EPT[Hero] Spectre - Page 24
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 08 2015 23:57 Buckyman wrote: S&Y on Spectre = "We're getting throned, I'm 400 gold short of a manta and my buyback is on cd." In which case you go full yolo and buy basher. Maim ain't stopping them from finishing off throne. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On September 08 2015 23:48 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: yea when im at risk of dying a lot and the other team is quite early-game focused, i go vanguard when it's the item that will help me never die and sometimes vit booster or drums + cloak. every gank you can dagger tp away from is wasted time for the enemies and surviving is everything the entire purpose of vanguard is to take you later (i.e. help you not lose gold to dying over and over again so you can get your expensive radi). the item sucking lategame isn't really of concern, especially because the types of games where you want it are the games where the enemy team has stacked earlygame (and thus presumably weaker lategame) the vanguard is also nice in that scenario bc it allows you to reasonably jungle with her if you can't lane due to crazy pressure from your enemies. even that much of a sidetrack from radiance from buying the full vanguard (not just the value vit booster or ROH depending on the game) puts you in a position where you can safely jungle, sit on a non-dangerous amount of hp, and should a team fight break out you can haunt and KS to get back on track thanks to the comeback mechanics. | ||
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wxyLkz
210 Posts
BM is to avoid getting focused early on or else they maybe punished but most likely you go to this build if you have no choice and can't farm well its not every game that you can build a radiance or diffu on her easily | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On September 09 2015 03:54 BluemoonSC wrote: the vanguard is also nice in that scenario bc it allows you to reasonably jungle with her if you can't lane due to crazy pressure from your enemies. even that much of a sidetrack from radiance from buying the full vanguard (not just the value vit booster or ROH depending on the game) puts you in a position where you can safely jungle, sit on a non-dangerous amount of hp, and should a team fight break out you can haunt and KS to get back on track thanks to the comeback mechanics. I think its a misconception that the vanguard helps you jungle with her. All it does is make it so jungling doesn't cost you HP, but its still slow as fuck. I'd only really get it if I think it will help me survive ganks or help in teamfights more. I used to think about the jungling aspect, but jungling on Spectre before Radiance is just so incredibly shitty. I think MoM/Aquila/phase or treads is probably better for jungling and arguably fighting. I think if you feel you can't show in a lane due to something like an SS then a MoM will let you farm the woods quicker than a vanguard while keeping you full HP. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On September 11 2015 00:00 wxyLkz wrote: Vanguard = Crimson Guard nice in team fights helps your teams survivability BM is to avoid getting focused early on or else they maybe punished but most likely you go to this build if you have no choice and can't farm well its not every game that you can build a radiance or diffu on her easily It's been said a million times in this thread. If you aren't going radiance on Spectre then you are probably playing the wrong hero, this is true with very very few exceptions, like maybe diffusal/manta vs dusa or an omni. It's still probably shitty though and you probably shouldn't of picked her. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
1. Vanguard is not for staying high hp in the jungle, Vanguard is for when you literally can't leave tower (or even highground) without getting ganked by shit you consistently cannot survive: e.g. a farmed Tinker, Bounty Hunter, Riki, Storm Spirit, etc, heroes who have a combination of farm and skills that prevent your normal surviveability tools from keeping you alive such that you literally can't farm. Crimson Guard is just retarded. 2. Madness I guess is a preference thing, I won't say it's never good, but my experience on the hero is that a Yasha offers much more total function and value for its cost. Yasha improves your capacity to farm, helps you stay in better shape in the jungle (the armour in conjunction with dispersion and damage-block from a PMS does wonders, even in an absence of actual hp regen sources), helps you in fights both aggressively and defensively to a greater degree, and builds into an item you'll keep through your first 6slot. I find the Madness very underwhelming. 3. Your sustain largely comes from the fountain immediately prior to using Haunt, so there's little reason to waste money on any other forms, except in extreme scenarios where you can neither farm nor fight without a full Vanguard. Blademail does not work in this capacity. The only time I ever found a Blademail useful was when I skipped Yasha for a faster Radiance thinking I could get it really early due to having a lot of gold as the laning phase was ending, ended up getting just an average Radiance timing due to some combination of factors, and the enemy PA was already off the ground by that point and I wanted the reflect to dissuade her from preventing me from using my Radiance to pressure her remaining towers. It changed her mind once, and then she got a BKB by the next time we met. Blademail is specific to the enemy's heroes and to a scenario where you cannot individually ult and kill people at the same time that your team is either incapable or unwilling to start a fight for you, or that the fights they are engaging in are exclusively unfavourable for you even after purchasing a Radiance. If you can't afford Radiance, there's no point in having a Blademail, as whoever can kill you will still kill you, or at worse they will merely zone you from your farming area, which since it's delaying your Radiance is a favourable exchange. 4. Fixing Spectre's early game is impossible and isn't your goal: she will always suck in lane, she will always suck in jungle prior to Radiance. Your early goals are: maximize xp, get whatever farm you safely can, turn the gold you do get into cheap items (quelling, PMS, phase/treads, aquila (might be skippable), band of elvinkin (into yasha eventually), farm whatever you can once the laning phase is over from a lane or from the jungle, all the while watching the map and your team, keeping enough mana to TP, and TPing home to regen mana to Haunt and get free gold/xp from easy fights/kills. Those fights give you the farm for Yasha, the levels to max out Dagger, Desolate, and then to work on Dispersion, and eventually some combination of levels, farm, and the threat of your ult should give you the space on the map to afk-farm Radiance, and that's when the game really starts for Spectre. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
there was no "misnomer" involved. i quoted tuna because i wanted to list an additional benefit from being able to stay alive in the kind of scenario that tuna described. of course, vanguard doesn't help you to jungle quickly. it keeps you alive while you farm wherever you can find it bc the enemy team is up your ass. like tuna said, if they're that, early game focused and you can make it to the late game by finding farm/xp where you can and using haunt to KS and leech gold/xp, its worth upgrading your value vit booster/RoH. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
she got nerfed during one of the 6.82x patches and never got rebuffed after gold/xp changes got fixed also she is prone to being silver edged and thus rendered useless | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On September 11 2015 04:59 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: a misnomer is something that is wrongly or misleadingly named Good talk dawg. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On September 11 2015 06:39 BluemoonSC wrote: ya i think a couple people misunderstood some posts (specifically mine) for the sake of wanting to sound like they had something to add to the discussion. there was no "misnomer" involved. i quoted tuna because i wanted to list an additional benefit from being able to stay alive in the kind of scenario that tuna described. of course, vanguard doesn't help you to jungle quickly. it keeps you alive while you farm wherever you can find it bc the enemy team is up your ass. like tuna said, if they're that, early game focused and you can make it to the late game by finding farm/xp where you can and using haunt to KS and leech gold/xp, its worth upgrading your value vit booster/RoH. I don't know why both of you choose to act like cunts. I didn't misinterpet shit. You addede to what he said indicating its also reasonably good for jungling. The reason I said my bit about it not actually being good for farming is because there are outside observers who read this thread and don't comment who might see people saying wrong/dumb shit and then proceed to do that wrong/dumb thing. If you buy a vanguard with one of the main reasons so that you can jungle more efficiently then you are doing it wrong. It's only a minor/slight benefit and more often than not is negligible in terms of increasing your farm. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On September 11 2015 06:45 ChunderBoy wrote: problems with this hero she got nerfed during one of the 6.82x patches and never got rebuffed after gold/xp changes got fixed also she is prone to being silver edged and thus rendered useless Good point Beesa, I forgot about silver edge in regards to her passives and she normally doesn't go bkb. Does manta usage dispel break? Otherwise might need to get a bkb on her which isn't normally a spectre item. Also, how goes finding a fifth? | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On September 11 2015 07:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I don't know why both of you choose to act like cunts. I didn't misinterpet shit. You addede to what he said indicating its also reasonably good for jungling. The reason I said my bit about it not actually being good for farming is because there are outside observers who read this thread and don't comment who might see people saying wrong/dumb shit and then proceed to do that wrong/dumb thing. If you buy a vanguard with one of the main reasons so that you can jungle more efficiently then you are doing it wrong. It's only a minor/slight benefit and more often than not is negligible in terms of increasing your farm. the word i used was "safely" jungle. not "efficiently." e: i also used "reasonably" but in the context of tuna's statement, being in a lane where you can't farm bc they have crazy early game. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On September 11 2015 07:36 the bear jew wrote: Good point Beesa, I forgot about silver edge in regards to her passives and she normally doesn't go bkb. Does manta usage dispel break? Otherwise might need to get a bkb on her which isn't normally a spectre item. Also, how goes finding a fifth? ya u can manta silver edge but thats troublesome too coz sometimes u want to manta for other stuff and silver edge is just too much for spectre to handle she loses dispersion and dies fast (she has not so good stats gains) and her radiance does half the dmg | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
also when i buy vanguard i farm lanes more than jungle because obviously that's preferable; i only farm jungle when all the lanes are pushed out and there's nothing but the jungle. of course the jungle is the least desirable place to farm, but it's better than literally nothing. vanguard is still nice when you're farming jungle vs dangerous heroes because... i mean one game where i bought it i kept getting solo killed by a wex invoker in the jungle; after vanguard i'd actually not die to him or even him +1 | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On September 11 2015 07:54 ChunderBoy wrote: ya u can manta silver edge but thats troublesome too coz sometimes u want to manta for other stuff and silver edge is just too much for spectre to handle she loses dispersion and dies fast (she has not so good stats gains) and her radiance does half the dmg I'll have to watch out for that the next time I play spectre. Or use it myself. Thanks for the heads up. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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