnt dispute that it was the most cost efficient dps item (in situations where your damage/as ratio is damage-heavy) 2. i feel like the reason it was nerfed wasn't because of its not-strongest uses, but because of its strongest uses (indirect nerf to jugg mainly)... i don't think icefrog would want to balance in a way such that an item is viable in fewer rather than more circumstances when it's not ridiculously op (i mean just look at glimmer and solar crest which are way worse than mom ever was)... it's not like anyone was saying mom spec/luna was op, it was mainly jugg that was the issue at the time maybe i misunderstood what part of my statement you were referring to then, sorry /shrug | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
I was thinking about it the wrong way because I was thinking of it in the style of AM & battlefury: since that radiance is so important to the hero, you gotta make sure you get it asap. But the problem with that line of thinking on spectre is that you'll be left naked, weak, and unable to contribute while trying to build that relic. Additionally AM really needs to hit his window ASAP by getting the BF and outfarming the enemy carry, whereas spectre is still really strong with a somewhat late radiance, and is a very strong late-game hero who doesn't need to "hit a window or lose" as much. Plus, spectre can actually help out in early fights, and having aquila/treads can be useful when haunting and farming, and help you secure the radiance in a reasonable amount of time anyway. Thanks guys! I love playing spec, so with luck, this'll help out  | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
I'd say most important thing is that whenever Haunt is off cd, try to have the HP and mana to be able to haunt into a fight and contribute. Even if you don't have Radiance, if you're in range of like 2-3 kills that's putting you like 600+ gold towards your Radiance and it's really not that hard to get kills with desolate | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
It's important to heal before ulting unless you have the farm and/or levels to naturally have a high mana pool-- you aren't that strong even with Radiance if you can't afford to Dagger someone right after Realitying in. Having the mana for a second Dagger is really important, as Spectre's fights aren't always short, and she may be chasing a hero for a very long way to get a kill, such that your normally long Dagger cd will actually finish before the fight (or your subsequent escape) are done. It doesn't make sense however to try and save mana for an ult and Dagger at all times-- that's valuable mana and Dagger cds you should be investing in increasing your rate of farm-- either by softening up an entire creep wave to get back into the jungle sooner or to soften up either at least a stacked camp or multiple camps (ideally hit 2 stacked camps). After you show your team you're going to be aggressive with your ult early two things happen: 1. they know you're going to ult if they start shit, so they have the confidence to set shit up with however many people, be it a 4man push, or a 1-2 man smoke gank, etc; 2. you'll have had the time to identify your team's fight tempo, so you can start to reliably predict when your team is able or willing to fight, so you should know based off how the game has gone so far and based off their current positioning and movement when you need to TP home to heal before a fight. When your ult is coming off cd, let your team know, and see if it makes sense to preemptively TP fountain to heal, so that everyone is ready the moment your ult is off cd to start shit. If you TP and heal up and they either aren't ready or lost their opportunity, just walk towards the nearest farm source and keep an eye on the map to look for good ult opportunities. It's nice to ult from fountain, but it doesn't hurt too much to ult from full everything outside fountain. Don't blow your ult just to be ulting-- if you're actively farming something and your team catches a weak support who is 100% going to die without you, doesn't have much xp or gold to give away, and isn't near an objective or a follow-on fight you'd like to participate in, don't bother ulting. If your team gets initiated on and are getting massacred and you can't for sure get 1-2 backline pick-offs and get out alive, don't waste your ult. It's better to let your team get fucked, wait for them to respawn, wait for them to smoke or get their shit together and initiate a winnable fight, and then ult in to lay waste to the enemy. The exception is if your team no-shit needs you to ult before the fight starts just for that global vision to quickly choose their target and engagement route if they aren't sure if they're near shit with a sketchy smoke or something; and even then don't ult unless you know 100% they will follow-up on your ult and won't pussy out after getting perfect info. In this scenario you may or may not have the time to actually Reality in, since there'll be a delay between you ulting, your team seeing and interpreting the information you gave them, your team making the call on whether or not to go, and you actually choosing the best target to Reality on and executing. Obviously it's better to ult after your team initiates, unless you're already strong and can safely get a guaranteed pickoff on someone. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
just keep 310 mana at all times haunt aggressively to kill steal dagger + urn + 3 auto attacks should be very doable. It's about ~600 damage after reduction, plenty doable on a half hp support. btw the picks are important too. Don't pick spectre against tanky lineups, the more squish they have the better spec will be. | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
Haven't been playing around with yasha Spectre unless i'm having a bad time but it feels like yasha gives Spectre alot more benefits than i give it credit. Would try to use it! | ||
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14CC
93 Posts
On September 15 2015 22:50 evanthebouncy! wrote: before radiance: just keep 310 mana at all times haunt aggressively to kill steal dagger + urn + 3 auto attacks should be very doable. It's about ~600 damage after reduction, plenty doable on a half hp support. btw the picks are important too. Don't pick spectre against tanky lineups, the more squish they have the better spec will be. no less importantly, don't pick spectre if you dont have sufficient breathing room to come online. Spectre-pick can leave your draft vulnerable to collapse early mid game. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
Anyone who actually plays spectre want to comment on this? It looks terrible at first glance, but maybe the extra jungle farming speed/survivability from stats + dispersion coupled with the sustain from lifesteal is actually significant. I'm guessing he's going to pretend he's an am and time max dispersion with finishing manta. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
Also I'm not sure whether it's particularly well-suited for tough games, at least the item build. Feels like in tough games your farming space as spectre is so heavily constricted that pure (and slow) sustain items like morbid mask lose their appeal. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 19 2015 14:19 Orome wrote: Yeah the idea behind the build is pretty clear, I'm just curious about the math (ie. how much more survivable are you really and how much does maxing dispersion do for your jungle farm). Also I'm not sure whether it's particularly well-suited for tough games, at least the item build. Feels like in tough games your farming space as spectre is so heavily constricted that pure (and slow) sustain items like morbid mask lose their appeal. I mean, morbid mask is like best sustain solution, and allows to jump into jungle. With treads+qb even on hero with 0 neutral dps like spectre it works out alright. Actually, i can even see where rtz comes from. points in haunt are somewhat hard to justify before you have radiance, and spectral dagger/desolate have highest returns per point taken at lvl2 (50% differential increase for dagger and 75% damage increase for desolate), while dispersion can actually be a decent amount of damage (for example for hellbear smashers DPS done by dispersion goes 12 to 34 compared to 128 of spectre herself, plus you reduce hellbear's dps from 62 to 48, while healing around 19 per second). Yeah, i totally see where rtz is coming from, because this build indeed can be pretty good for ricing. I don't trust his math ability tho /s | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
alright he's doing another spec game and the build's working out i think it helped him survive once and i dont think he's missed any kills for not having 44 he always goes treads and wand gives a decent amount of hp (17x15=255) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 19 2015 14:44 lolfail9001 wrote: Actually, i can even see where rtz comes from. points in haunt are somewhat hard to justify before you have radiance, and spectral dagger/desolate have highest returns per point taken at lvl2 (50% differential increase for dagger and 75% damage increase for desolate), while dispersion can actually be a decent amount of damage (for example for hellbear smashers DPS done by dispersion goes 12 to 34 compared to 128 of spectre herself, plus you reduce hellbear's dps from 62 to 48, while healing around 19 per second). Yeah, i totally see where rtz is coming from, because this build indeed can be pretty good for ricing. I don't trust his math ability tho /s % damage differential is an incredibly stupid way to compare skill ranks in most cases. Especially for a non-active skill that doesn't cost mana. Really if you take the "% damage differential" shit, then all skills are 1 point wonders because rank 1 is always the biggest % differential effectiveness because you go from not having the skill to having it. In most cases, raw damage increase per rank is the only meaningful comparison. The fact that rank 2 is double rank 1 damage and rank 3 is only 1.5x rank 2 doesn't actually convey any meaningful information because in both cases you just get 50 extra damage out of a rank of the skill. It doesn't make the 3rd rank worse than the 2nd. 50 damage is 50 damage. Dispersion max was a thing before, so it's not really like that's new, but there's not anything special about rank 2 Dagger/Desolate unless you're following the silly "% damage increase" argument, so I don't see why you'd want 2-2-4+stats over 1-1-4+stats, and I definitely don't see why you'd continue to level stats past your Radiance (at that point Radiance comprises the overwhelming majority of your farming ability, so Stats doesn't increase your farming ability much anymore). In fact, that's probably the most questionable part of the build--the fact that he continues to ignore Dagger and Desolate past when he has his Radiance. | ||
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