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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
300+ extra hp isn't exactly negligible either spectre doesn't usually have issues chasing with dagger (and diffusal) anyway diffusal is pretty good on spec, it's just mediocre compared to other items (primarily radi manta heart refresh) obviously there's a pretty big price difference but it doesn't change teamfights nearly as much as one of the bigger items | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 03 2014 05:43 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On that note I think I'm going to see my way out for a bit.... That's what I do too, but 1 point dispersion at 10. Stats all the way later. The only merit of heart over skadi is the regen. And because spectre is not a life steal hero, most players favour heart just for it. Skadi is always better, but the lack of regen turns people off. Satanic is almost like a late late situational item that there's no point in discussing it. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
rad-refresher absolutely wrecks enemy supports esp if they are paper supports that require good positioning in teamfights to survive such as rubick/CM, double haunt is going to destroy you no matter how good your positioning is. The downside is that your team HAS to clean up after your double haunt or you are just going to become a walking creep with radiance. heart is needed when you know double haunt can't kill the opponent team outright like if they have a lot of cores on their team, either tri core or quad core heroes(in pubs at least) and you have burst damage coming out from your team while you just soak up damage and just burn everyone to death with radiance/dispersion. Also if you survive a gank long enough you would be back to full HP again. Although i've read somewhere that Skadi actually gives more EHP than heart at about 1.6k hp-ish and above but im not sure if its true or not. Speaking of items what do you guys think about urn on spectre? Giving strength, mana regen + a heal/DoT nuke seems to be really good as an early game fighting item if your team needs to fight early and u can soak up alot of charges that you don't even need to go back fountain to heal. | ||
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rebdomine
6040 Posts
On July 03 2014 15:38 Invictus wrote: was a non-believer until i tried rad-refresher in 2 games.. rad-refresher absolutely wrecks enemy supports esp if they are paper supports that require good positioning in teamfights to survive such as rubick/CM, double haunt is going to destroy you no matter how good your positioning is. The downside is that your team HAS to clean up after your double haunt or you are just going to become a walking creep with radiance. heart is needed when you know double haunt can't kill the opponent team outright like if they have a lot of cores on their team, either tri core or quad core heroes(in pubs at least) and you have burst damage coming out from your team while you just soak up damage and just burn everyone to death with radiance/dispersion. Also if you survive a gank long enough you would be back to full HP again. Although i've read somewhere that Skadi actually gives more EHP than heart at about 1.6k hp-ish and above but im not sure if its true or not. Speaking of items what do you guys think about urn on spectre? Giving strength, mana regen + a heal/DoT nuke seems to be really good as an early game fighting item if your team needs to fight early and u can soak up alot of charges that you don't even need to go back fountain to heal. Burning has done Urn Spectre before so it's not unheard of | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On July 03 2014 09:22 DucK- wrote: That's what I do too, but 1 point dispersion at 10. Stats all the way later. The only merit of heart over skadi is the regen. And because spectre is not a life steal hero, most players favour heart just for it. Skadi is always better, but the lack of regen turns people off. Satanic is almost like a late late situational item that there's no point in discussing it. Once you reach ~1000HP, dispersion is going to make you more survivable than stats (+bonus damage) so I don't understand your logic. You really don't need the mana because none of his spells are spammable. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 03 2014 16:33 tauon wrote: Once you reach ~1000HP, dispersion is going to make you more survivable than stats (+bonus damage) so I don't understand your logic. You really don't need the mana because none of his spells are spammable. Umm in case you have not been following, I strongly advocate radiance rfo build. But yea if in going for the cookie cutter route, definitely go dispersion over stats. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 03 2014 15:38 Invictus wrote: was a non-believer until i tried rad-refresher in 2 games.. rad-refresher absolutely wrecks enemy supports esp if they are paper supports that require good positioning in teamfights to survive such as rubick/CM, double haunt is going to destroy you no matter how good your positioning is. The downside is that your team HAS to clean up after your double haunt or you are just going to become a walking creep with radiance. heart is needed when you know double haunt can't kill the opponent team outright like if they have a lot of cores on their team, either tri core or quad core heroes(in pubs at least) and you have burst damage coming out from your team while you just soak up damage and just burn everyone to death with radiance/dispersion. Also if you survive a gank long enough you would be back to full HP again. Although i've read somewhere that Skadi actually gives more EHP than heart at about 1.6k hp-ish and above but im not sure if its true or not. Speaking of items what do you guys think about urn on spectre? Giving strength, mana regen + a heal/DoT nuke seems to be really good as an early game fighting item if your team needs to fight early and u can soak up alot of charges that you don't even need to go back fountain to heal. I either go roh or urn -> radiance depend on how I think the game will be going. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On July 04 2014 01:13 TheYango wrote: If you're going Rad->RF you definitely need the mana from Stats. u rly dont int treads helps a bit. and u have 7 seconds to mana regen with refresher | ||
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Trustworthy-Tony
Tanzania187 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On July 04 2014 01:38 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: What's up with all these luxury concerns about what you're gonna build after Radiance. If you're playing real games, you should be worrying about laning and getting your Radiance in the first place! :D That's concern out of land: how to lane melee carry with no lane presence. Simple: don't pick spectre until it is too late to counter the pick. Supports help too. | ||
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12ozSkilletDota
United States76 Posts
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
On July 04 2014 02:04 12ozSkilletDota wrote: Is there a specific time you look for where you are no longer willing to go radiance? Like if you havent gotten your Relic by 20-25min? Or do you still just suck it up and go deep? in one game i was so shutdown that i had phase+bracer+pms for the longest time. i even sold the bracer to get my 40min radiance. i had 6 items at 55minutes... go figure | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On July 04 2014 02:04 12ozSkilletDota wrote: Is there a specific time you look for where you are no longer willing to go radiance? Like if you havent gotten your Relic by 20-25min? Or do you still just suck it up and go deep? If they have no blink initiators, and are like a 5 core, then maybe at around 30-35 give up on it. But honestly, you probably lost if that's the case. The radiance is great and accelerates your farm quite a lot, it's fight presence is incredible and it stops blink initiators. But if you are ever close to the relic, don't give up on it. If it's like 35 minutes in and you have 1k gold, just start on the diffusal I guess, but honestly at that point you probably lost already and your best bet to get back in is the radiance. I've been getting shitstomped games, get my 30 minute radiance and all of a sudden we are winning teamfights 8k/10k down. also I guess if you are having a real issue with kiting, since diffusal let's you lock people down. Even so, it's still radiance first then just an earlier diffusal before manta/heart. On July 04 2014 02:08 ChunderBoy wrote: in one game i was so shutdown that i had phase+bracer+pms for the longest time. i even sold the bracer to get my 40min radiance. i had 6 items at 55minutes... go figure That's like 1200GPM over 15 minutes lol. 4 items at 5k a piece is about 20k over 15 minutes. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On July 04 2014 02:08 ChunderBoy wrote: in one game i was so shutdown that i had phase+bracer+pms for the longest time. i even sold the bracer to get my 40min radiance. i had 6 items at 55minutes... go figure Jesus, I really hope people don't take posts like this seriously... On July 04 2014 02:04 12ozSkilletDota wrote: Is there a specific time you look for where you are no longer willing to go radiance? Like if you havent gotten your Relic by 20-25min? Or do you still just suck it up and go deep? if you can't get Radiance by minute 30, I advise you not to go for it, but try with some smaller items and try to snowball with ganks and kills. If you are shut down that hard, chances are high that you won't be able to do anything with Radiance at 30-35 minutes, and they won't just sit in their base and let you to come back with farm. When they push, and you just have Boots and Radiance in your inventory, you will be pretty much useless outside of your ultimate. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On July 04 2014 03:11 Ramiz1989 wrote: Jesus, I really hope people don't take posts like this seriously... I doubt anyone can really take a claim on spectre reaching 1300+ gpm after 40 minute phase-half of bracer-pms-radiance seriously. That's it, if those 6 items were phase-radiance+4 luxuries and not phase-radiance-tp-tp-tp-tp /s | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
Radiance+heart is the best combo for spec, regardless what timing it is in the game, well obviously if you played a solo farming game and keep feeding to try to save for that 3800 then you lose the game regardless what you do anyway (because you are simply not a good enough carry player, not because of X build on X carry hero). Regarding refresher....I still think that if you 'needed' that item to win the game then you win the game regardless with whatever big item at that price tag, unless the opponents have something like 3 supportive heroes line up all with hexes so 2x haunt+radi would be ideal since you cant really go near them (but again if thats the case you might as well get a 2nd bkb/heart/bfly). | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On July 04 2014 03:16 BurningSera wrote: it is so damn unfair to read beesa's post....because you need his farming skill to pull off the stuffs he said lol Radiance+heart is the best combo for spec, regardless what timing it is in the game, well obviously if you played a solo farming game and keep feeding to try to save for that 3800 then you lose the game regardless what you do anyway (because you are simply not a good enough carry player, not because of X build on X carry hero). Regarding refresher....I still think that if you 'needed' that item to win the game then you win the game regardless with whatever big item at that price tag, unless the opponents have something like 3 supportive heroes line up all with hexes so 2x haunt+radi would be ideal since you cant really go near them (but again if thats the case you might as well get a 2nd bkb/heart/bfly). For all of his timings, just add a solid 2-4 minutes. Its probably reflective of the skill level you play in relative to his anyways. | ||
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