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United States47024 Posts
On September 11 2015 17:30 ahswtini wrote:
ok so radiances from spectres and her illusions dont stack. if u sedge the main spectre so her radiance burn does less dmg, will it override the full dmg radiance of her illusions? in other words, when there are multiple sources of radiance aura, does anyone kno which one becomes the source that actually does the dmg
When a unit is affected by two instances of the same aura, the unit that gave it the aura first is the source. If that source moves out of range, the other unit becomes the new source.
Since Spectre's illusions are usually the first to affect enemies heroes with Radiance, they will usually be the source of Radiance damage for Haunt's duration.
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I feel like I learn new shit about dota auras every day.
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how bout spec with MOM BM?
has anyone tried that?
if I remember secret used a spec with MOM BKB
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Why bother? It doesn't help you get a faster Radiance and it doesn't keep you alive in fights. Best case scenario is someone blindly blows themselves up on you right before you die. Worst case scenario is they use BKB (which already stomps on her damage) or they just ignore you for the Blademail duration and kill you while you're still amplifying their damage.
What's your problem with using conventional builds on her? All you have to do is get whatever items help you farm or fight your way to a Radiance within 30 minutes and go from there. That's a pretty big window of opportunity-- if you can't manage that you had no business playing Spectre (or probably even carrying for that matter).
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whats your problem with discussing alternative builds?
do you think every game you can get a luxurious farm?
if you enter every game with the mindset of building the same item over and over
thats boring
trying something out and if it gets effective then why not use it?
you think the items that are conventional now aren't joke back then?
but if thats how you play then go if it works for you go.
I'm just here asking and consulting others about my ideas
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If you want to have a discussion, you should explain the purpose of your alternate build ideas, in what scenarios or against what enemies you think it could be effective, and how the normal builds fail in these scenarios.
My problem is that the good information I've been putting out from my experience on one of my strongest and most-played heroes is getting buried by people whose questions and ideas have been already addressed by my earlier posts.
You can list any combination of random items and ask "how about these things?" but what you should be asking is "how can I get the most out of the normal item build, how can I achieve the normal items in a timely manner, and in what scenarios should I adapt the normal item build to something else?". Asking if you can substitute random items that don't at all accomplish the same thing as the items that have been proven ideal over years of gameplay does not in the least bit promote discussion.
It could be that you've found a great scenario where your alternative item build is good in, but if you don't mention the specific context of your item build it doesn't help anyone in 99% of scenarios where the item builds discussed throughout the thread are far more effective.
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United States47024 Posts
MoM and Dispersion don't interact in the way that you think. Because their damage amplification/reduction are in the same calculation bracket, they have no interaction with each other (i.e. the amount of damage added/reduced/reflected is calculated independent of each other). It actually makes Dispersion WORSE because you die faster while reflecting the same amount of damage as if you didn't activate MoM.
Also, all Spectre MoM games in pro play were before MoM got nerfed. The item got way worse even on the heroes who buy it all the time, so for heroes who only got it extremely situationally, it's going to be even less appealing.
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I mean the MOM is for the MS and the W? desolate BKB or BM for protections so you don't get focused or else they get punished also.
I've tried this with my friends its effective against sniper(the sniper troll era)
it helps spec fight earlier can jungle also if you got pressured
downside is you're not really that tanky as what everbody expected
from there you can now build other items to help you be more of a monster
what I did was go MOM then BKB/BM depends on what would be more useful
then I can go SnY/Skadi(depends now if you can really have more time to farm for skadi or go sny if you know you have to fight)
HoT of course
Rad if you still want it or AC(for me AC is better)
then you can just remove MOM later and get something that you feel is needed
weird build
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United States47024 Posts
On September 12 2015 18:40 wxyLkz wrote:
I've tried this with my friends its effective against sniper(the sniper troll era)
Yeah that was before MoM's MS boost got gutted. MoM was kinda ok on a ton of heroes pre-6.84 because the item itself was that good, even if the hero itself didn't use MoM that well.
That's simply not true anymore after the nerf.
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On September 12 2015 18:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2015 18:40 wxyLkz wrote:
I've tried this with my friends its effective against sniper(the sniper troll era) Yeah that was before MoM's MS boost got gutted. MoM was kinda ok on a ton of heroes pre-6.84 because the item itself was that good, even if the hero itself didn't use MoM that well. That's simply not true anymore after the nerf.
can you please explain the nerf with MOM
and thnx with the info about MOM and Disperse
though I was using MOM for the MS but I thought the dmg amplification affects it
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SoCal8910 Posts
if you want more movement speed, you can pick up a yasha for the same cost and your illusions will benefit from the item as well
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i don't think mom has ever been primarily a fighting item, i've always thought of it as something you buy to rice the jungle when most of the space you have consists of the jungle. the item's just way too risky to activate in early skirmishes unless you know for sure nobody's hiding behind the guy you're running down
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SoCal8910 Posts
On September 13 2015 00:23 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
i don't think mom has ever been primarily a fighting item, i've always thought of it as something you buy to rice the jungle when most of the space you have consists of the jungle. the item's just way too risky to activate in early skirmishes unless you know for sure nobody's hiding behind the guy you're running down
Idk if it's still true in this patch, but last patch it was the single most efficient dps item for its cost and was definitely a fighting item on multiple popular heroes.
That said, after the nerf it isn't as effective when compared to other damage items in a fight. I think that in the current patch, youre right mom is more of a farming item with lifesteal than a fighting item..and as long as you don't activate it in a risky fight you're ok.
But there are definitely better items to pick up right now unless you're a void where you want that for chrono.
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What should your buildup usually be usually on spectre? PMS, boots, straight into radiance asap? Or would getting treads and/or some other items generally be considered worth it because they'd accelerate spectre's farm toward the radiance?
I've generally been building straight into radiance whenever I can since spec is just an awful hero to pick if you can't go straight into radiance anyway, but recently I've been wondering whether getting the cheap intermediate items would actually be worth it in order to arrive at the radiance faster (or around the same time in the end, but more safely).
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On September 13 2015 02:33 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2015 00:23 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
i don't think mom has ever been primarily a fighting item, i've always thought of it as something you buy to rice the jungle when most of the space you have consists of the jungle. the item's just way too risky to activate in early skirmishes unless you know for sure nobody's hiding behind the guy you're running down Idk if it's still true in this patch, but last patch it was the single most efficient dps item for its cost and was definitely a fighting item on multiple popular heroes.
this is a pretty questionable statement... if you're talking about absolute dps when able to hit someone on attack cd then it hasn't changed (only the ms has) and if you're talking about situational dps (i.e. dps dependent on your ability to hit your target), then well it's situational... sometimes a basher, diffusal, or even bkb will be better for your ability to actually output your dps
and i was talking about mainly spectre, but even on the heroes it was popular on, jugg and void, it was just as much a farming item as it was a fighting item.
like if you want an item to assist with gap closing on spec diffusal is the much safer choice, and if you're getting mom before radiance, as i've said, it's primarily for farming, not fighting. you aren't going to haunt into fights you wouldnt otherwise have haunted into just because you have a mom, and you aren't ever going to go out of your way to look for kills without haunt anyhow.
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On September 13 2015 04:36 Aerisky wrote:
What should your buildup usually be usually on spectre? PMS, boots, straight into radiance asap? Or would getting treads and/or some other items generally be considered worth it because they'd accelerate spectre's farm toward the radiance?
I've generally been building straight into radiance whenever I can since spec is just an awful hero to pick if you can't go straight into radiance anyway, but recently I've been wondering whether getting the cheap intermediate items would actually be worth it in order to arrive at the radiance faster (or around the same time in the end, but more safely).
quelling pms phase/treads aquila yasha radiance manta; justification and adaptations few pages back
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Ah oops, completely forgot about my post a week ago lol.
Anyway Ver mentioned possible items to help you get to the radiance since yeah it's definitely radiance or bust, but it seems like quelling pms into radiance is ideal if possible and you have complete free-farm. I don't really see the motivation behind aquila--it's an entire 1k gold when dagger isn't that great for farming and the regen isn't too high anyway, and the damage/stats are negligible compared to the item pickups you'll get post-radiance. As for phase/treads, that's another 840/950 gold, and yasha seems huge w/ 2050 gold that could go toward the radiance. I see *maybe* getting the boots upgrade but otherwise it just seems like an awful lot of gold.
I did see the bit on how spec is still really strong with a late radiance so it's okay to be late on that, but it still seems like getting that radiance asap is more important. I dunno.
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The aquila might be skippable, I haven't gotten the chance to play around with that idea too much to be able to say definitively whether or not it's worth skipping. I also haven't figured out which I like better of phase and treads-- both seem to be fine.
I have never enjoyed a game where I tried rushing the Relic on nothing. You already can't farm, and with no items you also can't fight. Boots, Aquila, and Yasha all improve your rate of farming while greatly improving your capacity to fight, such that while yes you don't get Relic any sooner, you aren't getting it much later, and are achieving it with your team in a better position thanks to your early contributions and with the enemy team forced to play either more passively or more grouped-- either way gives you more space to actually use your Radiance to farm.
The few times I have stupid amounts of gold before investing in these cheap items and decide I want to save for a naked Radiance I don't actually get the Relic until much later than I expected due to the space that allowed me to save 2k gold not being present anymore. You can sit on 2k gold for a while and get zoned out of all farming sources and passively make your way to Relic, or you can spend your gold as you earn it on cheap combat-stats items that also accelerate your farm and create your own space to farm and use your Radiance.
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On September 13 2015 06:18 Aerisky wrote:
Ah oops, completely forgot about my post a week ago lol.
Anyway Ver mentioned possible items to help you get to the radiance since yeah it's definitely radiance or bust, but it seems like quelling pms into radiance is ideal if possible and you have complete free-farm. I don't really see the motivation behind aquila--it's an entire 1k gold when dagger isn't that great for farming and the regen isn't too high anyway, and the damage/stats are negligible compared to the item pickups you'll get post-radiance. As for phase/treads, that's another 840/950 gold, and yasha seems huge w/ 2050 gold that could go toward the radiance. I see *maybe* getting the boots upgrade but otherwise it just seems like an awful lot of gold.
I did see the bit on how spec is still really strong with a late radiance so it's okay to be late on that, but it still seems like getting that radiance asap is more important. I dunno.
I feel like aquila is the good one from aquila yasha. According to my experience i cant just farm lane creeps after 20 minutes without any health items on spectre and dagger is actually useful for it's 800-1400 damage on neutrals creeps. It's high mana cost still means that I've got to go back after 2 or three daggers, but if i increase the amount from 2 to 3 or 3 to 4 i've won a lot.
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Please don't get vanguard on this hero. Better off getting pms early in a contested lane and top up with additional items. I even got a casual helm once, +5 armor and +3 regen compared to RoH is pretty sick.
I tried phase but this hero is like impossible to play without getting the additional mana from drums, so drums is a must with phase. I like int tread switching though and the attack speed boost your dps for farming and manfighting.
Bottle is very underrated on spectre considering you will be fighting a lot and useful for regen in contested lane. Bottle is equivalent to very cost efficient hp boost in teamfights too. You will get lots of opportunities to heal when weaving in and out of trees.
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EPT
