EPT[Hero] Spectre - Page 10
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
| ||
|
govie
9334 Posts
skills : 1110 --> 4111 --> 4412 --> 4443 (i bought maxing dagger first from erasme' post here). basic items : PT + Drums + Diff blade + dust (after i finished DB the invisibility becomes a factor, also slows) + S&Y extended items : Halberd+Manta combo (my fav) or something with a HoT+Butterfly+Refresher, all a bit gamedependant. Just plain slow+speed+stats with some extra mid/lategame utility doesnt feel that bad at all and a halberd can be a lifesaver, a bit wierd but in the trench this build seems to be OP until proven otherwise, haha!  | ||
|
Skyro
United States1823 Posts
| ||
|
DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
| ||
|
Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
| ||
|
DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 25 2014 18:16 Erasme wrote: Well. Did you see ti4 final? Had you drafted a spectre, and maxed desolate first, you wouldve lost in 10min instead of 15. What game are you talking about. | ||
|
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
| ||
|
govie
9334 Posts
The reason why i max dagger over desolate Duck, is because i believe that at lvl 7 its more impactfull (read:more certainty to kill). Our whole chasing party benefits from the slow the dagger provides, with dagger i can secure kills for our team because its a good slow and with maxed desolate i can mostly leech a kill from someone elses slow. I like to be less dependant on teamm8's to enhance the effectivity of using my ultimate. Maxing dagger gives me more influence that the ultimates from lvl7 and onward are not wasted when i have standard PT-movementspeed. E: I think that if i would go phaseboots first i could opt to max desolate at lvl 7, as the boots provide an early speeddifferential between myself and the target. Lets say the enemy lineup has a jungler that i want to catch, then i could opt for a maxed desolate+phaseboots early game,as the desolate+pboots give more solokill- but less teamfightpotential around lvl7. | ||
|
Skyro
United States1823 Posts
Phase vs. Treads I think that's a personal choice. There's merits to both I feel. Personally I go 4-1-1 too though. Your lv1 haunt is going to be so weak regardless so I feel it's better to increase your chances of at least getting 1 kill and a max spectral dagger does that. | ||
|
TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
On July 26 2014 01:49 Skyro wrote: The thing about Halberd is the active is completely nullified by BKB, and you don't really need the passive. It's kind of like Orchid in a sense, you get it more as a snowball semi-carry for a mid-game timing to snowball harder before BKBs come out. It's not really meant to be a hard carry item. Manta gives you a self dispel and some pseudo single-target burst damage, both things that Spectre sorely needs. Manta also speeds up his farm quite a bit if you got Radiance first. It's not worth delaying such an important item. Phase vs. Treads I think that's a personal choice. There's merits to both I feel. Personally I go 4-1-1 too though. Your lv1 haunt is going to be so weak regardless so I feel it's better to increase your chances of at least getting 1 kill and a max spectral dagger does that. I've actually started to do 4-3-0-1 build at level 7, and it gives a huge amount of kill potential, I don't really feel the value point in dispersion is THAT valuable. The teamfight impact you have with 1 level of dispersion in early teamfights is almost non existant imho. If you need to come to teamfights that early i feel you didn't pick the right hero for the draft/teampicks. I also think that radiance rushing is very hard in pubs unless you get a really good duo support. Often supports have no clue how to properly force the offlaner(s) out of the lane. I really like the Phase boots into Drums into Diffusal build because when you hit level 9 and go 4-4-0-1 and you haunt into a small skirmish, you often end up killing all of them with max dagger and desolate. Maybe it's because i'm only 3800 MMR, but in this range, radiance is very hard to farm up quickly, so building smaller fight items makes you snowball and more impactfull early on. If i really get free farm, and the supports know what they are doing, i go radiance, but still i don't feel like your farming increases that much more with it over a diffusal blade. I hav to try the radiance refresher build one day, and maybe it's 2 really strong, but different paths to take, either go radiance refresher, or go drums diffusal manta heart. Ofcourse i didn't take into account the niche blademail builds, but i personally think it's too situational to play that as a standard build in AP. | ||
|
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On July 26 2014 09:39 TechSc2 wrote: I've actually started to do 4-3-0-1 build at level 7, and it gives a huge amount of kill potential, I don't really feel the value point in dispersion is THAT valuable. The teamfight impact you have with 1 level of dispersion in early teamfights is almost non existant imho. If you need to come to teamfights that early i feel you didn't pick the right hero for the draft/teampicks. I also think that radiance rushing is very hard in pubs unless you get a really good duo support. Often supports have no clue how to properly force the offlaner(s) out of the lane. I really like the Phase boots into Drums into Diffusal build because when you hit level 9 and go 4-4-0-1 and you haunt into a small skirmish, you often end up killing all of them with max dagger and desolate. Maybe it's because i'm only 3800 MMR, but in this range, radiance is very hard to farm up quickly, so building smaller fight items makes you snowball and more impactfull early on. If i really get free farm, and the supports know what they are doing, i go radiance, but still i don't feel like your farming increases that much more with it over a diffusal blade. I hav to try the radiance refresher build one day, and maybe it's 2 really strong, but different paths to take, either go radiance refresher, or go drums diffusal manta heart. Ofcourse i didn't take into account the niche blademail builds, but i personally think it's too situational to play that as a standard build in AP. You don't pick one level in dispersion because of its damage, it is minimal, but because of damage absorbtion. On level one it reduces damage on you by 10%, while every other level gives you 4% more. That is the reason it is called the value-point and even without team fights, you are taking less damage while being harassed or when ganked. I can't remember how many times I've survived with dagger going through the trees but leaving with like 10-30 HP and I would be dead without that one point in dispersion. Of course you shouldn't pick it every game, but a lot of the time enemy team will try really hard to shut down Spectre and in the end you will do better with it. | ||
|
govie
9334 Posts
| ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
If you skill dispersion at level 1 you have zero contribution to level 1 fights, including attempted kills on the offlaner. The dagger slow is nontrivial when one or two extra autoattacks can make a kill. Dispersion also gives a lot less damage mitigation in lane than a stout shield, so I'm not sure why you consider them an either-or. Personally I think the value point in dispersion is always going to be worth it unless it's a game where there is absolutely 0 chance of spec dying. 10% EHP is no joke. Even then I think it's still helpful for farming. Boots->radiance spec can lose quite a lot of HP in the jungle. Even with vanguard, the point of going vanguard is to contribute to early fights by being a surprisingly large frontliner. Dispersion makes a large contribution to spectre's bulk, especially with vanguard, so I don't see why you would choose to spend money on tank but skip her tank skill. | ||
|
govie
9334 Posts
| ||
|
lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On July 26 2014 19:35 govie wrote: I thought that stout and dispersion stack in a wierd way. If the stout shield blocks damage, the dispersion effect is alot less. If my assumption is true, it would mean that a skillpoint in dispersion at early levels will have more value in a stoutless itembuild as it blocks & reflects more incomming damage. Rule of thumb: relative effects do not matter early in the game, it's absolute ones where it's at (like nukes, fixed damage mitigation of stout/living armor). Granted, i myself stopped getting dispersion early, since it actually helps to fight more having higher level in desolate and dagger. | ||
|
Skyro
United States1823 Posts
I absolutely despise vanguard on Spectre though. 11/10 times I would go Drums instead for early fighting potential. | ||
|
TechSc2
Netherlands554 Posts
On July 27 2014 02:57 Skyro wrote: Block damage reduction occurs first, then dispersion reflect is calculated. Dispersion early on is really for the damage mitigation aspect, and 10% EHP is still 10% EHP, regardless if you have a block item or not. Or to think of it another way, while each "trigger" of dispersion is less if you blocked some damage, you take more hits/triggers and it still ends up being 10% EHP. I absolutely despise vanguard on Spectre though. 11/10 times I would go Drums instead for early fighting potential. i feel that getting no HP regen items on spectre makes him go to base more often then i care about. A vangaurd doesn't even delay your first big item by much, because it increases your jungling speed alot, and you can be in more small skirmishes because you will always be above 80% hp, and you aare really tanky so ganking you is suddenly so much harder. When i go boots into drums i end up going to base when i went through jungle twice. It's not always save to farm on lane due to how easy you are to gank, so unless you have a team that fights 4v5 constantly and lets you farm lanes all the time, you need regen to sustain jungling as well. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
| ||
|
Skyro
United States1823 Posts
But assuming you do have to jungle a lot why wouldn't you just go Vlads? Better build up, jungles faster than Vanguard, and scales better into the late game. Spectre is really a team fighter (which is why I like drums) so team items can be quite nice on him. And if you need early defense for ganks you can go PMS + casual Vit booster, which can later turn into your heart. I'm just not a fan of Vanguard unless you need to do early tower pushes to tank tower damage (e.g. your team is trying to effectively end the game before the late game ever comes). I've never considered it a jungling/farming item. | ||
|
govie
9334 Posts
On July 27 2014 04:55 TechSc2 wrote: When i go boots into drums i end up going to base when i went through jungle twice. It's not always save to farm on lane due to how easy you are to gank, so unless you have a team that fights 4v5 constantly and lets you farm lanes all the time, you need regen to sustain jungling as well. I dont know about other builds/mmr tiers, but with an early fighting build i try to cycle a spectre from lvl7 and onwards : Ultimate --> fight --> farm/fight back to the fountain trading hp/mana for gold along the way --> buy stuff, mana/heal up and ultimate again. It feels pretty save to trade hp/mana for gold because i just killed some hero's on that part of the map and i'm slowly farming back to the fountain. A 120 second cycle with an early fighting build doesnt need mana/hp regen or lifesteal, it just needs a mana/hppool that big enough to execute the 120second cycle. I dont know if higher skilled players also try to cycle spectre, but for a scrub like me it works pretty well and i dont need lifesteal/mana/hp regen items. | ||
| ||
